National News and information on the Vegas Shooting

[rdb241]

PLEASE define "exploding bullets". No such thing available to the civilian market.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I smell a Medical malpractice issue attempting a cover up/blame the shooter and ammo, instead of a failure of the medical community!
As far as any frangable ammo, i find that highly suspect!

 

[bbbass]

Mi dos centavos: could have been varmint bullets, but I don't think he was a reloader, and commercial varmint rounds are expensive compared to mil surplus, etc.

 

[Ura-Ki]

PLEASE define "exploding bullets". No such thing available to the civilian market.

Break out the tin foil here, but there is/was some "experimental 5.56 ammo made in the mid 90s that used a Bi-Metal core that would basically explode on impact, yet not over penetrate, the Mil. Did NOT adopt it as far as I know ( for special ops even) and I dont know who the manufacture is/was, only that it came out of Utah! There was ONE case of a Merc using it on a tango in Iraq, ( and a very quiet trial was conducted over it) but no other cases came forward speciffically relating to this ammo! As far as I know, it was not made in any other caliber!

 

[3MTA3]

Maybe they were referring to frangible bullets, perhaps XM193? I could see how a reporter in their ignorance would equate frangible with explosive and we know which one sensationalizes the best. I'm also certain in their condescending opinion of the typical American they would likely think they wouldn't understand what frangible means.

IMO likely not a hollow point as these are usually referred to "dum dums" or "cop killers".

At least they didn't claim it was teeth from his chainsaw bayonet, so that's a least something...

 

[tac]

I'm not going to post any gruesome and graphic images, never fear, but you can take it to the cleaners that even a .223 FMJ bullet will leave a puckered and very cleanly delineated hole going into the body, and, dependent on where it comes out, and the range at which it has been fired [a velocity thang], the exit hole can be anything from an inch to three or four inches across. My pal Des took a .223 round from about 80 -100m in Afghanistan that took a lump out of his thigh measuring about five by eight inches. It missed his femur, but they amputated anyway as there was no longer any connective musculature. You really do NOT want to know about a head shot.

 

[11Charlie]

I'm not going to post any gruesome and graphic images, never fear, but you can take it to the cleaners that even a .223 FMJ bullet will leave a puckered and very cleanly delineated hole going into the body, and, dependent on where it comes out, and the range at which it has been fired [a velocity thang], the exit hole can be anything from an inch to three or four inches across. My pal Des took a .223 round from about 80 -100m in Afghanistan that took a lump out of his thigh measuring about five by eight inches. It missed his femur, but they amputated anyway as there was no longer any connective musculature. You really do NOT want to know about a head shot.

In the Army they did a demonstration on a ammo can. Hole going in was the size of a pencil. blew the back of the can completely out. If I'm not mistaken it was at 50 yards.

 

[rdb241]

Break out the tin foil here, but there is/was some "experimental 5.56 ammo made in the mid 90s that used a Bi-Metal core that would basically explode on impact, yet not over penetrate, the Mil. Did NOT adopt it as far as I know ( for special ops even) and I dont know who the manufacture is/was, only that it came out of Utah! There was ONE case of a Merc using it on a tango in Iraq, ( and a very quiet trial was conducted over it) but no other cases came forward speciffically relating to this ammo! As far as I know, it was not made in any other caliber!

So if the ammo in question is so hard to get or find. How did he have any? unless it was supplied to him by the people he was involved with to carry out the shooting. He did not act alone.

 

[Lilhigbee]

Lets not get too carried away here. The phrase was a quote from the sister, not the words of the "journalist". As far as I know the sister isn't required to know anything about ammo to get quoted.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Update

Las Vegas Massacre Victim Dies from Her Injuries 2 Years After Being Shot During Attack

Kim Gervais was one of the hundreds injured at the Route 91 Harvest Music Festival in 2017

people.com

Something I didn't know:
""There was scrap metal still in her because he used exploding bullets."

From the article, the sister obviously has no earthly idea about ammunition and their affects. The scrap metal was fragments from a bullet, not exploding bullets!!!! Fer cryin our loud!!!

And then there's this statement to prove it...
""She hurt. Even though she was paralyzed from neck up, she could feel all the pain,""

 

[awshoot]

Lets not get too carried away here. The phrase was a quote from the sister, not the words of the "journalist". As far as I know the sister isn't required to know anything about ammo to get quoted.

But is the reporter required to publish false impressions without any sort of footnote? If journalists are just going to be stenographers, we could skip them and pass around a tape recorder then let google voice or siri or whatever produce a transcript. A whole lot cheaper.

 

[bbbass]

My pal Des took a .223 round from about 80 -100m in Afghanistan

"They" would have us think that all the opforce is armed with AKs.

In the Army they did a demonstration on a ammo can. Hole going in was the size of a pencil. blew the back of the can completely out. If I'm not mistaken it was at 50 yards.

Maybe they should have taken the ammo out first?

Even though she was paralyzed from neck up, she could feel all the pain,""

Hmmmm, musta been a politician...

But is the reporter required to publish false impressions without any sort of footnote? If journalists are just going to be stenographers, we could skip them and pass around a tape recorder then let google voice or siri or whatever produce a transcript. A whole lot cheaper.

Yes please! Return us to the days of "reporters" prior to the rise of "journalism". I don't need any fricken commentary/explanation/analysis/opinion since I am fully capable of doing that for myself!!! Just the facks man...

 

[11Charlie]

Maybe they should have taken the ammo out first?

It was empty

 

[billdeserthills]

So if the ammo in question is so hard to get or find. How did he have any? unless it was supplied to him by the people he was involved with to carry out the shooting. He did not act alone.

The ammo was made by a guy in Mesa, AZ. He was recently charged for selling A/P ammo to the Vegas shooter Mesa man who sold ammo to Vegas shooter asks for trial by judge

 

[rdb241]

The ammo was made by a guy in Mesa, AZ. He was recently charged for selling A/P ammo to the Vegas shooter Mesa man who sold ammo to Vegas shooter asks for trial by judge

Ummmm.....AP ammo does not fragment or "explode". AP rounds are hard and would go straight through a body just leaving the entrance and exit wounds. Have you ever shot any AP ammo. It goes through an 1/8 piece of steel like butter leaving a small hole. Image an AP round through ballistic gel. It will go right on through the entire block leaving no fragments.

 

[tac]

Official document page...

 

[Ura-Ki]

Ummmm.....AP ammo does not fragment or "explode". AP rounds are hard and would go straight through a body just leaving the entrance and exit wounds. Have you ever shot any AP ammo. It goes through an 1/8 piece of steel like butter leaving a small hole. Image an AP round through ballistic gel. It will go right on through the entire block leaving no fragments.

Pretty much the same as M-855 and A-1as well as M-262 on flesh, unless it cartwheels after hitting bone, it exits pretty much the same diameter it went in!

 

[Ura-Ki]

The other factors we dont know is what bullets were fired, barrel length, and twist? M-193 at the outer ranges "he" was shooting to would really stretch their capabilities to the very limits, especially with a faster twist then 1/9, we know they had to be other then 193 as several were found to have hit the fuel tanks at McCarran over 1/2 mile away from the windows "he" was fireing from, 193 wouldnt do much more then chip the paint at that distance!
M-855 might put a dent in the steel, but would be unlikely to punch through, where as A/P might, but in this case, didnt. As long as we accept the evidence as accurate, which I doubt, we may never know!

 

[billdeserthills]

The other factors we dont know is what bullets were fired, barrel length, and twist? M-193 at the outer ranges "he" was shooting to would really stretch their capabilities to the very limits, especially with a faster twist then 1/9, we know they had to be other then 193 as several were found to have hit the fuel tanks at McCarran over 1/2 mile away from the windows "he" was fireing from, 193 wouldnt do much more then chip the paint at that distance!
M-855 might put a dent in the steel, but would be unlikely to punch through, where as A/P might, but in this case, didnt. As long as we accept the evidence as accurate, which I doubt, we may never know!

Every law enforcement group that went through the 'evidence' wrote a different report, so if they don't know or more likely 'won't tell', we won't ever know either

 

[billdeserthills]

Ummmm.....AP ammo does not fragment or "explode". AP rounds are hard and would go straight through a body just leaving the entrance and exit wounds. Have you ever shot any AP ammo. It goes through an 1/8 piece of steel like butter leaving a small hole. Image an AP round through ballistic gel. It will go right on through the entire block leaving no fragments.

I just reported the 'facts' surrounding the conviction of a man who got put in jail for selling ammo without a manufacturing license.

If you don't like the outcome, don't manufacture & sell ammo without a license