Help me understand?

[41mag]

30+ years ago a buddy introduced me to his Anschutz, actually leaving it with me for the summer. Of particular intrigue was the $700 optical sights. I had never considered using a 1" square as a serious target beyond 50' yet in short order was obtaining cloverleaf at 50 yards using seriously expensive ammo. It was a world I couldn't reside in for long as he wanted his stuff back eventually.

 

[tac]

Unrelated question. Is shooting in the UK a wealthier activity type thing? Are these clubs open to regular middle class or even lower middle class folks? That's sort of the image I'm starting to get. That or your club is very very different than mine!

It's obviously going to come as a surprise to you, but the feudal system disappeared here around 550 years ago. Our club is open to anyone who wants to learn to shoot, and can afford the annual fee. 'Regular middle class, lower middle class'? What do those terms mean to you?

I can tell you that they mean absolutely zero to me.

Because most serious .22 target rifle shooters of my acquaintance only have one gun, they tend to spend serious money getting it. Our little club has regional and county shooters in it, and two current members of Team GB.

Every British club is going to be different to yours, of that there is no doubt. No handguns that look like handguns, no semi-auto centre-fire rifles either. Unless your club does Gallery rifle, or the 1500 comps, your won't see anything that looks like IPSC shooting either. Practical shotgun? Yup, we do that, but although it is popular, ownership of the type of shotgun needed to compete means that instead of a shotgun certificate [easy to get for most folks over the age of 18] you have to have a full firearms certificate, like I do for all my centre and rim-fire guns.

There are well over 2000 gun clubs in the yUK, BTW, so it is hardly the shooting desert that some would tell you about, Our club has over 400 members and is held up as a good example of the way a club ought to be, but is not unique.

Lemme find a good pic of an average day on the 100m range... If you see anybody there dressed up like you imagine a lord might be dressed, or even if you can tell what 'class' of person they are by looking at them, let me know.

Looking to the left -


...and to the right....

and an open day................a friend's son shooting my open sighted High Wall .45-70 Govt for the first time....

 

[Member 5605]

Fundamentals in precision .22 is the same as precision in a 300WM.

More fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.

I'd enjoy a fancy .22LR chambered rifle but the ones I have shoot fine enough for me. Remember there are guys who use fancy ammo in these and shoot flies at 100y all day long. I can't do that with my rifle but it's close.. if the fly is the size of half dollar.

Cheaper to shoot than full powered rifles, easily suppressed to near silent operations. I get it.

 

[Member 34319]

@tac I didn't mean to offend if I did?

Just curious that's all. UK sounds completely different than the states. I only get glimpses of it from your posts here and there, I'm not actively researching the subject.

Sounds like it might be a little out of most general public's reach, in my opinion, so it makes sense that there are lots of expensive rifles around. If it was like the US, I'd imagine you would see much more variety?

Not trying to say anything negative by that, just stating what I'm understanding from your posts.

It is very interesting to see and read what it is like in a country without the second amendment.

 

[Xrperry]

My 1940 Remington 510 targetmaster can outshoot me and it cost me 75.00

 

[tac]

@tac I didn't mean to offend if I did?

Just curious that's all. UK sounds completely different than the states. I only get glimpses of it from your posts here and there, I'm not actively researching the subject.

Sounds like it might be a little out of most general public's reach, in my opinion, so it makes sense that there are lots of expensive rifles around. If it was like the US, I'd imagine you would see much more variety?

Not trying to say anything negative by that, just stating what I'm understanding from your posts.

It is very interesting to see and read what it is like in a country without the second amendment.

Not offended, just, well, curious. This place is not a nationwide replication of Downton Abbey, y'know. , let alone Benny Hill, Fawlty Towers or Monty Python.

If you've read any of my posts over the years, you ought, by now, have figured out that the 'general public' is not in the least bit interested in shooting or shooting sports, since they have more or less zero contact either with the sporting scene, or the people who DO shoot.

Of course there are lots of expensive rifles around - isn't that the same where YOU live?

And lots of cheaper rifles, too. More CZ rifles are sold in the UK than in any other part of Europe - did you know that? and more Remington, too....

 

[Member 34319]

Not offended, just, well, curious. This place is not a nationwide replication of Downton Abbey, y'know. , let alone Benny Hill, Fawlty Towers or Monty Python.

If you've read any of my posts over the years, you ought, by now, have figured out that the 'general public' is not in the least bit interested in shooting or shooting sports, since they have more or less zero contact either with the sporting scene, or the people who DO shoot.

Of course there are lots of expensive rifles around - isn't that the same where YOU live?

And lots of cheaper rifles, too. More CZ rifles are sold in the UK than in any other part of Europe - did you know that? and more Remington, too....

Sorry I asked...

 

[41mag]

Re: high-end 22s
The same buddy with the Anschutz, was literally entranced by my circa 1910 single shot Martini 22. It had a rear peep sight with rotating aperture disc and seemed to be of some sort of British 'club gun' design. Dirty & much used & abandoned in some pile of ballistic debris I was sorting thru, I gave the owner a full $100 for it.

After a little clean up, I was getting excellent groups at 100+ yards with run of the mill 22 ammo. My buddy just had to have it, you know what happened next.

Being the full-bore compulsive poster child, he thoroughly worked it over for clean/adjust and even built a bench rest stock for it. Wearing his Roarke's Drift British campaign style range costume to celebrate his allegiance with dedication to detail, he reported consistently shooting with the top 5 of his precision rifle club, often in the top 2 or 3, with a bargain rack antique rifle against those modern versions of the very high extreme end mentioned at the start of this thread. I forget his ammo choice, but he was well satisfied with the long distance performance of the set up.

So far I have been unable to pry that Martini back out of his grasp.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

i spend 10 times the amount on a set of snap on screw drivers when harbor freight or home depot has a $15 set or 1 snap on socket costs twice what a craftsman whole socket set costs.... why you may ask? you get what you pay for and when used every single day they hold up, lifetime warranty where the tool guy comes to me and hands me a new one...they last a lifetime. nothin wrong with low to mid range quality tools if theyre used a couple times a year but they just dont hold up for decades. its kind of like guns. i think i spent $200 on my 10/22. i shoot it maybe once or twice a year...its fine theres no reason for me to have somethin fancy other than the "because i can" thing.ive kept that gun bone stock. i shoot my ARs much more often and theyre all far from "stock" or "entry level." guys that shoot stuff every day are probably gonna buy something of higher quality which in turn is usually more expensive.


just my thoughts.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

I actually own a pretty nice 10/22. And my interest in rimfires is quite alive believe me. I just prefer WMR or HMR.

But since the general population has come to the conclusion that I dislike rimfire, my job here is complete.

did that glock 44 make your head explode? LOL

 

[Kruel J]

did that glock 44 make your head explode? LOL

Nah, just some slight vomit in my mouth.

 

[tac]

Sorry I asked...

C'mon, don't those guys on the firing line look just like regular guys at your club, or wherever it is that you go to shoot? We are just ordinary guys here. No lords, no millionaires [that I know of]. Hereabouts we tend not to show off wealth [or lack of it] in any kind of an ostentatious manner. Aanyhow, I've been in THIS club since 1995, and all I know is that we are all the same here - shooters doing the best we can under trying circumstances.

And as for the expense of shooting at a range, have you seen how much membership is at Clark Rifle these days?

 

[11Charlie]

, have you seen how much membership is at Clark Rifle these days?

$100 a year. How much do you pay for yours Tac?

 

[bbbass]

My 1940 Remington 510 targetmaster can outshoot me and it cost me 75.00

Remington TargetMaster

Re: high-end 22s
The same buddy with the Anschutz, was literally entranced by my circa 1910 single shot Martini 22. It had a rear peep sight with rotating aperture disc and seemed to be of some sort of British 'club gun' design. Dirty & much used & abandoned in some pile of ballistic debris I was sorting thru, I gave the owner a full $100 for it.

After a little clean up, I was getting excellent groups at 100+ yards with run of the mill 22 ammo. My buddy just had to have it, you know what happened next.

Being the full-bore compulsive poster child, he thoroughly worked it over for clean/adjust and even built a bench rest stock for it. Wearing his Roarke's Drift British campaign style range costume to celebrate his allegiance with dedication to detail, he reported consistently shooting with the top 5 of his precision rifle club, often in the top 2 or 3, with a bargain rack antique rifle against those modern versions of the very high extreme end mentioned at the start of this thread. I forget his ammo choice, but he was well satisfied with the long distance performance of the set up.

So far I have been unable to pry that Martini back out of his grasp.

Good story!!

 

[tac]

Re: high-end 22s
The same buddy with the Anschutz, was literally entranced by my circa 1910 single shot Martini 22. It had a rear peep sight with rotating aperture disc and seemed to be of some sort of British 'club gun' design. Dirty & much used & abandoned in some pile of ballistic debris I was sorting thru, I gave the owner a full $100 for it.

After a little clean up, I was getting excellent groups at 100+ yards with run of the mill 22 ammo. My buddy just had to have it, you know what happened next.

Being the full-bore compulsive poster child, he thoroughly worked it over for clean/adjust and even built a bench rest stock for it. Wearing his Roarke's Drift British campaign style range costume to celebrate his allegiance with dedication to detail, he reported consistently shooting with the top 5 of his precision rifle club, often in the top 2 or 3, with a bargain rack antique rifle against those modern versions of the very high extreme end mentioned at the start of this thread. I forget his ammo choice, but he was well satisfied with the long distance performance of the set up.

So far I have been unable to pry that Martini back out of his grasp.

I have two of them, but I guess you've seen them both before. the left-hander cost me £55 and the right-hander with the laminated stock cost me £65.

It was the leftie that shot this one-holer on the other post.


Leftie - with the Al Freeland sight set, also included in the £55 deal...


Rightie -

 

[tac]

$100 a year. How much do you pay for yours Tac?

At present rates, $110. But I'm an old fart, an NRA qualified RCO for nitro and BP and general bon oeuf. Most folks pay $130.

 

[11Charlie]

At present rates, $110. But I'm an old fart, an NRA qualified RCO for nitro and BP and general bon oeuf. Most folks pay $130.

Which is affordable for anyone who likes to shoot. When you look at the broad spectrum of the sport that is nothing compared to what we spend on guns and ammo.

 

[tac]

Don't overlook that in general, we have to pay around twice what you do to buy our guns, especially if they are from the US. You can buy the RPR in 6.5 Creedmore for around $1350 - I've seen them for an even K, over here they are well nigh 2K and up. Leupold scopes? don't get me started...... You also seem to get .22 ammunition for nothing.... I pay £95 for 500 Eley match.

Costy sports here in UK are -

1. Anything to do with horses.

2. Anything to with sail-boats bigger than around 25 feet.

3. Anything to do with fixed-wing 'fun-flying'. Learning to fly costs around $600/hour.

4. Anything, and I mean ANYTHING, to do with rotary-wing. Learning to fly costs around $1000/hour.

5. Polo.

6. Real tennis.

7. Any motor sports. Even demolition derby-style stuff.

8. Anything in sport that is not funded is expensive - if you have a gifted athlete child, like our niece does [acrobatic gymnastics - they live in Scotland]. Travelling seven hundred miles to a competition in Cornwall has to be paid by the parents. For example, the British tumbling and trampolining team won gold medals in Japan two weeks ago. Not only has nobody ever heard of them, they had to pay for it themselves. These are not elitists, just ordinary youngsters who happen to be good at their chosen sport.

 

[tac]

Ah, one more thing I've just thought of. It might be apposite, or not.

Y'see, no matter how much I might jones after another spiffy rifle, or even a handgun of the kind that we are allowed to have here on mainland yUK, I can't have it without selling one I already have. It's not the law here in my county, but a codicil attached to the extant Firearms Act by a spiteful Chief Constable back in 2003 or so, in an effort to reduce the number of Section 1 [Rifled] firearms in the county.

So all my guns - that's 19, BTW - have been bought and paid for for many years, and the couple of new ones I've acquired were funded by selling those I had already bought.

Apart from .22cal, obviously, I reload every calibre I shoot, or cast ball/bullet for the BP guns i still have.

 

[Member 34319]

Sorry guys. Sometimes I start a thread to figure something out and end up just pissing everyone off because I think differently.

This type of rifle makes me think of a paper I wrote on Market Placebo Affect.

People tend to apply "better" or "quality" to things that cost more. It's a psychological thing. Yes, there are items out there, that are better and do cost more, but there are brands that have created a psychological branding of luxury and because of this can sell things for whatever they wish to.

Think Rolex. They raise the prices every year. Not because they need to or their costs are rising, but only as a continuation of the brands luxury perception.