Clint Smith on EDC

[RX-79G]

I've already agreed that everything is a trade off, I'm quite content with my 7shot9mm edc. Except I'm not suggesting its entirely sufficient if needed. The difference is I'm not critical of anyone elses choices.

as far as super high quality pistols and BUGs you lost me there on so many levels.

That if you are carrying extra magazines due to malfunctions, select a gun that has superior magazines and springs.

And if you are carrying extra magazines for both malfunctions AND reloads, why not just carry another gun? It will be quicker than a reload and small ones take about even less space.

 

[RX-79G]

Why does someone focus so heavily on what another individual carries?

I think you're the only one who focuses on individuals. All my comments were broad.

 

[Member 53328]

I think you're the only one who focuses on individuals. All my comments were broad.

They were.

Broad strokes. Generalizations used as a "cover" to direct comments at specific members. That way you can easily backpedal a comment. At least I'm up front and tell you directly what I think. I don't do the passive aggressive liberal bullsh!t.

 

[Koda]

That if you are carrying extra magazines due to malfunctions, select a gun that has superior magazines and springs.

And if you are carrying extra magazines for both malfunctions AND reloads, why not just carry another gun? It will be quicker than a reload and small ones take about even less space.

there is multiple reasons to carry a spare mag than just malfunctions. For that, none of my guns are cheap and work reliably, but I'm privileged in that regard. Someone with less buying choices might not be. That said, I carry a spare because its much faster and more practical than a BUG on many levels.

 

[RX-79G]

The recent Texas mall shooting. Guy gets out of his car and just starts shooting at you with a rifle from maybe 25yards away. How content are you now with just a 7shot 9mm the size of a wallet and no spare mag?

Oh but the risk is super low. So low that nobody in America is trying to ban guns cause these things rarely happen.

If someone is shooting at me specifically with a rifle at a more difficult distance, no amount of Glock mags is going to help. He's got accuracy and stopping power over me in spades. Breaking cover to return fire would not be a survival move in most cases, unless there is absolutely no cover or escape.

And if you do pull a gun where the shooter can see, you have become his sole focus until he kills you.

So maybe not a great example?

A better one is dealing with being mugged by a group of people. A small gun of even limited caliper can be used effectively against one assailant. But four gets really tough, unless the other three run. Usually all four will before you pull the trigger. A 15 round 9mm pistol would be much more effective against 4.


Pistols aren't force fields. In the Vegas mass shooting it wouldn't have mattered if everyone at that concert had an AK on them. The death toll would have been identical. Well, the death toll would have been higher, because of the return fire.

 

[RX-79G]

They were.

Broad strokes. Generalizations used as a "cover" to direct comments at specific members. That way you can easily backpedal a comment. At least I'm up front and tell you directly what I think. I don't do the passive aggressive liberal bullsh!t.

You are an insulting jerk. I'm just having a conversation about prep vs quality of life.

The fact that this so offends you is your issue, not mine.

 

[Member 53328]

You are an insulting jerk. I'm just having a conversation about prep vs quality of life.

The fact that this so offends you is your issue, not mine.

That fact that you think I'm insulted….. by some clown on the internet that I have never met in person is laughable.

I don't care about you. Or what you say. You're digging your own grave. I'm just helping you shovel.

 

[RX-79G]

That fact that you think I'm insulted….. by some clown on the internet that I have never met in person is laughable.

I don't care about you. Or what you say. You're digging your own grave. I'm just helping you shovel.

I have no idea why someone who "doesn't care" is so invested in attacking and insulting people they disagree with.

I'm not going to get banned for being unpopular.

 

[Koda]

If someone is shooting at me specifically with a rifle at a more difficult distance, no amount of Glock mags is going to help. He's got accuracy and stopping power over me in spades. Breaking cover to return fire would not be a survival move in most cases, unless there is absolutely no cover or escape.

And if you do pull a gun where the shooter can see, you have become his sole focus until he kills you.

So maybe not a great example?

A better one is dealing with being mugged by a group of people. A small gun of even limited caliper can be used effectively against one assailant. But four gets really tough, unless the other three run. Usually all four will before you pull the trigger. A 15 round 9mm pistol would be much more effective against 4.


Pistols aren't force fields. In the Vegas mass shooting it wouldn't have mattered if everyone at that concert had an AK on them. The death toll would have been identical.

the mall shooting is a very good and practical example. I disagree with your response assessment, even with a sub compact 7rd pistol and even more so about larger capacity guns/mags like a Glock. With training (cough cough) I can hit COM with my sub compact pocket 9mm at longer distances like 20yds. Its not easy and takes regular training (ahem). Assuming the mall shooter didn't randomly pick you first... your chance under stress can come down to any number of shots. A mid sized would be a huge advantage over a pocket gun, likewise a full size duty pistol would be even greater advantage (less training... ? ) . And even if you missed your first shot a barrage of return fire puts the bad guy under serious stress (argument for spare mag and capacity). There was recently a mall shooting that was stopped by an armed citizen with a larger sized Glock from a good 20 yards with very few shots. So I disagree with your response assessment on trading off your safety for the smaller gun.
Same for a mugging. Any gun is better than no gun... but everything's a trade off. Carrying -any- gun is uncomfortable and problematic (ie: non permissive environments...). Its much easier to carry a small gun, but the situation type that demands you need it does not matter, once you need it your better off with a larger gun. Since everyones situation is different, those that can carry larger guns should.

Here's the thing, in the context of individual assessment of ones lifestyle and needs I agree with you that not always a full size gun is the answer and its important to not think everything is a nail when you hold a hammer, so to speak. But that doesnt override the reality of the smaller gun handicapping a situation, and other peoples situations that allow them to carry larger.
Once a gun is needed, there is no longer an advantage to a smaller gun for any reason.

 

[Koda]

You are an insulting jerk. I'm just having a conversation about prep vs quality of life.

The fact that this so offends you is your issue, not mine.

just noting that you started out alluding to people being obsessed or whatever just because they choose a larger gun and train. Those arent exactly complimenting a positive discussion.
I get a lot of what you try to say but your delivery is what gets you in hot water. Ive tried to point this out to you before.

 

[Member 53328]

I have no idea why someone who "doesn't care" is so invested in attacking and insulting people they disagree with.

I'm not going to get banned for being unpopular.

I've been banned before. Yet here I am.

I don't tailor my opinions to appease other people. And talking about insults…. Didn't you just call me a jerk? May wanna go look in the mirror before you start throwing stones.

I'm not too concerned with your popularity contest. Here's a clue though….. you're not winning.

 

[RX-79G]

the mall shooting is a very good and practical example. I disagree with your response assessment, even with a sub compact 7rd pistol and even more so about larger capacity guns/mags like a Glock. With training (cough cough) I can hit COM with my sub compact pocket 9mm at longer distances like 20yds. Its not easy and takes regular training (ahem). Assuming the mall shooter didn't randomly pick you first... your chance under stress can come down to any number of shots. A mid sized would be a huge advantage over a pocket gun, likewise a full size duty pistol would be even greater advantage (less training... ? ) . And even if you missed your first shot a barrage of return fire puts the bad guy under serious stress (argument for spare mag and capacity). There was recently a mall shooting that was stopped by an armed citizen with a larger sized Glock from a good 20 yards with very few shots. So I disagree with your response assessment on trading off your safety for the smaller gun.
Same for a mugging. Any gun is better than no gun... but everything's a trade off. Carrying -any- gun is uncomfortable and problematic (ie: non permissive environments...). Its much easier to carry a small gun, but the situation type that demands you need it does not matter, once you need it your better off with a larger gun. Since everyones situation is different, those that can carry larger guns should.

Here's the thing, in the context of individual assessment of ones lifestyle and needs I agree with you that not always a full size gun is the answer and its important to not think everything is a nail when you hold a hammer, so to speak. But that doesnt override the reality of the smaller gun handicapping a situation, and other peoples situations that allow them to carry larger.
Once a gun is needed, there is no longer an advantage to a smaller gun for any reason.

Hey, I can hold a 3" group with a .25 pocket gun and hit COM at a 100 yards with my P9S. But I can't do that while a guy only 25 yards away is already shooting at me with a rifle. Even with cover, it is suicide to pop your head up to return fire against a rifle at that range.

 

[Koda]

Hey, I can hold a 3" group with a .25 pocket gun and hit COM at a 100 yards with my P9S.

I nominate this for the next "put up or shut up" youtube video challenge

But I can't do that while a guy only 25 yards away is already shooting at me with a rifle. Even with cover, it is suicide to pop your head up to return fire against a rifle at that range.

Maybe maybe not. There is no only one situation that unfolds in any shooting. If you can hit 3" COM groups at 100 yards with your compact 9mm then you can hit a mass shooter at 25 yards. The only issue is if hes actively targeting you or not. My take is unless your the unlucky first victim you at least have one shot, or more. You seem to like to use absolutes to make your point but any number of things can go down in a response to a criminal act of violence.

 

[Member 53328]

I nominate this for the next "put up or shut up" youtube video challenge

Maybe maybe not. There is no only one situation that unfolds in any shooting. If you can hit 3" COM groups at 100 yards with your compact 9mm then you can hit a mass shooter at 25 yards. The only issue is if hes actively targeting you or not. My take is unless your the unlucky first victim you at least have one shot, or more. You seem to like to use absolutes to make your point but any number of things can go down in a response to a criminal act of violence.

I second your nomination.

 

[RX-79G]

I nominate this for the next "put up or shut up" youtube video challenge

Maybe maybe not. There is no only one situation that unfolds in any shooting. If you can hit 3" COM groups at 100 yards with your compact 9mm then you can hit a mass shooter at 25 yards. The only issue is if hes actively targeting you or not. My take is unless your the unlucky first victim you at least have one shot, or more. You seem to like to use absolutes to make your point but any number of things can go down in a response to a criminal act of violence.

The example was that the shooter was actively targeting you, and my answers pertained to that example.

I don't see what the big deal is with shooting a fixed barrel .25 at 25 yards or hit the center of silhouette at 100 yards with a full size, fixed barrel P9S. It is one of the most accurate combat pistols ever made.

 

[Koda]

The example was that the shooter was actively targeting you, and my answers pertained to that example.

touche. True on that detail.
Would you be content with just 7rds from a pocekt 9mm if you had the chance to engage?

 

[RX-79G]

touche. True on that detail.
Would you be content with just 7rds from a pocekt 9mm if you had the chance to engage?

No. Nor would I be content with any pistol. But could I make it work? If I failed it wouldn't have been for for lack of a 1/2" of sight radius and 9 rounds. I would either surprise the shooter with 2-3 good hits or not. It isn't like you can mag dump a Glock and expect good hits at that range. 16 deliberate hits at 25 yards takes time.

But I don't buy the idea that you can have a lopsided fight like that go on for minutes.


BTW, these scenarios are the reason I favor very accurate carry guns. If you're going up against a rifle, the main thing you can do is make the best possible first hit from cover or out of sight.

 

[Koda]

No. Nor would I be content with any pistol. But could I make it work? If I failed it wouldn't have been for for lack of a 1/2" of sight radius and 9 rounds. I would either surprise the shooter with 2-3 good hits or not. It isn't like you can mag dump a Glock and expect good hits at that range. 16 deliberate hits at 25 yards takes time.

But I don't buy the idea that you can have a lopsided fight like that go on for minutes.


BTW, these scenarios are the reason I favor very accurate carry guns. If you're going up against a rifle, the main thing you can do is make the best possible first hit from cover or out of sight.

If you missed at first but had cover there is no telling how long the fight could last. Clearly though a larger pistol would be to your advantage.

while ago watching some training videos some can rapid fire very accurately its impressive to see, I thought it would be fun to learn to be that good. Its fun, but then I realized why bother. Speed is fine but accuracy is final... and there's other complications to putting rapid fire into your muscle memory (another subject). There is a fun drill I like to practice that fits in here it starts out with 2 shots at 25yds, and your right that hitting COM at 25 yards is not going to be a fast mag dump. Doing it with my pocket 9 is possible but even less ideal. A larger gun is better here.

 

[RX-79G]

If you missed at first but had cover there is no telling how long the fight could last. Clearly though a larger pistol would be to your advantage.

while ago watching some training videos some can rapid fire very accurately its impressive to see, I thought it would be fun to learn to be that good. Its fun, but then I realized why bother. Speed is fine but accuracy is final... and there's other complications to putting rapid fire into your muscle memory (another subject). There is a fun drill I like to practice that fits in here it starts out with 2 shots at 25yds, and your right that hitting COM at 25 yards is not going to be a fast mag dump. Doing it with my pocket 9 is possible but even less ideal. A larger gun is better here.

Your PT92 can be fired fast reasonably accurate. I had a P7 that had no muzzle rise no matter how fast. My HK P9S is close. Jericho pistols with their heavy frame also have little muzzle rise fired rapidly.

 

[Koda]

Your PT92 can be fired fast reasonably accurate. I had a P7 that had no muzzle rise no matter how fast. My HK P9S is close. Jericho pistols with their heavy frame also have little muzzle rise fired rapidly.

(92FS). The thing about rapid fire is its hard to stop on an instant if needed. (Thats probably the next thread drift. )
Im not too concerned about learning to rapid fire. I just want to practice accuracy, speed comes with accuracy first. I figure if your getting hits the splits time is less important?