JavaScript is disabled
Our website requires JavaScript to function properly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser settings before proceeding.

Which one ?

  • Springfield Hellcat Pro

    Votes: 11 36.7%
  • Walther PDP

    Votes: 14 46.7%
  • Beretta APX A1

    Votes: 5 16.7%

  • Total voters
    30
The p365 is far more ergonomic and due to shape is much more concealable. In which is more concealable the p938 loses out mightily. There are more points to snag on the 938. There is a reason I switched. Actually a few.

Concealability, capacity, and safety were why I switched.

That and the safety on the 938 tends to turn itself off in numerous holsters and with the single action trigger it made me nervous.
I carry p938 in Alabama kydex pocket holster. My p365x is too big for that due to its red dot so it goes in an IWB holster. The p938 has a trigger shoe and lighter hammer spring which makes the trigger really good. The p938 is much more comfortable to carry for me due to pocket carry. I've had a couple times where I've had the gun in my hand, released from its holster ready to go and the creepy person didn't even know it was there. So for me the p938 is more comfortable and concealable. I continue to train with the p365x to get to the same level of thoughtless accuracy as the p938 but I'm not there yet.
 
The p365 is far more ergonomic and due to shape is much more concealable. In which is more concealable the p938 loses out mightily. There are more points to snag on the 938. There is a reason I switched. Actually a few.

Concealability, capacity, and safety were why I switched.

That and the safety on the 938 tends to turn itself off in numerous holsters and with the single action trigger it made me nervous.
I am listening to what you are saying. I just don't know if I agree.


Playing around with both images, the 938's footprint is not as large the 365's. If I stack them both up by the muzzle, the 365 goes longer.

Regarding the safety. Never had that issue personally. Maybe that was a lemon. Plus, im a holster with a rigid body fully encapsulating the trigger guard, like kydex, etc. safety being on or off is irrelevant. Nothing is going to pull that trigger unless it clears the holster. Since I normally carry Glocks anyway, I know my 'safety' is my finger on every gun regardless.

People can choose what they want, but I've held both of them and the 938 definitely wins it for me. This is all secondary to better guns though. The Glock 17 is my regular carry pistol. It just doesn't always meet the needs I have for concealment.
 
I think he's said he has a G19 and a 1911. He never said he has shot either of them or any other gun. The level of ignorance his question represents caused me and most others here to assume he had never shot a handgun of any sort, probably never shot any gun at all. After we responded making that assumption, did he immediately say he had a G19 and a 1911 as most people who really did have these two guns and was familiar them would have? Or did he say he already had those two guns in his initial post? No. He dropped owning a G19 into the conversation casually only much beyond our chewing him out about how he needs to actually shoot some guns before making buying decisions about them. Not immediately. And he dropped the 1911 into the conversation even later. And his reasons for his weird choice of guns said nothing about the sorts of things one would mention about the G19 or 1911 if he really was familiar with them. Such as "" I already have a G19 and a 1911, but I find both too big to carry" And either of those would at the least make a good "nightstand" gun, which was one of his stated needs. So I kinda suspect he is lying about owning the G19 and 1911 because he couldn't stand us assuming he was as ignorant as he obviously is.

Another possibility is he does own those two guns but has never fired them or any other handgun. And now he wants to buy something smaller that he will also not shoot immediately. There might be legit reasons for that. He might not have a car that would get him to a range. Or he just may not have time to learn to shoot now but wants to buy all the guns he is likely to need before pending Oregon legislation makes buying a gun impossible for a while, maybe a long while. If the latter, the G19 and a 1911 are excellent first choices.

What suggestions would I make for a handgun repertoire for someone who had little or no shooting experience and wanted to buy a versatile collection right away and learn to shoot them later? Well, he should have at least one semiautomatic and one revolver. And he should have at least one 9mm and one .357/.38sp. And he should have mostly full size and full weight handguns that are easy to learn to shoot well. And at least one, maybe more guns small and light enough to carry concealed. Those are the most popular calibers in semi autos and revolvers respectively . And the ones for which their are the most makes and models. Many people can't shoot .45acp guns of any size because of recoil. And many cannot shoot .357mag, even in full size revolvers. However, you can shoot 38sp in any .357 mag revolver, which gives you about the same power as 9mm. And if you shoot .38sp wadcutters in a full size .357 mag revolver the recoil is about like shooting a .22. So the 357 mag revolver allows the beginner to learn with Mild loads and work his way up to whatever level of recoil he can handle. I'd also suggest choosing among the most popular makes and models. These will usually have after market grips, sights, and holsters available . And more "real" honest videos about the particular gun. Some of his initial repertoire he will find he doesn't like and never uses. If he sticks to widely popular guns it will be easier selling them.. In revolvers stick to Colt, SW, or Ruger.

I'd suggest the new shooter needs at least a .22 rifle and a .22 handgun. Its easiest to learn safe gun handling on a rifle. I'd suggest a Ruger 10/22 semiautomatic rifle for the first rifle, in takedown model if he wants to take it backpacking. For the handgun I would suggest a Ruger Mark IV .22 semiauto. Both are ridiculously affordable for the quality. And way less expensive to shoot than bigger bore guns. They are good for learning on, plinking, small game hunting, and small pest control. .22 revolvers are also great fun, but the good ones cost way more than the equally excellent Ruger semiautos. For the revolver I'd suggest getting a SW 686 with a 6" barrel. This is a great home defense gun and a woods gun. And a gun good for hunting anything up to deer and black bear. The wide range of available grips means it can be made to fit anyone's hand. For a semiautomatic carry gun and a 9mm I'd suggest starting with a Glock 19. That gives you a high capacity low weight gun. I had a G23, the same size as the G19 but in .40. A dream to carry. But I couldnt shoot it well. Turned out I can't shoot any light handgun all that well. (My EDC is a 686 snubby. The under lugged barrel makes it easy for me to shoot enjoyably even with full power .357 mag loads, and I'm good enough to deer hunt with it if I needed to. However, at 36 oz. unloaded, it is heavier than many people want in an EDC. And of course it only holds 6 rounds. But those can be 180gr bear loads.) As for possible guns for CC that are smaller or lighter than a G19 others would need to advise him. Since I can't shoot light guns well I don't buy them.

But what about long guns? Most farmers, for example, will have at least a .22 rifle, A shotgun, and a deer rifle to take care of control of pests from rats and raccoons to birds in the corn to coyotes, bobcats, cougars, and bear after the sheep or goats or cattle.
 
Last Edited:
Meaning without a holster?
None.
I respectfully disagree, @Certaindeaf . I think a double action revolver that fits in a coat pocket can be safely carried there under certain conditions. First, the pocket needs to be deep enough so the revolver isn't going to fall out, even if the person bends over or falls down or is knocked down. Second, the person who sometimes carries a DA revolver in her right coat pocket, for example, should never carry anything else there. If there is a pen in there it could get inside the trigger guard as the gun is being put into the pocket. It would still take a very long specifically oriented pull on the trigger to cause the gun to fire, and its hard to imagine how that could be exerted from outside the pocket. But not impossible. A paper clip could get in the cylinder gap and damage or jam the gun. And if the pocket is dirty with sand or dry leaves that could also jam the gun. Third, the pocket interior needs to be sturdy enough or the gun carrying limited enough so that the pocket lining does not abrade and create lint. Lint could in theory jam a revolver.

The SW revolvers with bobbed or covered hammers are specifically designed so they can not only be carried safely in a coat pocket but fired through the pocket. And many who use revolvers for SD have the hammers bobbed. I value the single action mode too much to modify a revolver thus. But I like the option of dropping a snubby .357 into a coat pocket if needed, even if I can't shoot through the pocket. Its easy to learn to get the gun out of the pocket without the hammer hanging up by covering the hammer with the thumb while drawing gun.

Haven't carried a revolver in a pocket in years. My Oregon clothes don't really have the right kinds of pockets. In my Minnesota days, everyday outdoor winter garb was a heavy parka with deep pockets that sealed with both snaps and velcro on the flaps. kept gun both completely secure and closer to my body temperature than air temp. Good because if you take a gun from -40 to room temperature it becomes wet all over from moisture condensation.
 
Last Edited:
I respectfully disagree, @Certaindeaf . I think a double action revolver that fits in a coat pocket can be safely carried there under certain conditions. First, the pocket needs to be deep enough so the revolver isn't going to fall out, even if the person bends over or falls down or is knocked down. Second, the person who sometimes carries a DA revolver in her right coat pocket, for example, should never carry anything else there. If there is a pen in there it could get inside the trigger guard as the gun is being put into the pocket. It would still take a very long specifically oriented pull on the trigger to cause the gun to fire, and its hard to imagine how that could be exerted from outside the pocket. But not impossible. A paper clip could get in the cylinder gap and damage or jam the gun. And if the pocket is dirty with sand or dry leaves that could also jam the gun. Third, the pocket interior needs to be sturdy enough or the gun carrying limited enough so that the pocket lining does not abrade and create lint. Lint could in theory jam a revolver.

The SW revolvers with bobbed or covered hammers are specifically designed so they can not only be carried safely in a coat pocket but fired through the pocket. And many who use revolvers for SD have the hammers bobbed. I value the single action mode too much to modify a revolver thus. But I like the option of dropping a snubby .357 into a coat pocket if needed, even if I can't shoot through the pocket. Its easy to learn to get the gun out of the pocket without the hammer hanging up by covering the hammer with the thumb while drawing gun.

Haven't carried a revolver in a pocket in years. My Oregon clothes don't really have the right kinds of pockets. In my Minnesota days, everyday outdoor winter garb was a heavy parka with deep pockets that sealed with both snaps and those stick strips on the flaps. kept gun both completely secure and closer to my body temperature than air temp. Good because if you take a gun from -40 to room temperature it becomes wet all over from moisture condensation.
I agree there are handguns suitable for holsterless carry but of the OP's list of three, of which I was responding to, I deem those unsuitable for carrying without a holster.
 
Semiautos, I should say, are generally not considered safe to pocket carry. Instead of the long DA trigger pull of a DA revolver, the guns generally have a short trigger pull, something that could more easily happen from outside the pocket if you bumped into the corner of something or were in heavy brush. For Glocks the "safety" is on the trigger so would be no safety at all. SA Semiautos with safeties would have the problem that safeties might be rubbed from safe to off by the friction of cloth on safety as the person moves around. And not everyone always remembers to make sure the safety is even on when it should be.

The semiauto design I would feel completely comfortable carrying in a pocket is the traditional Colt Government model 1911 or the Colt Commander- that is, guns that have both a real safety located far from the trigger and a grip safety. The full size Government Model would usually be too big to carry in a coat pocket, but the Colt Commander might not be.
 
I am listening to what you are saying. I just don't know if I agree.


Playing around with both images, the 938's footprint is not as large the 365's. If I stack them both up by the muzzle, the 365 goes longer.

Regarding the safety. Never had that issue personally. Maybe that was a lemon. Plus, im a holster with a rigid body fully encapsulating the trigger guard, like kydex, etc. safety being on or off is irrelevant. Nothing is going to pull that trigger unless it clears the holster. Since I normally carry Glocks anyway, I know my 'safety' is my finger on every gun regardless.

People can choose what they want, but I've held both of them and the 938 definitely wins it for me. This is all secondary to better guns though. The Glock 17 is my regular carry pistol. It just doesn't always meet the needs I have for concealment.
you can play with images on the web. I held them and shot them both for thousands of rounds and have carried both for years. 938 is not as good of a carry gun, period. The p365 is very glock like however, it actually fits my hand. I vastly prefer it to offerings from glock in the same size range.

The 938 and p365 are functionally the same size. the differences in dimension are negligible. What comes into play is the actual shape of the gun and the smoother lines for a p365 which I do pocket carry in a holster. I would trust my sigs as much as a glock any day though. Both are going to go bang every time. However, if I carry a full size, I lean towards a west German P220 or p226.
 
Semiautos, I should say, are generally not considered safe to pocket carry. Instead of the long DA trigger pull of a DA revolver, the guns generally have a short trigger pull, something that could more easily happen from outside the pocket if you bumped into the corner of something or were in heavy brush. For Glocks the "safety" is on the trigger so would be no safety at all. SA Semiautos with safeties would have the problem that safeties might be rubbed from safe to off by the friction of cloth on safety as the person moves around. And not everyone always remembers to make sure the safety is even on when it should be.

The semiauto design I would feel completely comfortable carrying in a pocket is the traditional Colt Government model 1911 or the Colt Commander- that is, guns that have both a real safety located far from the trigger and a grip safety. The full size Government Model would usually be too big to carry in a coat pocket, but the Colt Commander might not be.
There are a few double-action only semi autos that I personally would feel quite comfortable carrying in a pocket without a holster. There are lots of DA/SA semi autos, some with de-cockers, some with safeties, etc. etc. My preference would be a true DAO without a safety, be it an internal, external hammer or striker, don't care as long as it's a true DAO where each trigger pull alone will fire the piece, much like a revolver.
 
you can play with images on the web. I held them and shot them both for thousands of rounds and have carried both for years. 938 is not as good of a carry gun, period. The p365 is very glock like however, it actually fits my hand. I vastly prefer it to offerings from glock in the same size range.

The 938 and p365 are functionally the same size. the differences in dimension are negligible. What comes into play is the actual shape of the gun and the smoother lines for a p365 which I do pocket carry in a holster. I would trust my sigs as much as a glock any day though. Both are going to go bang every time. However, if I carry a full size, I lean towards a west German P220 or p226.
I can't argue with your personal experience, that is your experience.

I just also don't have to completely agree with it ;)
 
@Certaindeaf You strike me as a AMT Backup kinda guy. In .45ACP of course. 🤣


Chances are good it won't go off unintentionally with it's long and heavy trigger pull and conversely, the chances are also good of it not firing intentionally with that huge gaping area on the right side of the pistol exposing the trigger linkage.
Truly a lint collector I tell yeah! 🤣
 
There are a few double-action only semi autos that I personally would feel quite comfortable carrying in a pocket without a holster. There are lots of DA/SA semi autos, some with de-cockers, some with safeties, etc. etc. My preference would be a true DAO without a safety, be it an internal, external hammer or striker, don't care as long as it's a true DAO where each trigger pull alone will fire the piece, much like a revolver.
I haven't enough experience with SA/DA semi autos to say whether I would trust any of them for pocket carry or not. I've owned only one DA/SA semiauto, a recently bought CZ P07, and have only handled it and dry fired it (with a snap cap) not actually shot it. I bought it mostly because I want a high cap semiautomatic that is the right size and weight for me to carry concealed that would also be a good suppressor host. I have never felt a need for more than 6 rounds of .357 or 44 (or less) to take care of the occasional home invader, or accidentally interrupted burglar, or wannabe rapist who tried assaulting a woman in the parking lot under my boarding house window. Or to foil the dinner plans of would be predators on my duck flock ranging from dozens of possums, raccoons, and skunks, a couple foxes, and one bear. However, having the State of Oregon try to tell me that I can't have a high capacity semiauto with high capacity mags has made me figure I'd better get one while I can.

In addition, times are changing. Riots can spring up unexpectedly. More home invaders are operating as attacking parties of two, three, or four bad guys rather than just one. Rioters can attack people in residential areas. Might be nice to have an emergency belt with two handguns, A revolver and a high cap semiauto with multiple mags. A pack of more than 6 dogs or coyotes may come after my as yet theoretical sheep. And what if I got attacked by a horde of giant amoebae? I've never seen any giant amoebae except maybe, depending on how you count, a giant yellow slime mold about six feet across. However it didn't attack me. I just watched it and had fun getting it to go where I wanted by dropping oat meal in the right spots.

My home is near MacDonald Forest. We have bears and cougars in our neighborhood. MacDonald Forest people put up signs warning us about the cougars and asking us to report them. Our cougars are well behaved and don't stalk anyone and stay hidden except at night, except for the occasional pair of cubs, and no mom can be expected to have perfect control over her offspring we figure. Our cougars have reduced the deer overpopulation and got rid of the small yapping dogs being left in yards at nights. Cougars? What cougars? We ain't seen no cougars. But we do figure its reassuring to carry even when walking around the neighborhood. Everyone in this neighborhood has guns. If a cougar started stalking anybody we would take care of it ourselves.

When my 07 is in the half cocked mode, the "long heavy DA trigger pull" isnt nearly as long as the DA on a revolver. I don't think I would feel safe carrying this particular DA/SA semiauto in a pocket. However, I wasn't planning on carrying in a pocket. For this kind of gun its way easier to find appropriate holsters than it is to find female clothes with big enough sturdy enough pockets.

I don't know if I would feel comfortable with any DA/SA semi autos or DA only semi autos for pocket carry. What makes the revolver safe for pocket carry without a safety is the combination of the heavy trigger pull and very long trigger pull necessary. Most, maybe all semiautomatics just dont have a very long DA trigger pull compared to a revolver. But I definitely would feel safe pocket carrying a colt commander. It has two safeties in different places, and you can't accidentally fail to engage the grip safety when you pocket it.
 
@Certaindeaf You strike me as a AMT Backup kinda guy. In .45ACP of course. 🤣


Chances are good it won't go off unintentionally with it's long and heavy trigger pull and conversely, the chances are also good of it not firing intentionally with that huge gaping area on the right side of the pistol exposing the trigger linkage.
Truly a lint collector I tell yeah! 🤣
I've had lock blade folding knives fail to have the blade lock because of lint when I carry them clipped inside a pocket.
 
I'm looking to pick up a handgun that will be primarily nightstand gun, but also sometimes conceal carry in a winter jacket. I'm looking for guns that are accurate, have good reviews, and good recoil control. The ones I have it narrowed down to are:
Springfield Hellcat Pro
Walther PDP
Beretta APX A1

feel free to suggest others like these.
I would love to carry a Glock but what stops me is, they fit my hand like a cardboard box.
So I found what fits me by going to large dealers and big box sporting goods stores. Trying everything out!
PS - I have to go back now and find that 45ACP, I wasn't looking for at the time. It fit me like a silk glove and I just cant stop thinking about it.
 
I know some people do not like Glocks since the grip is odd for some people. I have a G17 and G19 both GEN 5 and they shoot quite well. I like the G17 but sometime depending on what I wear I carry the G19 at least in the warmer weather month. But now it has cooled off so I am carry my G17 or sometimes my HK VP9 which I bought new back in 2014 and carried that when I could as my EDC. The nice thing about Glocks is you can used the G17 magazines in your G19. I have only had a chance to rent and shoot Walther PPQ which I guess they not longer made since they released the PDP instead.
 
Last Edited:
Hellcat Pro,

1: has decent holster support and with lightbearing models.
2: magazines are affordable in comparison (365 ex)
3: current springfield has a gear up sale for the hellcat pro where you get (3) 15rnd mags and (2) 17rnd mags
4: https://www.thearmorylife.com/hellcat-20k-rounds-and-counting/ seems to do fine unless you load the rounds in the magazine backwards. By this metric alone it scores better than the 320 did in the MHS trials.

Downside:
It's still a micro carry and only has a 3.7" barrel. People say of all the micros this one feels like your shooting 40sw from a 9mm.
If you got larger hands you might find it to be uncomfortable for actually shooting.


Walther PDP,

1: sleek looking and comfy in hand
2: has acceptable aftermarket support for holsters/mags etc
3: https://www.pewpewtactical.com/walther-pdp-review/ seems it's handled round counts fine outside of running a little dry and operator error induced fat thumbing the mile long slide release.
4: takes glock sights (big bonus)

Downsides:

Mile long slide release so watch your high grip.


Beretta APX/A1,

The chassis system pistol that should have won the MHS contract!

1: you can get it in 3 sizes, full size, centurion (G19 size), compact (G26'ish)
2: chassis system so if you buy one you've bought them all and can exchange between all slides/frames
3: mags are affordable
4:
5: gun shoots fine and you can get aftermarket sights from beretta.
6: they did just release their newer APX A1FS and the price point on the new and old keep it affordable around $300-400. They've also got a newer tactical model and currently beretta has a rebate going on for ALL berettas until end of the year.

Downsides,

Holster and aftermarket for the APX is a little weak. You can still find kydex holsters but you will likely need custom support for anything beyond that. It's optics ready but you'll need to order the optics plates from beretta for your specific optic.


Be advised that none of these have proven long term reliability and durability proven over the years and conflicts like other popular brands.

After trying all 3 options I only kept the APX simply because of its ease of use and the fact that it's basically berettas glock. It just works its not doing anything remarkable and it's affordable.
The hellcat micro at the time of shooting it I came to realize I just don't care for these micro gats. They are really only for those who must carry while in suits or very very covert in no no places. The PDP I had 0 interest in and only noted it felt nice in the hand but I know nobody who has one IRL that brags about it.
The trick is to find a good holster with mod wing and wedge and a sturdy belt oh and lose body fat. You can carry anything!
 
Last Edited:
Follow on double posting to add if it's role is to night stand home defende and seldom carry maybe a quarter of the year.

Look at a PSA rock 5.7.
Inb4 REEEEE 5.7 IS 22MAG AND COSTS A FORTUNE.

No and no.... it's not 10 years ago anymore and if you can afford 10mm JHP you can afford 5.7, same with spicy 45acp.

23+1 on tap and carries like a 1911 but without all the weight. Soft recoil feels like a 22 but shoots so flat and reaches out to ranges you'd require effort with in 9mm or other calibers. Triggers short and soft.

Bash away I don't care but this thing rocks and I'm tired of pretending that we're still in early 2000s. Oh BTW it's got confirmed action if you look at Fort hood shootings and thanks to modern advances in tech it's got good carry rounds. $30 for 40g Vmax at PSA will do sufficient. Check youtube reviews. It has support in form of holsters and lightbearing holsters too. Mags are affordable and work.
 
I found the p365xl much more comfortable to shoot vs a standard hellcat but I guess that's to be expected due to the xl being 3.7" and having a larger grip.
 

Upcoming Events

ARPC Albany Gun Show
Albany, OR
Central Oregon Sportsmen's show
Redmond, OR

New Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top