Modifying Your EDC

[Medic!]

You obviously are not a reloader and or are someone that doesn't know of the commonness of factory load failures that, respectively, can not happen to a careful reloader.. ie nonexistent flash holes, no powder, etc..

And I don't buy your other premise either.

Run that all past Andy.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Run that all past Andy.

Consider it considered.

 

[American123]

You obviously are not a reloader and or are someone that doesn't know of the commonness of factory load failures that, respectively, can not happen to a careful reloader.. ie nonexistent flash holes, no powder, etc..

And I don't buy your other premise either.

Well, apparently you didn't mind wading into the quagmire that I side stepped. lol. Of all the factory and hand loaded ammunition that I have shot (having shot at this point more hand loaded than factory by a fair margin) all my fail to fires have been factory loaded, even had a squib factory load one time that thankfully I identified at the sound/lack of hole produced by bullet and ramrodded the bullet out without making a kaboom error.

 

[Eric in Oregon]

factory load failures that, respectively, can not happen to a careful reloader

Oh I know you never make any type of mistake, I was talking about other peoples' reloads. Their ammo is less reliable than good quality factory ammo.

And I don't buy your other premise either.

Not my premise. Ayoob has written about it multiple times. Here's the first hit when I googled it for you:

Handloaded Ammunition: Not a Good Idea for Concealed Carry/Self Defense

 

[IOM]

Personally, the only modifications to my carry guns are sights, and that's limited to the use of night sights, if I didn't purchase with them already in place. Otherwise I leave 'em stock. And I use factory, off the shelf ammunition.

I figure it'll be tough enough to get through a justifiable shooting, don't need to give the other side anything to dig into. Just being a greyman, who had to defend himself...

But that's just me...

I concur with the above...

 

[Certaindeaf]

.Not my premise. Ayoob has written about it multiple times. Here's the first hit when I googled it for you:

Handloaded Ammunition: Not a Good Idea for Concealed Carry/Self Defense

Well, I'm not going to click on that fear mongering profiteer's opinion piece, thank you very much.

 

[titsonritz]

Zero concern

 

[American123]

Oh I know you never make any type of mistake, I was talking about other peoples' reloads. Their ammo is less reliable than good quality factory ammo.



Not my premise. Ayoob has written about it multiple times. Here's the first hit when I googled it for you:

Handloaded Ammunition: Not a Good Idea for Concealed Carry/Self Defense

The article references hollow points being a police standard issue ammunition but talks about individual citizens hand loading with hollow points to be problematic in court because they may use it to establish malice.

Clearly that argument is debunked as from what I understand every police force across this nation uses hollow points as standard ammunition. Unless the argument has been validated that every police officer has malice against every individual they shoot at, than a individual citizen using hollow points in their carry piece carries no additional burden of potential guilt.

 

[L84Cabo]

This seems to be a hot button issue.
What do you think about this ?
Is there any truth to it that a prosecutor could come after you as a trigger-happy gun goon if your EDC was found to be modified ?

Of course there is some truth to it. ANYTHING is possible. But how often do you actually hear about it happening and happening to the point that it changes the outcome of the case for the worst? Can you find a case? How about 5 cases...or 10?

There are modifications and then there are MODIFICATIONS. Certainly if you lighten your trigger to two pounds on a carry gun and then ND into a burglar, you're probably going to have some problems in court.

However...and this is just my opinion...I will make any REASONABLE modification to a carry gun that helps improve my odds of survival so that I'm alive to make it to court in the first place. Surviving the gunfight is my first priority.

Accordingly, I will change sights, grips, barrels, even do trigger jobs...again...within reason. I'm also of the opinion that a good attorney can counter most of what might come up in court.

Example:

DA: I see here Mr. Cabo that you lightened your trigger to 4.5 lbs. Clearly this shows you are a blood thirsty murderer.

My Attorney: My client IMPROVED his trigger to help ensure he was better able to hit his target and not hit an innocent party down range. While his trigger is a bit lighter than some, it is still heavier than what comes from the factory of many gun manufacturers...Wilson Combat being one of those that ships their guns with a trigger lighter than 4.5 lbs.

And...and this is the big part...I'm willing to take my chances and accept the outcome. If you are not, then don't do the mod.

 

[Certaindeaf]

They threw Granny Clampett in jail because someone choked to death on a bone while eating her vittles. The prosecution posited that malice was present because she didn't serve store bought chicken fingers like everybody else.

 

[American123]

They threw Granny Clampett in jail because someone choked to death on a bone while eating her vittles. The prosecution posited that malice was present because she didn't serve store bought chicken fingers like everybody else.

 

[Certaindeaf]

The important thing is to use exactly what the cops use because then you can shoot an unarmed person in the back thirty times and get away with it.















not really

 

[Caveman Jim]

I guess the best thing is to have a good shoot from the beginning so the incident isn't referred for prosecution.

So answer me this, if the shoot happens in a predominantly Progressive liberal area say Seattle Olympia do they look up your online activity? Just askin...

 

[Eric in Oregon]

The article references hollow points being a police standard issue ammunition but talks about individual citizens hand loading with hollow points to be problematic in court because they may use it to establish malice.

Read past the first paragraph, it goes into more detail about why hand loads are a problem.

 

[Eric in Oregon]

Well, I'm not going to click on that fear mongering profiteer's opinion piece, thank you very much.

You posted in this thread so you're clearly interested, so I'm not sure why you wouldn't expend such a tiny amount of effort to get more informed.

 

[American123]

Read past the first paragraph, it goes into more detail about why hand loads are a problem.

I read the whole thing, it discusses power residue being a factor in indicating distance in the court proceeding. What I am saying is that I personally am only concerned with my ability to defend myself or a loved one if I feel threatened to such a degree that it is necessary and trying to win a court case before it has even started has the least to do with being convicted than actually making a sound decision and a 'good' shoot when the time may come. As I have experienced more failures with factory ammunition than I have had with the thousands of my own reloads I will rely more on what I have determined to be my more reliable ammunition.

I'm very much ambivalent with you not being comfortable using your own handloads in your defensive carry piece. That is your choice, but it has no bearing on my choice to do so.

 

[Eric in Oregon]

I'm very much ambivalent with you not being comfortable using your own handloads in your defensive carry piece. That is your choice, but it has no bearing on my choice to do so.

That's true, I just hate seeing a defender end up getting put through the ringer for something so easily avoidable. If you have to defend yourself with lethal force you'll very quickly start caring about what the courts think of the evidence so why not think about it now.

 

[Certaindeaf]

You posted in this thread so you're clearly interested, so I'm not sure why you wouldn't expend such a tiny amount of effort to get more informed.

One man's "information" is anothers garbage. I stopped reading his spew back in the early 80's.

 

[American123]

That's true, I just hate seeing a defender end up getting put through the ringer for something so easily avoidable. If you have to defend yourself with lethal force you'll very quickly start caring about what the courts think of the evidence so why not think about it now.

If there was more court validated precedence set by the notion of only using factory loaded ammo I believe I would. As it stands, there is very very little and of which has been offered, I find it questionable to begin with.

 

[Eric in Oregon]

If there was more court validated precedence set by the notion of only using factory loaded ammo I believe I would. As it stands, there is very very little and of which has been offered, I find it questionable to begin with.

There's plenty of precedent if you look. Here's a breakdown on 4 cases where it caused problems:

Cases Where Handloads Caused Problems in Court by Mas Ayoob