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Doesn't matter, spray until it's coated, leave for a few minutes, then agitate and wipe off. Once it wipes off clean, you're done with cleaning, just lube and done.
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I use some random copper and lead solvent for when its really nasty but generally I just swab the barrel with a gun oil soaked patch on a stick. The solvent I use needs to be removed quick quickly after use because it can apparently eat away at the barrel slightly. I stopped using brushes because the little metal hairs fall out and get everywhere.
From what I understand the main purpose of cleaning the barrels is to prevent soot build up from attracting and trapping moisture in the barrel, leading to rust. I keep my guns in a dry place and keep em lubed up with number 9 in the barrel, motor oil if it needs it anywhere else, and gun grease on slide rails.
98% of the time I just run about 3-5 patches down the barrel and by patch 5 the patches aren't picking up much. As of yet I have not seen a smokeless powder gun that someone gives half a $@!# about suffer accuracy from lack of cleaning. Its really about keeping the moisture out of the barrel and keeping abrasive particles out of the action.
From what I understand the main purpose of cleaning the barrels is to prevent soot build up from attracting and trapping moisture in the barrel, leading to rust. I keep my guns in a dry place and keep em lubed up with number 9 in the barrel, motor oil if it needs it anywhere else, and gun grease on slide rails.
98% of the time I just run about 3-5 patches down the barrel and by patch 5 the patches aren't picking up much. As of yet I have not seen a smokeless powder gun that someone gives half a $@!# about suffer accuracy from lack of cleaning. Its really about keeping the moisture out of the barrel and keeping abrasive particles out of the action.
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One time after winning a rifle match at the 1838 Rendezvous in Riverton Wyoming...
As I cleaning my Hawken Rifle and talking with some folks...
I took my barrel down to the river , dunked the barrel in the river a few times and poured river water in and out the barrel , till the water ran clear....
I then dried and oiled the barrel and put the rifle together after finishing the rest of it.
The shocked looks on the people's faces was priceless...
Andy
As I cleaning my Hawken Rifle and talking with some folks...
I took my barrel down to the river , dunked the barrel in the river a few times and poured river water in and out the barrel , till the water ran clear....
I then dried and oiled the barrel and put the rifle together after finishing the rest of it.
The shocked looks on the people's faces was priceless...
Andy
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Lots of times I don't need a cleaner so I'll just run a few oiled patches thru the barrel till the patch is clear.
.22's take a bit more effort.
AK I took apart, set on a pet pee pad and sprayed it with Rem Oil and left it overnight. Wiped it off in the morning.
Just spent a few hours lubing all of my handguns - I only shoot a handful regularly so I wanted fresh oil on all the others and just did all of them. Oil on a bore snake and a rag soaked in oil to get the rest of the parts.
Sometimes I remove slides and barrels - mostly just spray or wipe down the internals and put it back together.
Some guns that I shoot get regular cleaning after shooting (like my Ruger MK3 hunter) and others I hardly ever clean (had my G17 a couple years and this last weekend was the first time I've done more then send a bore snake down the barrel)
Also for deep cleans I like an air compressor. It will get cleaner out and oil into places you can't get to without a total disassembly.
.22's take a bit more effort.
AK I took apart, set on a pet pee pad and sprayed it with Rem Oil and left it overnight. Wiped it off in the morning.
Just spent a few hours lubing all of my handguns - I only shoot a handful regularly so I wanted fresh oil on all the others and just did all of them. Oil on a bore snake and a rag soaked in oil to get the rest of the parts.
Sometimes I remove slides and barrels - mostly just spray or wipe down the internals and put it back together.
Some guns that I shoot get regular cleaning after shooting (like my Ruger MK3 hunter) and others I hardly ever clean (had my G17 a couple years and this last weekend was the first time I've done more then send a bore snake down the barrel)
Also for deep cleans I like an air compressor. It will get cleaner out and oil into places you can't get to without a total disassembly.
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Be aware, from poissonal experience, that cleaning the barrel of your .22cal rifle MAY screw up the accuracy for at least as much time as it takes to shoot a fifty-shot box of ammunition.
I know it seems contrary, but that's how it is. Every one of my seven .22cal rifles shoots like a hose after cleaning 'em - so I've learned my lesson and leave them alone, except for the outside, obviously.
I know it seems contrary, but that's how it is. Every one of my seven .22cal rifles shoots like a hose after cleaning 'em - so I've learned my lesson and leave them alone, except for the outside, obviously.
I've seen more barrels than most having owned a barrel manufacturing company and have seen more barrels ruined by poor cleaning practices than burnt out. Yes I said burnt out, barrels normally burn out, not wore out. The hottest peak temperature is in the throat which is eroded away over time by the hot gases with high round count guns and by barrels being annealed due to over temp cycles. Additionally coating a barrel at a temperature above the annealing cycle used during heat treating can anneal or soften the barrel. The lugs and impact areas will be beaten up and rolled hence destroying the barrel.
I have had many barrels sent back to me with 100-140k rounds in them that still shot 2" groups at like 25 yards. Most of these barrel owners had followed our cleaning process. My 45 ACP has about 90-100 k and still clover leafs at 35 yards with loads coming of my 1050.
When folks sent their barrels back in to me to see what was wrong I would question them on their cleaning practices, normally they would be honest and figure out where they went wrong. If I felt like it was an honest mistake I would normally try to give them a nice discount to ease the pain.
In the first post there is a link to a Schuemann Barrels pdf which discusses barrel cleaning. If you want a copy just PM with a email address and I will send it to you.
Barrel Break In
The old story about shoot one clean once, shoot two clean again (etc), in my opinion is old data. The current material that we have to manufacture barrels is a higher quality alloy than when that practice was first developed. There used to be a lot voids in the substrate that needed to be filled so shooting x amount of rounds and cleaning was the practice of slowly filling these voids and stripping off the loose material until the voids are filled and the barrel developed a smooth continuous surface. Once you use chemicals and brushes to clean the bore you really need to reestablish the bore with material that was removed. If you use any chemicals in the bore (I don't recommend it) it can eat away or etch the sulfur in a 416R SS barrel. This will create a larger void and thus require more cleaning. If you don't fully neutralize the chemicals they can continue to etch your barrel while sitting in the safe.
The current 416R SS (the R means lower sulfur content) material is NDT inspected and verified prior to shipment. I never use a brush, period. You can improperly use a hard brush by applying a direction force and can scratch the barrel which in time will create a void.
Rifles
Follow the instructions from your barrel manufacturer, if in question, but being a long range shooter here is what I have discovered. For one I never put any brush down any of my bores. At times during a match where I might have gotten dirt, mud or anything else in my bore I will use either the Otis System or a bore snake (I actually pretrim the brushes back a little). The beauty of these systems is the fact that you can not apply an directional force on the brush and cause damage. Having been to the SHOT Show many, many times I can tell you that the gun cleaning industry is a huge industry, my advice is less is better.
I was attending a high end long range class with a well respected instructor when in the class portion the subject of cold bore shots came up. I questioned whether it was really a cold bore shot or a clean bore shot that effected the desired impact more. I had no proof at the time, just an thought. As with all great instructors, he was willing to test what he knew and verify what he was teaching. At the end of the day we both shot a group at about 600 yards and covered the target. We both had very nice groups, ok his was nicer That night he cleaned his gun with a brush and I didn't touch mine. The next morning we reshot our groups at the same range. My impact did not change and his was several inches off and as he shot it walked back in.
That nigh we repeated the drill only (for the first time ever and only time) I cleaned mine with a brush and he left his alone. The following morning we reshot the groups and his was pretty much right on and mine was very similar to his on the first day and it walked back in as I anticipated. In my opinion this was due to the shinning of the barrel from the bullets. We all agreed there was something to this theory. Is this scientific data? No, nothing more than a simple test. The fact of the matter in my mind is that there is some elements of a cold bore but I believe the impact is effected more from stripping the barrel clean.
What I knew and what I learned over time are very different. There are a lot of great companies making great cleaning products out there. The issue that I have seen is some folks don't fully understand the differences and application of some of them. They heard what to do from a guy that their uncle knew from the bowling alley or something to that nature (true story).
Be aware of what product you are using, what material it was designed for and how to use it properly. I know some F-Class shooters clean the crap out of their barrels and walk it back in during their sight in rounds, they don't care if the barrel only last them x-amount of matches. Everybody has different cleaning needs, no one plan or product works for everybody.
Sooooo my advise is to be aware of multiple practices and pick the one that works best for you.
My personal practice with my rifles is to use the Otis system ( I am in no way affiliated or sponsored by them). I clean the chamber with cotton swabs with a little gun oil (use a nylon brush if you really need to, ie haven't kept up on it) and then pull oil covered patches through the barrel from the chamber end until it is cleaned. Then I apply more oil to the last patch and run it one last time. I wipe the external parts with the clean oil patch. That's it. If you ever feel it necessary to use any solvent in your bore, run oil patches through it until you are positive that you have completely neutralized the solvent.
If this helps then great, if you think it's bs then I'm ok with that too.
Good luck and keep searching for what works best for you.
Mike
I have had many barrels sent back to me with 100-140k rounds in them that still shot 2" groups at like 25 yards. Most of these barrel owners had followed our cleaning process. My 45 ACP has about 90-100 k and still clover leafs at 35 yards with loads coming of my 1050.
When folks sent their barrels back in to me to see what was wrong I would question them on their cleaning practices, normally they would be honest and figure out where they went wrong. If I felt like it was an honest mistake I would normally try to give them a nice discount to ease the pain.
In the first post there is a link to a Schuemann Barrels pdf which discusses barrel cleaning. If you want a copy just PM with a email address and I will send it to you.
Barrel Break In
The old story about shoot one clean once, shoot two clean again (etc), in my opinion is old data. The current material that we have to manufacture barrels is a higher quality alloy than when that practice was first developed. There used to be a lot voids in the substrate that needed to be filled so shooting x amount of rounds and cleaning was the practice of slowly filling these voids and stripping off the loose material until the voids are filled and the barrel developed a smooth continuous surface. Once you use chemicals and brushes to clean the bore you really need to reestablish the bore with material that was removed. If you use any chemicals in the bore (I don't recommend it) it can eat away or etch the sulfur in a 416R SS barrel. This will create a larger void and thus require more cleaning. If you don't fully neutralize the chemicals they can continue to etch your barrel while sitting in the safe.
The current 416R SS (the R means lower sulfur content) material is NDT inspected and verified prior to shipment. I never use a brush, period. You can improperly use a hard brush by applying a direction force and can scratch the barrel which in time will create a void.
Rifles
Follow the instructions from your barrel manufacturer, if in question, but being a long range shooter here is what I have discovered. For one I never put any brush down any of my bores. At times during a match where I might have gotten dirt, mud or anything else in my bore I will use either the Otis System or a bore snake (I actually pretrim the brushes back a little). The beauty of these systems is the fact that you can not apply an directional force on the brush and cause damage. Having been to the SHOT Show many, many times I can tell you that the gun cleaning industry is a huge industry, my advice is less is better.
I was attending a high end long range class with a well respected instructor when in the class portion the subject of cold bore shots came up. I questioned whether it was really a cold bore shot or a clean bore shot that effected the desired impact more. I had no proof at the time, just an thought. As with all great instructors, he was willing to test what he knew and verify what he was teaching. At the end of the day we both shot a group at about 600 yards and covered the target. We both had very nice groups, ok his was nicer
That night he cleaned his gun with a brush and I didn't touch mine. The next morning we reshot our groups at the same range. My impact did not change and his was several inches off and as he shot it walked back in.That nigh we repeated the drill only (for the first time ever and only time) I cleaned mine with a brush and he left his alone. The following morning we reshot the groups and his was pretty much right on and mine was very similar to his on the first day and it walked back in as I anticipated. In my opinion this was due to the shinning of the barrel from the bullets. We all agreed there was something to this theory. Is this scientific data? No, nothing more than a simple test. The fact of the matter in my mind is that there is some elements of a cold bore but I believe the impact is effected more from stripping the barrel clean.
What I knew and what I learned over time are very different. There are a lot of great companies making great cleaning products out there. The issue that I have seen is some folks don't fully understand the differences and application of some of them. They heard what to do from a guy that their uncle knew from the bowling alley or something to that nature (true story).
Be aware of what product you are using, what material it was designed for and how to use it properly. I know some F-Class shooters clean the crap out of their barrels and walk it back in during their sight in rounds, they don't care if the barrel only last them x-amount of matches. Everybody has different cleaning needs, no one plan or product works for everybody.
Sooooo my advise is to be aware of multiple practices and pick the one that works best for you.
My personal practice with my rifles is to use the Otis system ( I am in no way affiliated or sponsored by them). I clean the chamber with cotton swabs with a little gun oil (use a nylon brush if you really need to, ie haven't kept up on it) and then pull oil covered patches through the barrel from the chamber end until it is cleaned. Then I apply more oil to the last patch and run it one last time. I wipe the external parts with the clean oil patch. That's it. If you ever feel it necessary to use any solvent in your bore, run oil patches through it until you are positive that you have completely neutralized the solvent.
If this helps then great, if you think it's bs then I'm ok with that too.
Good luck and keep searching for what works best for you.
Mike
Last Edited:
Just a little information that a friend and I talked about. It's better to use the black, or other colored, nylon bore brushes because they stay there original shape. If you take a piece of bronze or copper wire and bend it that's how it stays. I have put all my metal wire bore brushes it a bag and put them far away. The nylon brushes last longer and clean better.
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So, nylon brushes? (colour irrelevant?)
Woah there, that's massively dependent on the composition of the metal, as you might imagine, the metal used in a brush will be the type that reforms it's original shape.
I'm curious about this, i would have imagined that a copper bore brush would be harsher against any baked on carbon, no? I'm assuming you have worn out/broken some metal brushes?
Yep nylon any color.
The very first post in this thread contains a link to cleaning barrels, even going as far as the composition and metallurgy.
And finally, yes I've seen the metal bore brushes all tore up but use a nylon brush repeatedly for a year and compare it to a new one.
The very first post in this thread contains a link to cleaning barrels, even going as far as the composition and metallurgy.
And finally, yes I've seen the metal bore brushes all tore up but use a nylon brush repeatedly for a year and compare it to a new one.
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I like both nylon and bronze brushes.
With that said....
Some solvents that work well to remove copper fouling...will also "remove" your bronze brush...
Andy
With that said....
Some solvents that work well to remove copper fouling...will also "remove" your bronze brush...
Andy
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I have to say, i think i looked at, and/or considered some nylon brushes some time ago, but still don't seem to have any, i even have those tornado brushes, they seem to work quite well.
I've not had any of the issues you describe with my copper, but i don't think it would be bad to pick up some nylons
These look alright.
I've not had any of the issues you describe with my copper, but i don't think it would be bad to pick up some nylons
These look alright.
Amazon.com : Raiseek 13 Pieces Bristle Gun Cleaning Bore Brush for Rifle Pistol Shotgun .17 .22/5.56MM .30/7.62MM .357/9MM .40 .45 12GA 20GA in Organized Storage Box : Sports & Outdoors
Amazon.com : Raiseek 13 Pieces Bristle Gun Cleaning Bore Brush for Rifle Pistol Shotgun .17 .22/5.56MM .30/7.62MM .357/9MM .40 .45 12GA 20GA in Organized Storage Box : Sports & Outdoors
smile.amazon.com
If you have carbon built up in your bore that needs to be removed here is what I recommend. Again no brushes ever touch my rifles or pistol barrels. I do this if I see some accuracy drop off during a grouping test.
To remove carbon I will use a patch with some JB Bore paste, pull it down the tube using a Otis pull system. It will be black, get a new patch and do it again until the black disappears or goes away quite a bit.
Then I use a clean patch covered in any gun oil (no Solvent) and repeat with a new patch each time until it comes out with a clean patch.
Easy, cheap and will not, as someone said above, cause your barrel to shoot like a hose because it does not strip out the barrel shine.
I have high end bore scopes to confirm this.
To remove carbon I will use a patch with some JB Bore paste, pull it down the tube using a Otis pull system. It will be black, get a new patch and do it again until the black disappears or goes away quite a bit.
Then I use a clean patch covered in any gun oil (no Solvent) and repeat with a new patch each time until it comes out with a clean patch.
Easy, cheap and will not, as someone said above, cause your barrel to shoot like a hose because it does not strip out the barrel shine.
I have high end bore scopes to confirm this.
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I use eezox (a clp) on everything. Have yet to find anything better. You need to let baked on carbon etc soak for a bit before removing.
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Wait...
what???
your supposed to clean them???
what???
your supposed to clean them???
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Here's Jerry Micheulek cleaning an AR-15
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I haven't pushed a bronze bristle brush through any .22 rimfire barrel in over 25 years. Nor will I ever endorse the use of open weave cloth bore snakes that capture unburned powder and glass particles from the primer mix in .22 rimfire ammunition. Not one of my, or my customers .22 rimfire firearms deserve that sort of treatment.
.22 rimfire barrels have a land to groove height of 0.0020 to 0.0025 of an inch. It's my quest to keep that rifling as pristine as possible in my and my customers barrels, so I pull a felt plug through the barrel from the breech to the muzzle using "weed-whacker" line and a synthetic CLP that serves my needs very well:
The Brownells catalog has well over 30 pages of cleaning supplies that will all "work wonders" on firearms bores. They even sell stainless steel .22 caliber bore brushes.
I like to pull a couple of soaked felt plugs through a .22 rimfire bore and let is soak for 15 minutes or so. Then, pull a dry plug through to remove what the solvent loosened up. Using an actual bore scope, I have never seen any bore damage done with this process.
.22 rimfire barrels have a land to groove height of 0.0020 to 0.0025 of an inch. It's my quest to keep that rifling as pristine as possible in my and my customers barrels, so I pull a felt plug through the barrel from the breech to the muzzle using "weed-whacker" line and a synthetic CLP that serves my needs very well:
The Brownells catalog has well over 30 pages of cleaning supplies that will all "work wonders" on firearms bores. They even sell stainless steel .22 caliber bore brushes.
I like to pull a couple of soaked felt plugs through a .22 rimfire bore and let is soak for 15 minutes or so. Then, pull a dry plug through to remove what the solvent loosened up. Using an actual bore scope, I have never seen any bore damage done with this process.
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