Modifying Your EDC

[DirectDrive]

Don't see the problem with handloaded ammo, although not for me.
I would not stuff Chinese fortunes in the hollow points, though.

 

[AK0perator47]

The thing is that ANYTHING can be argued! It's all about what YOU personally feel comfortable with! Look at it this way... by deciding to carry a firearm for self defense or whatever than you have to be prepared for the cause and effect of doing so. It's all irrelevant unless you're put in the situation. And even if you are put in the situation there's no guarantee the outcome or what way you're going to be portrayed. Criminal court is also different from civil court. Best advice ever is... drum roll please!!!!!

Keep your mouth shut when questioned by law enforcement. They're called Miranda Rights for a reason!

2: get insurance BEFOREHAND! And make sure that you don't go the cheap way!

3: get a good lawyer in advance.

4: use reloads if you want.

5: modify to make it better for you. Just don't modify your firearms outside of the law.

6: make sure you know the basic laws of your area and places that you visit!

** mike dropped **

 

[American123]

There's plenty of precedent if you look. Here's a breakdown on 4 cases where it caused problems:

Cases Where Handloads Caused Problems in Court by Mas Ayoob

In reading the sources you provided, the account of the shoot sounded like it was a questionable good shoot to begin with. As much as you may try to save me, I'm very content with my handloaded ammo. It's what I practice with, it's what I carry.

 

[Medic!]

I don't use handloads but then I don't know how to roll my own.
I cant imagine it's impossible to make a good product you can trust.

After all it's not rocket science.










Wait. I don't know? Is it rocket science?

 

[DirectDrive]

It's all irrelevant unless you're put in the situation.

It is relevant because you have to prepare.
Or at least you should.

 

[DuneHopper]

You guys that have a ED C issues there is a blue pill for it...

 

[AK0perator47]

It is relevant because you have to prepare.
Or at least you should.

Relevance of whether or not to modify a firearm and if you are going to be hung out to dry because of doing so. Also as I said; that it can be argued either way. Just like how people are doing so right now in this very thread.

Quoting part of my post without the whole content of my post allows for people to get the wrong information.

That's also why I put the 6 different statements. These statements are things that one is doing in advance. Therefore they are preparing.

Definition of PREPARATION

 

[American123]

I don't use handloads but then I don't know how to roll my own.
I cant imagine it's impossible to make a good product you can trust.

After all it's not rocket science.

Wait. I don't know? Is it rocket science?

The Dillon 550 makes reloading simple enough that anyone who shoots could do it.

 

[American123]

Relevance of whether or not to modify a firearm and if you are going to be hung out to dry because of doing so. Also as I said; that it can be argued either way. Just like how people are doing so right now in this very thread.

Quoting part of my post without the whole content of my post allows for people to get the wrong information.

That's also why I put the 6 different statements. These statements are things that one is doing in advance. Therefore they are preparing.

Definition of PREPARATION

I guess I can just circumvent the handload argument entirely and just bludgeon the person with the EDC, then it won't matter the ammo inside

 

[AK0perator47]

The ammunition inside is part of the same argument as whether or not to make modifications. Upgrade the sights, trigger, blah blah and blah. It's all circumstantial and depends on what they (lawyers) want to portray. If it makes someone feel warm and fuzzy hand loading their own ammunition; then I so let them. If they want their AR to look like this... so be it. The most important things are whether violent force of action was the way to help preserve and protect their lives. And if there was no other way to avoid it. Any lawyer that wants a conviction is going to try and prove that there were other options. I am not saying that they won't use the fact of upgrades done to a firearm as a means of portraying someone as a menace to society. And if you do have a decent lawyer I would hope that they make the prosecution look like an idiot for even suggesting it.

That's why you don't have to talk to law enforcement without your lawyer present. But everyone tries to tell their side and winds up jacking up the case. That even includes talking to the police on scene and they agreed with the shooting, let you go and next thing you know your in front of the judge. The officer is placed on the stand, asked under oath what was said when he/she arrived, they repeat what you said, you get asked under oath if the statements that the officer had just said was true, you response is yes, well because it actually is true that you said it, and next thing you know... bailiff is slapping cuffs on you because either the judge or jury didn't hear it the same way. Just like people that read my earlier post and didn't hear it the same way I said it.

Believe me I am not meaning to be mean by any means. I am just trying to further clarify my points. Trust me I believe that we have too much government and too many people involved in what happens behind closed doors.

 

[SterlingArcher]

At our shop we have a standing cash offer to anyone who can show court documentation that modifications to a firearm used in a defensive shooting were used to prosecute the gun owner.

It just flat out doesn't happen. Now, that being said, I can clearly articulate any modification on my carry guns and how they make the weapon more accurate or controllable, thus safer. I also don't make any cosmetic changes to my carry guns. For example, I wouldn't ever use a Spike's snowflake lower for a defensive AR because I wouldn't want to risk that a potential juror would hone in on that detail should I ever have to smoke someone with it.

 

[Eric in Oregon]

At our shop we have a standing cash offer to anyone who can show court documentation that modifications to a firearm used in a defensive shooting were used to prosecute the gun owner.

Cool story. Bullbubblegum, but still a cool story. If you read this thread there are many citations of cases where a modified gun caused trouble.

 

[American123]

Cool story. Bullbubblegum, but still a cool story. If you read this thread there are many citations of cases where a modified gun caused trouble.

I believe you have established that you don't want to carry reloaded ammunition for multiple reasons you have shared. I believe it has also been well established that this personal choice of not carrying personally reloaded ammo is not a fear that every other individual shares.

 

[SterlingArcher]

Cool story. Bullbubblegum, but still a cool story. If you read this thread there are many citations of cases where a modified gun caused trouble.

Why the sarcasm? There's people talking about handloads, when the original question was about modifications. Am I missing something? I'm addressing the OP regarding modifying a carry firearm. My position is that it's not a thing. Do you think that modifying a defensive firearm will get a person in hot water legally? Show me something to quantify your position, I can't prove a negative. Do you think that it won't? Cool, then we agree.

 

[shibbershabber]

Bottom line seems to be that keeping it stock, without any personalization is the best way to go.

Trigger or reliability work would probably never even be known unless you offered the information up.

Even at that... I would always carry stock.

Its good for ignorant jury/prosecutor perception... more importantly... spending a lot of money on a carry gun, that if used, will end up sitting in an evidence room for several months and be a chore to get back...

I carry as simply as possible... with the understanding that the time I use it in a defensive shooting will be the last time I ever see it. (currently a dead stock Glock 19)

 

[American123]

Why the sarcasm? There's people talking about handloads, when the original question was about modifications. Am I missing something? I'm addressing the OP regarding modifying a carry firearm. My position is that it's not a thing. Do you think that modifying a defensive firearm will get a person in hot water legally? Show me something to quantify your position, I can't prove a negative. Do you think that it won't? Cool, then we agree.

This is one of our newly acquired Oregon members. The recent batch came with a bit of spunk.

 

[Sparky315]

Cool story. Bullbubblegum, but still a cool story. If you read this thread there are many citations of cases where a modified gun caused trouble.

I only saw cases cited where reloaded ammo was a problem- maybe I missed something?

 

[Sparky315]

Of course there is some truth to it. ANYTHING is possible. But how often do you actually hear about it happening and happening to the point that it changes the outcome of the case for the worst? Can you find a case? How about 5 cases...or 10?

There are modifications and then there are MODIFICATIONS. Certainly if you lighten your trigger to two pounds on a carry gun and then ND into a burglar, you're probably going to have some problems in court.

However...and this is just my opinion...I will make any REASONABLE modification to a carry gun that helps improve my odds of survival so that I'm alive to make it to court in the first place. Surviving the gunfight is my first priority.

Accordingly, I will change sights, grips, barrels, even do trigger jobs...again...within reason. I'm also of the opinion that a good attorney can counter most of what might come up in court.

Example:

DA: I see here Mr. Cabo that you lightened your trigger to 4.5 lbs. Clearly this shows you are a blood thirsty murderer.

My Attorney: My client IMPROVED his trigger to help ensure he was better able to hit his target and not hit an innocent party down range. While his trigger is a bit lighter than some, it is still heavier than what comes from the factory of many gun manufacturers...Wilson Combat being one of those that ships their guns with a trigger lighter than 4.5 lbs.

And...and this is the big part...I'm willing to take my chances and accept the outcome. If you are not, then don't do the mod.

Very well said. There are good reasons to modify EDC guns, and good reasons not to. Pick whatever you are comfortable with.

 

[black coffee]

My EDC is stock for another reason, It is expensive to trick it out upgrades. I try to buy a quality firearm that I can use to defend my life that is good out of the box. Spend a little up front and forget about the upgrades.

Plus there is a cost analyst, extra $100s in parts to make the weapon more accurate or effective vs. $100s spent on range time and ammo.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Like many things....
It could be in all how the tale is told...like it or not , at times and places ...
Perception can matter more than the truth.

That said...
Modifying your EDC , makes sense at times...
If you are left handed and you install a lefty friendly safety....
Better sights...
As pointed out in earlier post , a trigger job or action tune up , can result in a gun that is actually safer , because the gun is easier to use...
Kinda like how a car runs better when it is maintained and tuned up....

I also gotta wonder in the case of many mods...if , you don't say anything about a particular mod...will it even be noticed...?

Now I do think that in some locations a case may be made that a firearm of a certain type might be viewed differently than in other locals....again that perception angle.
Which may be something to think about if or when you choose a more visual mod or type of gun.

That said ...
I don't think that one type of gun is more deadly 'cause of a modification , nor because of the type or appearance of a given type of gun. , is more deadly than other guns...but other folks do feel this way and they may make the jury....

Again sad to say perception can mean more to some folks , than the facts staring them in the face.
Andy