The 2 CRS guys on trial by ATF were found guilty

[RX-79G]

I wonder if the owner of NWF would like to host a downloadable image file template for cutting an autosear like the one this guy was selling?

I would bet not.

 

[Stomper]

Yeah it looked like it was laser etched stainless sheet metal. Apparently it came out in the trial that they didn't recovery any that were cut out. When the ATF tried to cut them out they didn't work. They didn't want people to easily be able to cut them out (he told the laser company not to put tabs in). The fact they didn't reply to people who asked about cutting them out was implied as an admission of guilt.

Basically, they are convicted for selling some art work that was non-functional idea of making a machine gun out of an ar-15. Intent even if not carried out makes you guilty. It should be a lesson to anyone doing anything on the fringe of legalities or even mocking legalities that a jury of your peers will convict you.

I am looking forward to the Lawyers discussing the case as I don't understand how the jury convicted them on this. I am also curious to see about an appeal.

Juries are drawn from the population at large…. now consider the average IQ and gullibility of todays population.

Too bad I wasn't on that jury, the prosecution would've gotten WRECKED during jury deliberation.

 

[Stomper]

You watched that entire video? Stronger man than me. I got tired of thinking maybe that dude wanted to go to jail.

Well, at least I now know Eddie Murphy did NOT make up that bit about "Aunt Bunny".


Goonie Goo-Goo!!

 

[RVTECH]

While I believe Hoover was 'railroaded' in this I can't help but believe he brought much of it on himself.

Personally I do not 'identify' with him in any manner as a member of the 'gun community' and not a very productive member either. To me he seems like a 'gadfly', someone just 'pushing buttons' and not doing the gun community any service as a whole.

That being said I think he chose the 'wrong hill to die on' but hope there will be a semi positive outcome for him nonetheless.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

While I believe Hoover was 'railroaded' in this I can't help but believe he brought much of it on himself.

Personally I do not 'identify' with him in any manner as a member of the 'gun community' and not a very productive member either. To me he seems like a 'gadfly', someone just 'pushing buttons' and not doing the gun community any service as a whole.

That being said I think he chose the 'wrong hill to die on' but hope there will be a semi positive outcome for him nonetheless.

Or at least the wrong way to die on the hill he picked

 

[The Heretic]

Juries are drawn from the population at large…. now consider the average IQ and gullibility of todays population.

Especially that part of the population which allows themselves to be chosen, and those whom lawyers choose/exclude thru voir dire.

 

[Yarome]

Especially that part of the population which allows themselves to be chosen, and those whom lawyers choose/exclude thru voir dire.

That's what's always scared me about a "jury of my peers". You mean... trust your fate to the only folks that weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty?? Or... the type of personalities that willingly desire to have power over other peoples lives or... have an agenda??

To be fair, I can kind of see how an otherwise decent person might get railroaded into it. I once got a bit nervous when it got down to the last 30 people and the attorneys Q&A phase. All I can imagine is I somehow fit some demographic profile they were looking for and got kept around longer than usual, but all it took was raising my hand once and giving a "creative" answer that seemed to salvage the remainder of my day.

Kind of like politicians. The ones that would really do an excellent job for the people are wise enough to not want the job. Those that seek it are typically the dregs that do more harm than good.

Exceptions exist, but all too few to enact meaningful and dramatic changes.

I'm sure the jury was also presented with some of Matt's videos. How he presents himself, I'm sure, didn't do him any favors in the juror's eyes either.

All told though, he's getting railroaded, IMHO and hope he doesn't get buried by the prevailing political agenda.

 

[RX-79G]

That's what's always scared me about a "jury of my peers". You mean... trust your fate to the only folks that weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty?? Or... the type of personalities that willingly desire to have power over other peoples lives or... have an agenda??

I guess I'm stupid because I agreed to do my civil duty.

Americans are such slackers.

 

[MatthewDB]

Very true! With most people so keen on mil-spec BGC's I would imagine there really aren't many folks that would even be able to use it. It makes you wonder if there really haven't been reported cases of people creating parts from those cards because they realized too late it won't work in their AR's, anyway(?)

These two, on the other hand, require the military BGC. I'm betting in the days of widely available 3D printing, there are a lot of the second example running around.

 

[MatthewDB]

I guess I'm stupid because I agreed to do my civil duty.

Americans are such slackers.

I never have understood why people try to get out of it. It's such an important civic duty.

 

[raftman]

I never have understood why people try to get out of it. It's such an important civic duty.

I, for one, have never tried to get out of it, but it seems they just don't want me! Most of the time I get a summons my juror number doesn't get called to show up the courthouse, and when it was, I was in the narrow minority of people that got excused pretty much right off the bat.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

I never have understood why people try to get out of it. It's such an important civic duty.

I can only offer my perspective, but maybe it's because it's not treated like it's an important civic duty. When I went through it in Washington County, there was a lot of lip service paid to what an important part of the process jurors were, but we were actually treated like NPC's that really didn't have an important role and we're just there as window dressing.
But maybe I'm biased because I'm a firm advocate of the fully informed jury act

 

[zomie]

Matt's lawyer discussing the case:

 

[Member 34319]

These two, on the other hand, require the military BGC. I'm betting in the days of widely available 3D printing, there are a lot of the second example running around.

View attachment 1414067 View attachment 1414068

Better delete those pictures. Might get the ATF after you for them. Since pictures of things can now be deemed machine guns!

 

[MatthewDB]

Better delete those pictures. Might get the ATF after you for them. Since pictures of things can now be deemed machine guns!

I live life dangerously. I have MANY sets of shoe laces.

 

[The Heretic]

I live life dangerously. I have MANY sets of shoe laces.

I have some wire coat hangers!

 

[Member 34319]

I have some wire coat hangers!

God help those that own both guns and a 3d printer!!!

Those Feds are likely sitting outside your place as we type!

 

[solv3nt]

Those Feds are likely sitting outside your place as we type!

Keep your dog close.

 

[Member 34319]

Keep your dog close.

While I truly love my dogs, there are both 10, so…

 

[solv3nt]

While I truly love my dogs, there are both 10, so…

The AFT will still shoot your senior citizen pooches.