No SHTF so now what?

[Oathkeeper1775]

The gradual shift (loss) of our liberties has allowed some of us the time to adjust our prorities. While some may be satisfied with a disaster starter kit ($19.99 while they wait for the big one), others are taking advantage of the time being allotted; such as adopting a life-time of learning ideology or revising their list (s) of priorities.

An example may be learning to apply more logic than emotions to various courses of action. To illustrate my point by using some comments about ocean pollution in this thread; logic should be applied to our conclusions. If there are (for example) trillions of gallons of water (aka solvent), in the ocean, ten million gallons of oil will only have the mathematical effect (dynamics) of those attributes. No amount of emotive language or ignorance can change the facts; such as 100% of the population will eventually die to the satisfaction of the tax collectors.

Logic is a much-more valuable asset to survival (before, during, and after) than emotion can ever be; knowing and expecting that we all may take the emotional "exit" off the logical highway at different times.

But, I get the "vibe" from the author that a (he or she) like a lot of people expect to see the SHTF events unfolding in a ubiquitous real time capacity like in a movie with subtitles.

 

[NoFlinch]

If there are (for example) trillions of gallons of water (aka solvent), in the ocean, ten million gallons of oil will only have the mathematical effect (dynamics) of those attributes.
......... a lot of people expect to see the SHTF events unfolding in a ubiquitous real time capacity like in a movie with subtitles.

If there are 43 bazillion-Trillion-million-thousand-hundred gallons of water in the ocean, and only 10,000 gallons of gasoline........no biggie.

Its when those 10,000 become concentrated in, say, 1 million gallons of water, that problems start occurring.

THINGS don't just "dissipate" in the ocean..............Sometimes, they even merge....

AND, because of my hearing loss, to keep the volume down so I don't blow my dog outa' the room, I watch all my movies with subtitles.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

Sure, let us know when the oceans get down to a million gallons of water and 10,000 gallons of gas.

And let us know when this thread isn't all about you?

 

[rick benjamin]

Yeah, NoFlinch!
Stop hoggin the bandwidth!
Apply much more logic to your arguments
And use more better words Too!
and since gasoline is lighter than water, toss a match.
And use more !!!!!
Love
Rick

 

[mjbskwim]

Boy glad i can't see his posts anymore

The gradual shift (loss) of our liberties has allowed some of us the time to adjust our prorities. While some may be satisfied with a disaster starter kit ($19.99 while they wait for the big one), others are taking advantage of the time being allotted; such as adopting a life-time of learning ideology or revising their list (s) of priorities.

An example may be learning to apply more logic than emotions to various courses of action. To illustrate my point by using some comments about ocean pollution in this thread; logic should be applied to our conclusions. If there are (for example) trillions of gallons of water (aka solvent), in the ocean, ten million gallons of oil will only have the mathematical effect (dynamics) of those attributes. No amount of emotive language or ignorance can change the facts; such as 100% of the population will eventually die to the satisfaction of the tax collectors.

Logic is a much-more valuable asset to survival (before, during, and after) than emotion can ever be; knowing and expecting that we all may take the emotional "exit" off the logical highway at different times.

But, I get the "vibe" from the author that a (he or she) like a lot of people expect to see the SHTF events unfolding in a ubiquitous real time capacity like in a movie with subtitles.

No I gotta go find some pot to smoke so I can understand WTF OathKeeper is talking about

 

[NoFlinch]

Sure, let us know when the oceans get down to a million gallons of water and 10,000 gallons of gas.

And let us know when this thread isn't all about you?

Ya, great retort about gallons in the ocean

No thread is about ME......it's just that some folks cant think, and they get left behind in a conversation, and they can only belittle others..........

NOT that you or J. Jimmy are doing that

But, this thread seems to be entering "The Personal Bashing Mode", something I haven't seen in a long time here, but one I would bet the Oath Keepers would defend to the death.....

 

[Just Jim]

No SHTF so now what... that's what the thread was about.

 

[erudne]

This actually applies to the topic; it's from 1963 and I have a vague memory of it from that time. Obama's policies are lifted directly from this list:
http://www.tldm.org/News7/CommunismInAmerica.htm

Communism's 45 goals to destroy the United States...
On Jan. 10, 1963, Congressman Albert S. Herlong Jr. of Florida read a list of 45 Communist goals into the Congressional Record. The list was derived from researcher Cleon Skousen's book "The Naked Communist." These principles are well worth revisiting today in order to gain insights into the thinking and strategies of much of our so-called liberal elite:

1. U.S. should accept coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. should be willing to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war. [Note: These encapsulate the Kennan Doctrine, which advocated for the "containment" of communism. Establishment figures supporting the amoral containment policy at least implicitly worked with the communists in scaring the wits out of the American people concerning atomic war. President Ronald Reagan undid the doctrine when he took an aggressive stand against the Evil Empire by backing freedom fighters from around the world that were struggling against the left-wing communist jackboot. As a result, the Soviet Union and its satellites imploded, a considerable and unexpected setback to the international communist edifice.]

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament by the U.S. would be a demonstration of "moral strength." [Note: The nuclear freeze advocates supported a freeze on American nuclear development only. Rarely were Soviet nukes or those of other nations mentioned in their self-righteous tirades. The same advocates now call for reducing American military might, claiming that there is something immoral about America preserving its military pre-eminence in the world.]

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war. [Note: Today, there are calls to end the embargo on the slave island of Cuba, there were complaints about the embargo against Iraq, and the U.S., not Saddam Hussein, was blamed for the suffering of the Iraqi people. Would they have advocated for free trade with Hitler and his National Socialist regime?]

5. Extend long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

​

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination. [Note: Such aid and trade over decades contributed greatly to the left-wing communist liquidation of over 100 million people worldwide, according to the well-documented "Black Book of Communism." This aid and trade marks a shameful chapter in American history. Without the aid and trade, the left-wing international communist behemoth would have imploded on its own rot a lot sooner and umpteen millions would have been saved from poverty, misery, starvation and death.]

7. Grant recognition of Red China and admission of Red China to the U.N. [Note: Not only did President Jimmy Carter fulfill this goal but he also betrayed America's allies in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Iran, Afghanistan, Angola and elsewhere.]

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the Germany question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the U.S. has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. [Note: There are still American intellectuals, and elected members of Congress, who dream of an eventual one world government and who view the U.N., founded by communists such as Alger Hiss, the first secretary-general, as the instrument to bring this about. World government was also the dream of Adolf Hitler and J.V. Stalin. World government was the dream of Osama bin Laden and the 9/11 hijackers.]

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party. [Note: While the idea of banning any political party runs contrary to notions of American freedom and liberty, notions that are the exact opposite of those held by the left-wing communists themselves, nevertheless these goals sought to undermine the constitutional obligation of Congress to investigate subversion. The weakening of our government's ability to conduct such investigations led to the attack of 9/11.]

13. Do away with loyalty oaths. [Note: It is entirely proper and appropriate for our government to expect employees, paid by the American taxpayer, to take an oath of loyalty.]

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

​

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the U.S. [Note: In his book, "Reagan's War," Peter Schweizer demonstrates the astonishing degree to which communists and communist sympathizers have penetrated the Democratic Party. In his book, Schweizer writes about the presidential election of 1979.]

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions, by claiming their activities violate civil rights. [Note: This strategy goes back to the founding of the American Civil Liberties Union by Fabian Socialists Roger Baldwin and John Dewey and Communists William Z. Foster and Elizabeth Gurley Flynn among others.]

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for Socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations that are under Communist attack. [Note:The success of these goals, from a communist perspective, is obvious. Is there any doubt this is so?]

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV & motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all form of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings," substituting shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. " Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio and TV. [Note: This is the Gramscian agenda of the "long march through the institutions" spelled out explicitly: gradual takeover of the "means of communication" and then using those vehicles to debauch the culture and weaken the will of the individual to resist.]

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural and healthy." [Note: Today those few who still have the courage to advocate public morality are denounced and viciously attacked. Most Americans are entirely unwitting regarding the motives behind this agenda.]

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch." [Note: This has been largely accomplished through the communist infiltration of the National Council of Churches, Conservative and Reform Judaism, and the Catholic seminaries.]

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the grounds that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state"

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American founding fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of "the big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over. [Note: Obliterating the American past, with its antecedents in principles of freedom, liberty and private ownership is a major goal of the communists then and now.]

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture – education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand or treat. [Note: The Soviets used to send "social misfits" and those deemed politically incorrect to massive mental institutions called gulags. The Red Chinese call them lao gai. Hitler called them concentration camps.]

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose communist goals. [Note: Psychiatry remains a bulwark of the communist agenda of fostering self-criticism and docility.]

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce. [Note: Done! The sovereign family is the single most powerful obstacle to authoritarian control.]

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents. [Note: Outcome-based education, values clarification or whatever they're calling it this year.]

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special interest groups should rise up and make a "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems. [Note: This describes the dialectical fostering of group consciousness and conflict, which furthers the interests of authoritarianism.]

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally Reservation so the U.S. cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction over nations and individuals alike.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

Right in line with SDS and the Port Huron Statement

 

[erudne]

A current recap of our financial woes:
You really have to wonder how it is that so much is going on all around us yet almost nothing is being reported by the mainstream press. I know it is hard to do, but imagine yourself 20 or 30 years ago, could what is currently happening ever be "slept through" as it is today? Could markets have just snoozed it off as if nothing bad "could" happen?

http://www.jsmineset.com/2015/06/02/did-you-hear-about-this/


Global growth is languishing, corporate revenues too, but CEOs are trying to show they can grow their companies the quick and easy way. Cheap debt is sloshing through the system while yield-hungry investors offer their first-born to earn 5%. And this cheap debt along with vertigo-inducing stock valuations have created the largest M&A boom the US has ever seen, with May setting an all-time record
http://wolfstreet.com/2015/06/02/la...s-crashed-record-m-a-boom-share-buyback-boom/

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

Watching several reliable forums on a closely-related subject, there is a lot of SHTF chatter (to put it in moderate terms).

Dave Hodges just published a very-eerie article on the web-site "thecommonsenseshow.com".

Evidence suggesting that a Walmart is being converted into a political prisoner camp?

 

[rick benjamin]

Consider a low profile be added to your bob?

 

[Just Jim]

This is more what it's going to turn into, pure evil...

http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/201...old-family-member-to-abort-unborn-child.html/

 

[40calruler]

Boy glad i can't see his posts anymore



No I gotta go find some pot to smoke so I can understand WTF OathKeeper is talking about

It does not help.

 

[U201491]

Global population problem may just get fixed the hard way soon. Another of many many things to reignite the not so cold war on the way.

An end to the US monopoly on stealth aircraft?

http://An end to the US monopoly on stealth aircraft?

and


China orders civilian ships adapted for military use: report


http://news.yahoo.com/china-orders-civilian-ships-adapted-military-report-042458207.html

 

[erudne]

The Neighborhood Protection Team
Posted by Defensive Training Group on <broken link removed>
Posted in: Training and Leadership. <broken link removed>
Here's what the deal is going to be in a best case scenario in the typical liberty-minded citizen's world when SHTF.

Four to six well-trained and armed (to one degree or another) people. The term 'Neighborhood Protection Team' (NPT) is what the military calls a 'fire team.' The first people to popularize it that we're aware of are two former Spec Op types, Jack Lawson and Mike Garand, who co-wrote, "A Failure of Civility." We will be reviewing their book here in a later post.

If couples are involved, that can mean up to 3 couples and a relative number of children involved in your NPT, with the children, of course, being 'precious cargo' and something to be protected. If each member of the NPT has a family and there are 6 members, it could be as many as 6 families or 24 people (2 parents; 2 children). That projection is one of the primary reasons the NPT needs to remain small. Extreme case of 24 people is a lot of folks to keep sheltered, fed, healthy and safe. Your work is cut out for you.

So, for now, forget a full 12 person squad; forget a 40 man or better 'platoon strength' organization. Forget squad or platoon drills. It's generally not going to happen. There may be isolated instances of larger, more well-prepared and organized semi-official groups (private 'militias', homogenous prepper communities and so forth), but by and large, initially, at least, that's going to be beyond the pale of reality. At least measured by the indicators we've seen in the training arena. That, coupled with the 'rugged individualist' ready to 'die on his doorstep', provides at least anecdotal support for the assertion.

Certainly, as circumstances develop, small groups will become 'centers of gravity' as they survive and thrive, adapting to new conditions not seen in this country since the 1860's, and subsequently, survivors will find their way to them, asking for sanctuary. Some of these will be quick learning people with needed skills; but it is speculation at best until we're at that point, God forbid.

Bringing this closer to home, you may consider limiting your initial 'NPT' to 4 to 6 people and work with other small groups in your larger neighborhood. This will have several advantages, so long as your several teams have the same objective and can work together. First, command is decentralized, which, when working with Decentralization of strength and command in your neighborhood is going to be keep to keeping the community relatively safe during SHTF scenarios.

Your NPT should be armed with rifles if at all possible. Pistols and shotguns are nice, but, as we know, are extremely range limited. Bottom line is whatever your NPT carries is up to the members, but try to get the best 'bang for your buck' (pun intended).

Your NPT should meet and train on something related to the actual defense of your neighborhood as often as harmonious life will permit. Marksmanship is extremely important; the keystone of the foundation of being able to protect one's family, friends, and neighborhood. However, don't ignore other vital areas:

• PT (Directly impacts marksmanship as well as the ability to move and communicate).
• Map studies.
• Go to www.mytopo.com and get a map made of your area in as large a scale as possible (1:10,000 is a good study scale) and if you can, get an aerial or satellite photograph. Make sure you have MGRS grid lines on the map. Yes, it's going to cost you some cash, but take up a collection from the NPT and spread the 'damage' as you can. Make copies of the maps, or sections thereof, so you don't have to mark on your 'real' map. Never take your marked up copies out with you during the 'real deal'.
• Learn to plot 8 digit grid coordinates (that's what the MGRS grid lines are for, if you don't already know)
• Take TC3 a couple of times.
• Learn how to put a 'mission pack' together.
• Go somewhere you won't be thought of as nutbags and practice moving as a team.
• Practice hand and arm signal communication.
• Learn effective area camouflage – what works in your particular area.
• If money allows, sign up for training with someone who doesn't do 'hoorah' garbage. Moving in a 'stack' and popping of a couple mags into a target 10 meters away looks great on a video, but you want light infantry type training. Most reputable folks will offer basic courses that meet your needs, or, if your situation is very unique, don't usually have a problem adapting the class to fit your circumstances. Talk to them and find out. All they can say is, 'No, thanks!'
• Start to study Situational Leadership. If someone in your group has a lot of experience leading, let them do it. It's not about ego, it's about staying alive.

Once you've reached a level of training that the members are comfortable with everything you are doing and trust each other, you must ensure that you keep the NPT effective without burning them out. Try some exercises putting the normally quiet people in charge and have them run the training session, especially in the tactics area.

If you have several NPT's in a larger neighborhood, great. Coordinate with them, but stay autonomous as long as is necessary. There's no reason to be under a unified commander when performing as a NPT. However, there is a need to network and coordinate activities of each through communication and discussion of the NPT leaders. So long as the NPT leaders all agree on 'Commander's Intent' (keeping the neighborhood safe and stopping attacks), working together toward that end will be fairly difficulty free (aside from the difficulties of daily life without a support network that we enjoy today…).

Something that also works well is decentralized NPT operations, where each team analyzes their own small area of influence and moves about with no set pattern but with set objectives, performing what is called, 'security patrols,' which are designed to find an enemy trying to infiltrate an area.

Back in my day we called it, "Distributed Area Defense." Teams operated in concert but independent of each other in their assigned sectors, all with the leeway to do whatever they believed to be necessary at the time to ensure their area was covered in an effective, random manner.

Think about how that applies to your urban, suburban, semi-rural, or rural 'neighborhood'. Then, formulate a plan. Be choosy on who you bring into your NPT. You want dependability above a warm body.

In the future, more on NPT employment.

Your thoughts?

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

Be choosy on who you bring into your NPT. You want dependability above a warm body. QUOTE]

 

[NSDQ]

Speaking just merely in statistics. All that time prepping would most likely be better spent in some cardio exercise. You'll probably live a much longer and healthier life by embracing daily exercise than banking on a catastrophic event.

 

[erudne]

Speaking just merely in statistics. All that time prepping would most likely be better spent in some cardio exercise. You'll probably live a much longer and healthier life by embracing daily exercise than banking on a catastrophic event.

http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_copybook.htm

 

[Skier]

The problem isn't that there needs to be more room for people to live, but arable land for food to grow, energy for transportation of water, food and goods to the people, not to mention energy to keep people warm in the winter, and so on.

Also, you can't effectively have large numbers of people living in antartica or siberia or most deserts or the tundra areas of Alaska or Canada - so while yes, there are large areas of the earth that are relatively uninhabited, it is generally because those areas are effectively uninhabitable by any significant number of people.

Moreover, you can't just put a person in a 1000 sq. ft. area and say "here you go - this is enough for you". You need arable land to grow food for that person, you need watershed to collect potable water for that person (we are running out of potable water) to drink, and to grow the food for that person.

You are not looking at the big picture if you just look out the window of an airplane and say "look at all that land - we have plenty of room for more people" - it isn't just about land, it is about how many people that land can support.

I am very concerned about rights - but I am also very concerned that my family have enough food, shelter and water to survive.

I understand your point about population, but as an interesting point about just how big the world it, a few years back I calculated that if you took Oregon's size, subtracted out the water area (e.g. lakes, rivers, etc), you could move the entire population of the world into Oregon and give each person personal space about the size of the average 2 car garage, leaving the entire rest of the world unpopulated. This was without any roads or anything, of course, and not a feasible living situation by any means, but it does give some perspective.