Poll: SHTF Comms? What are you using?

[Trapdoor45-70]

Does such a thing exist? How would it know distance? Signal strength depends on a few variables.

Yes, digital ham radio does exist.

Unfortunately, my knowledge is limited to my first post.

So I cannot accurately answer your questions.

One reason I did not invest in digital ham radios was the unique nature of digital communications: either the signal is clear or it is not.

Binary. Ones and zeros.

You either hear the transmission or you do not.

Again, I stress that I do not have experience with this radio type.

However, there seems to be no teasing a reply from the ether, no scratchy fading in and out that you get from analog ham radio from which you may glean a useful message.

And the ability to tease a message from the "ether" makes analog ham radio a very useful tool. Admittedly, far from perfect, but still a viable communication tool.

As much as I value the analog portion of ham radio, I plan to invest in digital ham radios this year.

 

[bumpus]

None, if SHTF involves an EMP then all comms will be unusable.

Not true. If you have your radio handsets in a faraday bag/box/can before the emp or solar flare, they will still work. Most repeaters will be hosed, but some folks have protected their set ups.

 

[Nosferatu]

Not true. If you have your radio handsets in a faraday bag/box/can before the emp or solar flare, they will still work. Most repeaters will be hosed, but some folks have protected their set ups.

Or a pair of cups & string.

 

[Foreverlost]

Yes, digital ham radio does exist.

Unfortunately, my knowledge is limited to my first post.

So I cannot accurately answer your questions.

One reason I did not invest in digital ham radios was the unique nature of digital communications: either the signal is clear or it is not.

Binary. Ones and zeros.

You either hear the transmission or you do not.

Again, I stress that I do not have experience with this radio type.

However, there seems to be no teasing a reply from the ether, no scratchy fading in and out that you get from analog ham radio from which you may glean a useful message.

And the ability to tease a message from the "ether" makes analog ham radio a very useful tool. Admittedly, far from perfect, but still a viable communication tool.

As much as I value the analog portion of ham radio, I plan to invest in digital ham radios this year.

A little info: There is Neanderthal digital and modern digital. Packet is an example of Neanderthal; it has NO error correction. VARA FM is now the de facto "Standard" for digital local FM Emcomm. If Packet has an error the entire message has to be resent. VARA FM has error correction. What VARA FM can send in less than 2 minutes; Packet takes over 1/2 hour.

There is a time and place for different modes of communication. Dig into synchronous comms vs asynchronous comms. SSB and phone FM are examples of symmetrical comms. Someone transmits, someone receives all on the same frequency at the same time period. If not, this is the same as two ships passing in the dark, all is lost. Asymmetrical comms such as modes supported by Winlink will enable data sent by one digital mode to be sent then later received by a different digital mode and stored on a PC for viewing later.

All it takes is practice and $$$$$$,$$$$$$$.$$

Foreverlost,

 

[The Heretic]

A little info: There is Neanderthal digital and modern digital. Packet is an example of Neanderthal; it has NO error correction. VARA FM is now the de facto "Standard" for digital local FM Emcomm. If Packet has an error the entire message has to be resent. VARA FM has error correction. What VARA FM can send in less than 2 minutes; Packet takes over 1/2 hour.

There is a time and place for different modes of communication. Dig into symmetrical comms vs asymmetrical comms. SSB and phone FM are examples of symmetrical comms. Someone transmits, someone receives all on the same frequency at the same time period. If not, this is the same as two ships passing in the dark, all is lost. Asymmetrical comms such as modes supported by Winlink will enable data sent by one digital mode to be sent then later received by a different digital mode and stored on a PC for viewing later.

All it takes is practice and $$$$$$,$$$$$$$.$$

Foreverlost,

If you want "Neanderthal digital" , consider CW keying as a "primitive" digital form of transmission.

In general, "packet" radio can indeed have error correction and checksums - it often (usually) does. Now Amateur radio packet systems might or might not have error correction - AFAIK, most packet protocols for Ham have both error detection and correction.

 

[Bacchus]

I lean on the side of modern cars being more susceptible to EMP. They may have better shielding, but the smaller geometries of the silicon circuits makes them more susceptible, at least according to what I read.

It's been kind of hinted at here, but I think an EMP event is a flash, not a continuous event, so the damage occurs right away if at all. I suppose there could be some ripple effect: a transformer blows, followed by voltage problems on the line, followed by appliances suffering damages; maybe.

The ammo box protection is a good one, especially the way you cleaned off the paint and enhanced the piece-to-piece conductivity. 100% enclosure is critical. If you have room you can further enhance the protection with layers, such as a few layers of foil wrap. However, electrically four layers is one layer unless you electrically insulate each layer from the other.

By far my favorite source back when I was looking at EMP (quite a few years ago):

EMP by Jerry Emmanuelson

Back on topic: I keep a couple handheld (HT) ham radios in my Emp Can, a galvanized steel locking lid "storage can" I got from Home Depot. They come in different sizes, I would guess mine is about 10 gallons. I have a layer of corrugated cardboard on the inside to keep anything inside from touching the can, and then I have individual items inside in their own sealable foil pouches, which are then stuffed into 1-gallon or 2-gallon zip lock boxes for additional insulation between the items. So far I haven't lost anything to EMP, so I guess it works!

 

[Ben B.]

So far I haven't lost anything to EMP, so I guess it works!

Exactly! Scientific method for the undeniable win!

 

[Bacchus]

Maybe ten years ago or so there was a major mass power outage event starting from about Cleveland, Ohio, and then continuing to maybe the Carolinas? Or maybe it was in the reverse direction.

Anyway, the start and end were (very) roughy 1000 miles apart, and the time for the start of the first power outage was maybe four hours before the start of the last outage.

From that I calculated 1000 miles/ four hours = 250 MPH = Speed of Dark!

 

[Flopsweat]

I lean on the side of modern cars being more susceptible to EMP. They may have better shielding, but the smaller geometries of the silicon circuits makes them more susceptible, at least according to what I read.

It's been kind of hinted at here, but I think an EMP event is a flash, not a continuous event, so the damage occurs right away if at all. I suppose there could be some ripple effect: a transformer blows, followed by voltage problems on the line, followed by appliances suffering damages; maybe.

The ammo box protection is a good one, especially the way you cleaned off the paint and enhanced the piece-to-piece conductivity. 100% enclosure is critical. If you have room you can further enhance the protection with layers, such as a few layers of foil wrap. However, electrically four layers is one layer unless you electrically insulate each layer from the other.

By far my favorite source back when I was looking at EMP (quite a few years ago):

EMP by Jerry Emmanuelson

Back on topic: I keep a couple handheld (HT) ham radios in my Emp Can, a galvanized steel locking lid "storage can" I got from Home Depot. They come in different sizes, I would guess mine is about 10 gallons. I have a layer of corrugated cardboard on the inside to keep anything inside from touching the can, and then I have individual items inside in their own sealable foil pouches, which are then stuffed into 1-gallon or 2-gallon zip lock boxes for additional insulation between the items. So far I haven't lost anything to EMP, so I guess it works!

Testing has shown the opposite. Modern cars have performed much better against EMP.

 

[The Heretic]

Testing has shown the opposite. Modern cars have performed much better against EMP.

Current era ICs are indeed more resistant to RFI/EMP/et al. than early era ICs

 

[Bacchus]

Modern cars have performed much better against EMP.

Current era ICs are indeed more resistant to RFI/EMP/et al. than early era ICs.

Oh! Very good, I stand corrected.

That's good news for Mad Max, he can keep on driving, and good news for the rest of us who need to get to the grocery store.

So ... who's doing the testing? It might be fun to read their results.

 

[Flopsweat]

Oh! Very good, I stand corrected.

That's good news for Mad Max, he can keep on driving, and good news for the rest of us who need to get to the grocery store.

So ... who's doing the testing? It might be fun to read their results.

It's linked a page or two back.

 

[The Heretic]

Oh! Very good, I stand corrected.

That's good news for Mad Max, he can keep on driving, and good news for the rest of us who need to get to the grocery store.

So ... who's doing the testing? It might be fun to read their results.

I've done some of the ad-hoc testing.

I was a automobile mech/tech before I went into hi-tech. I remember the first early Bosch EFI systems of the 70s that would go haywire when a driver turned a corner because the turn signal relay was situated next to the EFI system. I remember the Ford Bronco II EFI/EMI systems of the 80s that would require a new electronic module once a year.

Before cars got ICs/etc. the engines needed frequent tuneups, now they don't. I know from my experience in hi-tech that ICs have improved over the decades because they had to.

That doesn't mean they are EMP proof now - just not as vulnerable and less troublesome.

That said, my '97 Dodge with a Cummins will most likely survive any EMP/CME/etc. that you can throw at it.

 

[TNThomas]

About a year ago I had a chat with a man way beyond my years and experience. I mentioned that I am planning on getting into Ham in the near future. A few months ago he passed, and left me all his gear. None of his family were interested, so I jumped at the offer!

 

[bradsteen]

About a year ago I had a chat with a man way beyond my years and experience. I mentioned that I am planning on getting into Ham in the near future. A few months ago he passed, and left me all his gear. None of his family were interested, so I jumped at the offer!

View attachment 1816131

Sorry for your loss, but congrats on scoring that gear!

 

[erikjill]

I see a Yaesu FT857 in that pile of gear. I've got the same radio and I really like it, though it has a lot more features that I can use. Maybe I'll grow into it.
Yaesu discontinued that model and it's a very desirable unit. I see them for sale, used, between $800-$1,000.

 

[arakboss]

 

[Alexx1401]

View attachment 1820335

I have to wonder how many adults have no idea what those are now days?

 

[TNThomas]

I see a Yaesu FT857 in that pile of gear. I've got the same radio and I really like it, though it has a lot more features that I can use. Maybe I'll grow into it.
Yaesu discontinued that model and it's a very desirable unit. I see them for sale, used, between $800-$1,000.

I double checked and thanks for the info! I definitely wont be tossing these. They all were destined for the dump by the family!

 

[Flopsweat]

I double checked and thanks for the info! I definitely wont be tossing these. They all were destined for the dump by the family!

Thousands of dollars worth of equipment.