Holly ...look what I found on Armslist

[Quartermaster]

Yes but there are pistols with 16" barrels... Like i said you missed the point Just like there are rifles out there with 12" barrels..Non NFA ones.. Just because it looks like something does not make it something in the gun world. But being you know all the laws you already know this.

Doesn't say pistols, does it? Stop being dishonest. The claim was a RIFLE could be converted to a pistol without NFA paperwork, and from the ATF directly that is proven to be a lie. I don't care if a PISTOL, or RECEIVER is turned into a "firearm." That's not the conversation. I'm concerned about bad advice being given to people under the claims of "authority figures."

 

[Who The F R U]

There are exemption's to the NFA .
AR7's are one of them.

 

[Gunnerboy]

Doesn't say pistols, does it? Stop being dishonest. The claim was a RIFLE could be converted to a pistol without NFA paperwork, and from the ATF directly that is proven to be a lie. I don't care if a PISTOL, or RECEIVER is turned into a "firearm." That's not the conversation. I'm concerned about bad advice being given to people under the claims of "authority figures."

You prove where it states that one CANNOT convert a AR7 from pistol to rifle back to pistol...Go ahead ill wait.

 

[Misteramax]

Can you believe this. Plus the guy is here in Washington where that kind of stuff is a no no. Plus I call BS to his claim it was made before 1981. Take a look at the pic and see if you can figure it out. OM efin G.


ARMSLIST - For Sale: Drop In Auto Sear Pre-'81

 

[Kruel J]

We are all friends here guys. Go easy.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

 

[rdb241]

There are exemption's to the NFA .
AR7's are one of them.

show us some proof

 

[Quartermaster]

You prove where it states that one CANNOT convert a AR7 from pistol to rifle back to pistol...Go ahead ill wait.

You're on the wrong page. I never said pistol to rifle was illegal. I disbelieved the claim that a rifle to a pistol was legal. Wish you could go back and read the whole thread, but since name calling, and personal attacks were a cornerstone of the oposition, you've only got half the story.

If you have a Charter Arms Explorer II pistol, you can slap on a rifle barrel and stock, no problem. That's obvious. You can NOT, however take a FACTORY AR-7 RIFLE, and put a pistol barrel and grip on it. Not without NFA paperwork.

I can keep explaining it to you, which is exhausting, but I can't understand it for you. I'm done with this thread.

 

[rdb241]

I sent the guy a message about it being illegal in Washington and this is what he sent me;
Here is the ATF letter that came with my Drop-In-Auto Sear I bought many years ago from the ad in the SHOTGUN NEWS magazine proving that my Pre-'81 AR15 Drop-In-Auto Sear is legal for anyone to buy and own without registration! I don't work for the ATF. I work selling survival gear and work in the medical field.
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[rdb241]

Part 2;

You are wrong. The Pre-'81 Drop-In Auto Sears are legal for any person in the U.S.A. to own. These sears were approved by the ATF rules just as long as these sears were made before the 1981 cut-off date.
The Pre-1981 Drop-In Auto Sears were made to fit the 1970's Colt SP-1 AR15 rifles. Learn to do research about the AR15 rifles. You don't know much about guns do you. Stop thinking with fear and start thinking with truth!
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Here is a photo of an original 1970's Colt SP1 AR15 rifle which is what the Pre-'81 Drop-In-Auto Sears were designed for.
Pre-81 DROP IN AUTO SEAR for AR-15 rifles
There are two types of AR15 Drop-In Auto-Sears (DIAS) available; (1)the legal pre-81 auto sears and (2)the registered auto sear. The pre-81 sears were commonly advertised in Shotgun News for about $125-$200. The registered and transferable ones currently as of (Nov-2003) are priced in the $7500 - $8500 price range. The purpose and function of each type is the same; to convert a semi-automatic AR15 rifle to full automatic. While there is no physical difference between the two both are completely legal to own. The Post dealer sample & Transferable are the ones that are used in the AR15 rifles. The pre-81 sears are often owed by collectors.


THE REGISTERED & TRANSFERABLE DROP-IN AUTO SEAR
This is a an auto sear made before 1986 and registered (tax paid) with the BATF as a machinegun. Currently (Nov-2003) they sell in the $7500 - 8500 price range and require an additional $200 transfer tax to own. This is the only type an individual can use to make an AR15 full auto. To obtain one, an individual (non FFL/SOT) would have to live in a state that permits ownership of full auto firearms and complete a BATF form 4 in duplicate with fingerprints, pictures, and a CLEO certification. The auto sear itself is legally the same as a complete transferable machinegun - it is legal to own and use, provided the paperwork is filed with BATF and you receive an approved form 4. The registered auto sear requires installation of M16 (full auto) fire control parts (trigger, disconnector, selector, hammer, and bolt carrier) in the semi automatic host rifle. If you own a registered DIAS however, possession is permitted as long as you are the legal owner of a registered DIAS. If the DIAS is removed from the rifle, the M16 parts MUST BE REMOVED also. The instant a registered DIAS is removed, any M16 parts in the AR15 will should also be removed. The same principle also applies to barrel length. If you have a short barrel (less than 16") on an AR15 with a registered DIAS installed, you must remove the barrel/upper whenever the DIAS is not in the gun. The registered DIAS can be installed in either a pre or post ban AR15. Because the DIAS makes the rifle full automatic when installed. Just remember, when the registered DIAS is installed, the host gun becomes like a machinegun and is treated as such. The instant the DIAS is removed, the host firearm must revert back to its original semiautomatic state (no F/A parts, no short barrels).
The "pre-81" DIAS were commonly advertised in Shotgun News many years ago for about $125-$200 are a completely different item than a registered DIAS. Prior to 1981 it was legal to make and own these sears without necessarily registering them as machineguns. BATF eventually caught on, and in 1981 issued a ruling that the sears were considered machinegun conversion parts and sears made after 1981 had to be registered (tax paid) and transfer as any other NFA item (these became the registered ones referred to above). BATF grandfathered the unregistered sears made prior to 1981, but sears made after 1981 had to either be registered or are considered unregistered machineguns. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CAN AN INDIVIDUAL LEGALLY USE A PRE-81 DIAS IN AN AR15. Technically, you are allowed to possess an unregistered DIAS which was made prior to 1981, but you cannot possess one if you own an AR15 - it's one or the other, but not both. If you cannot put a pre-81 sear in an AR15 rifle it goes in, about all you can do with them legally is to make cufflinks, earrings, or a very small paperweight. As stated previously, only sears made prior to 1981 are allowed to be unregistered - any sears made after the 1981 ruling must be registered or will be considered by BATF to be unregistered machineguns.
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Photo above showing an old SHOTGUN NEWS magazine advertisement when the Pre-'81 AR15 Drop-In-Auto Sears were sold.
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Here is the ATF letter proving that my Pre-'81 AR15 Drop-In-Auto Sear is legal for anyone to buy and own without registration!

 

[Alexx1401]

show us some proof

Because the U.S. 1934 NFA regulations set the minimum rifle barrel length at 16 inches, Charter Arms made the barrels of the Explorer I rifle and Explorer II pistol non-interchangeable to prevent installing the pistol barrel on the rifle. The AR-7 barrel has an alignment lug that mates a notch in the receiver. The rifle receiver notch and barrel lug are on top; the pistol notch and lug are broader and on the bottom. If a Charter Arms factory-made pistol barrel were installed on a rifle, the extractor on the bolt would be opposite the extractor slot in the barrel, preventing the bolt from closing (plus the front sight would be upside down). Modifying the pistol barrel to fit the rifle, or modifying the rifle receiver to accept the pistol barrel, would be "making a short barrel rifle" legally requiring federal registration on an ATF Form 1 with payment of a $200.00 tax.

Guys as I said this is either a troll with a couple screen names trying to have some fun, or a guy who may actually believe what someone at the local watering hole told him. If a troll he's just baiting you. If the latter, well you are never going to convince him.

 

[Alexx1401]

I sent the guy a message about it being illegal in Washington and this is what he sent me;
Here is the ATF letter that came with my Drop-In-Auto Sear I bought many years ago from the ad in the SHOTGUN NEWS magazine proving that my Pre-'81 AR15 Drop-In-Auto Sear is legal for anyone to buy and own without registration! I don't work for the ATF. I work selling survival gear and work in the medical field.
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Yes they were selling the crap out of these in the days before the BATF had enough. The BATF loves to make up new rules on the fly too. Anyone remember the "Street Sweeper"? Since untold thousands of the sears were made and sold there has got to be a lot of them floating around. Problems are several. For one what are you going to do with one now? The other big one is who wants to be the one the Feds find with one who they decide to hammer? Telling you "we say this was made after cut off" or "We say this along with other stuff is an unregistered weapon................" and so on. Chances are good if someone has or buys one and they don't advertise they have it they could get away with it. Again who wants to be the one who gets caught? Feds often don't care what's "right". If they decide to come after you it's up to you to prove them wrong. They have lots of lawyers on the payroll. You have to pay for your own unless you want the free one they give you. Not to mention they get to find some judge who may think no one should have a gun. Great fun huh?

 

[Boboclown]

That would be entrapment, wouldn't it?

Not an argument I'd want to be in the position of making. There's a few things they can do that could be considered entrapment, still likely works out in their favor anyways.

There are exemption's to the NFA .
AR7's are one of them.
Look that up instead of talking out your butt.

If its transferred as a rifle its a rifle.

 

[FordPrefect]

Enough of this BS. You made a claim. Bring a single shred of EVIDENCE to support your claim.

He gave evidence. That whole "Look it up on google for your self because I'm to lazy to support my own argument" type of evidence

 

[rdb241]

HEY EVERYBODY...............BREAKING NEWS. JUST IN.....


I just got this e-mail from Armslist.com

Armslist.com scam warning

You previously responded to the listing:
"Drop in auto sear pre 1981"
This listing has been flagged as a potential scam by other users
"FAQs for information on how to avoid being scammed.

 

[Alexx1401]

HEY EVERYBODY...............BREAKING NEWS. JUST IN.....


I just got this e-mail from Armslist.com

Armslist.com scam warning

You previously responded to the listing:
"Drop in auto sear pre 1981"
This listing has been flagged as a potential scam by other users
"FAQs for information on how to avoid being scammed.

Someone there should be wondering about the same idiot trying to sell that Ruger in WA saying it does not need to be transferred.
I look at stuff like this as right up there with the Prince over seas needed someone to help him get his money out of the country. Hard to feel sorry for the people who fall for it.

 

[Citizen762]

looks like armslist has much better oversight than fleabay. There was a seller out of Encino, CA last year on fleabay selling M16 auto sears for months, calling them "bolt flippers" Looked like he sold quite a few as well !

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Don't bother - I am sure anything that this guy has for sale doesn't even exist, at least not in his possession anyway. Just a scam to get your money.

The guy probably doesn't even live in Washington state, maybe not even the USA

The sure tip-off is that payment is by Western Union only. That way, once sent, the funds are irretrievable. You can't stop payment and you can't get a refund. He will NEVER ship the item. If you talk to him he will have a reason why it has to be shipped, and you can't come and see it, or take delivery in person. This scam is very popular with cars on Craigslist. The story usually is that a vehicle is offered at a ridiculously low price, but you can't come see or take delivery in person because the seller is in the military and stationed 1000+ miles from where the ad was placed. They will offer to ship it to you for free. The car doesn't exist and you'll never see any of your money again once it is sent.

 

[Alexx1401]

looks like armslist has much better oversight than fleabay. There was a seller out of Encino, CA last year on fleabay selling M16 auto sears for months, calling them "bolt flippers" Looked like he sold quite a few as well !

Well again this is the kind of thing that reminds me of the prince who needs your bank account info to get his cash. People who fall for it are hard to feel sorry for. If the guy on Ebay was selling for that long he may well have been selling DIAS. If he was taking PayPal he would have had to be sending something to the buyers or PP would have just taken the money back. If they were DIAS it's the buyers who are at huge risk. This is just like the people who buy stuff to make a suppressor with no intention of doing it legally. Easy to do. Wise? Well they're playing with fire.

 

[EPS]

I just clicked on it and it came back Just Says the community has spoken and this post is labeled a scam didn't show anything else