Help me understand?

[CountryGent]

I've got well over $1k into my Bergara in 6.5CM. You are welcome to try it out anytime brother.

Out of curiosity, do you use your Bergara to hunt or target shoot?

 

[tac]

Some people drive a Ford, others drive a Mercedes-Benz.

Both will get you there.

 

[oa98pistol512]

Nice 22lr pistols are the same..By the time I bought the mk IV stainless threaded , then mounts , grips , RMR I am over 1k into a 22 pistol!!! I haven't even done the trigger job yet...

 

[tac]

If I had something to compare it to that would be a worthy trip to the range. I'd like to see something like that up against say an budget 6.5 Ruger American.

That's a completely different thing though.

I guess I'm struggling to understand the market for a refined 22lr bolt gun when the good Ammo will shoot good in any 22lr bolt action. Unless it's simply a finer rifle overall type thing. As not much is superior in accuracy.

Let's be honest here, Guys. Some people just like nice things - the ownership of a nice thing, thing, if you will. Sure, a Casio tells me the same time, but I'd rather be looking at my 1970 Breitling. And you can buy a pretty good .22 rifle these days for around,what, $500 - 600? But there will STILL be those of us for whom there is nothing like a Winchester Model 52.

This here rifle, bought by me in a real stealer of a deal, cost me just £80 - that was about $150 then -



Find me one for under $1500 now, and buy it.

It's no use simply saying that the economy gun will shoot just the same as the spiffy model. Right now, it might do just that.

But in ten thousand rounds' time?

Trust me, mileage like that is nothin' to a .22cal rifle. Here in the 'spiffy rifle' world, we buy once and cry, and laff all the way to the bank after seeing what our 'overpriced' babies are still doing when the economy model is but a sad memory.

THIS five shot group at 25m came from a gun that would have cost a small fortune in the USA when it was new, a BSA International MkII target rifle.


How many shots has it fired since 1957, when somebody paid the equivalent of around $1800.00 for it?


Would I upset anybody here by talking about Kimber? One proudly sold as 'Made in Oregon'? I've never seen one I didn't want to buy, just for the sheer beauty of the thing, oh, and the way it shoots, of course.

At four times the price of a Ruger 10/22, though.

 

[Member 34319]

@tac i think your input is the best explanation thus far.

I appreciate the input.

I may not agree with all of it, but I think you helped me understand that there are just some out there that are willing to pay a lot more for essentially the same thing.

I just didn't realize that more and more folks are buying these, to support more manufacturers produce them.

It sort of makes sense.

Growing up I shot mostly Rimfire. As an adult I can spend hours at the range shooting nothing but rimfire.

I just was kind of shocked to see more options on the market that are well into the $1000 mark to shoot a little ole 22lr.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Smallbore rifle indoor targets have a 10 ring that is the same size as a .22LR bullet hole. You need to score 90+ with 10 shots from each position in a 4 position match in order to be competitive. That kind of precision gets to be expensive.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Well, my first was a 1953 Winchester M-52 Olympic Match, I sort of got spoiled and now I demand such performance for any rim fire that would follow! That requirement has seen a Remington 541-T-HB, and an Anschutz M-64 Running Game Match!
Sure, a Savage MK-II shoots lights out all day long, BUT it will never be an Anchutz, it will never look or feel like one, and will never hold the value of one, let alone increase in value like one!
My M-52 was an expensive purchase in 1978, a whopping $120 with all three barrels, a Redfield scope, iron sights and all accessories! Today, that same rife ( Because of it's U.S Olympic shooting team connections) is worth over 5K.
In 1998, the Anchutz M-64 cost me an astonishing $600, a price that seemed to be at the very top end of what most would spend on a .22, and the 541-T-HB was easily over $600 brand spanking new, before the mods! Value today, well over 4 times that!
YUP, quality does cost money, but if you can recognize that as a value and performance, then cost ultimately only counts when you make the decision to buy it or not!

 

[leadcounsel]

What's to understand? Simple economics. Supply and demand.

Why is a 5 round magazine, which uses less manufacturing materials, 3-5x the cost of a 30 round magazine?
Why is a .380 cartridge more expensive than a 9x19 cartridge? The .380 uses 20% less materials yet is 10-20% more expensive.

Lots and lots of examples in every industry of things that don't seem to make sense yet are explained in supply vs. demand.

 

[Greenbug]

There is a whole 'nother world out there that you aren't seeing. A thousand dollar precision rim fire rifle that is identical to your many thousands of dollars match/long range rifle is highly desirable to a lot of folks. If it wasn't then companies wouldn't make them. Take that new Bergara M-14 22LR precision trainer or the Vudoo Gunworks V-22 for instance... They developed AICS pattern magazines for 22 LR that work with Remington 700 pattern rifles. The cost of developing new items like this is expensive, but they wouldn't do it if there wasn't a market for it either. PRS match shooters and NRL 22 guys/gals will gobble these up at alarming rates to have a precision rifle that looks feels and acts like their match rifle but shoots ammo that is a fraction of the cost. Also these rifles require shorter ranges than their center fire counterparts to effectively train with. Shooting a 22LR at 300 yards is akin to the same flight time and wind drift as a lot of center fire rifles at near 1400 yards. So with these new precision 22 trainer rifles you only need access to much shorter ranges to experience and train for the much longer shots with your center fire rifle. A lot of the country does not have access to ranges beyond 300 yards for this type of training. A precision 22LR just makes a lot of sense in this regard.

I almost bought one of these Bergara's on GB the other day, at $900 I thought it was a decent deal for what it was. Alas, I am holding out for the Vudoo V-22 or the Masterpiece Arms 22 trainer in their chassis based on the newer CZ 457 action. The Vudoo in a chassis will be about $2500-$3000 depending on the chassis or stock, the MPA's run about $1600 or so.

My Tikka T1X 22LR shoots consistently sub 1/2" at 50 yards, the Vudoo and MPA are capable of half that group size. Accuracy is expensive, some people don't get it, others line up to pay for it.

 

[Member 34319]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

It sort of makes sense why these exist more after reading your replies.

I will certainly NOT hesitate to shoot one if I ever get the chance to. Would love to see what a $1000+ rimfire bolt action feels like and if I could shoot it better than my $300 rimfire bolt action.

 

[11Charlie]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

It sort of makes sense why these exist more after reading your replies.

I will certainly NOT hesitate to shoot one if I ever get the chance to. Would love to see what a $1000+ rimfire bolt action feels like and if I could shoot it better than my $300 rimfire bolt action.

If you ever get the chance make sure you report back. I would love to know!!

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Well, my first was a 1953 Winchester M-52 Olympic Match, I sort of got spoiled and now I demand such performance for any rim fire that would follow! That requirement has seen a Remington 541-T-HB, and an Anschutz M-64 Running Game Match!
Sure, a Savage MK-II shoots lights out all day long, BUT it will never be an Anchutz, it will never look or feel like one, and will never hold the value of one, let alone increase in value like one!
My M-52 was an expensive purchase in 1978, a whopping $120 with all three barrels, a Redfield scope, iron sights and all accessories! Today, that same rife ( Because of it's U.S Olympic shooting team connections) is worth over 5K.
In 1998, the Anchutz M-64 cost me an astonishing $600, a price that seemed to be at the very top end of what most would spend on a .22, and the 541-T-HB was easily over $600 brand spanking new, before the mods! Value today, well over 4 times that!
YUP, quality does cost money, but if you can recognize that as a value and performance, then cost ultimately only counts when you make the decision to buy it or not!

I had a Remington 513T that I won several matches with. I think the most expensive rifle in our club was a Winchester 52-D. You had to be in the 390's out of 400.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I made it to 393!

 

[slimmer13]

Anything that anyone is in to, there will be a demand for higher end versions. Knives, cars, tools, whiskey, computers, etc. Some people are in to shooting rimfire.

 

[tac]

Smallbore rifle indoor targets have a 10 ring that is the same size as a .22LR bullet hole. You need to score 90+ with 10 shots from each position in a 4 position match in order to be competitive. That kind of precision gets to be expensive.

Sorry, Sir, but 90+ is where you START to get competitive. 10 are scored to decimal places, and the last 50m comps were won by the number of 10.9s v 10.8s...

And don't get me onto air rifle, shot at 10m at a ONE mm spot. You have to obliterate the spot to score a ten. Standing.

 

[tac]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

It sort of makes sense why these exist more after reading your replies.

I will certainly NOT hesitate to shoot one if I ever get the chance to. Would love to see what a $1000+ rimfire bolt action feels like and if I could shoot it better than my $300 rimfire bolt action.

Operating the bolt just once will do it for you. Or else all the world would be competing with $300 rifles instead of $3000 plus sights, of course.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

What's up with 22 rifles going into the $1000 plus market these days?

Is it a club restriction on ammo or distances?

Are we so restricted in states that 22 is now the only option?

I freaking love 22lr, but I simply do not understand how there are 22lr rifles that cost more than their high end center fire counterparts!

Do these high end guns make bulk ammo shoot sub minute?

Is it just gun guys with too much money wanting a Rimfire version of their centerfire gun?

I know some here own a Vuduu or similar, so I'm hoping one of them might chime in.

For reference, this has an msrp of $1100.

View attachment 642200

This action alone with no stock is $1700

View attachment 642201

Meanwhile, this newly released Ruger is only $600 msrp.

View attachment 642202


What am I missing?

I hear you. I just bought a bolt action armscor .22 with threaded barrel for $118 out the door (via Lucky sports in banks). It's nearly all metal and wood and well built for what it is.

The inherent accuracy difference between that and a high end rifle would be negligible for most shooters because ammo and technique are much bigger variables than the gun's inherent accuracy.

Now if you were an Olympic shooter etc yea u will benefit from the highest end rifles. But even an excellent quality gun like the CZ .22 rifles are only around $450ish. If someone wants to spend $1000 or more on a super accurate .22 that's great if it's what they want. It's not for me though personally.

For me the huge benefit of .22s is tons of fun for low cost. A silent bolt action suppressed .22 Is dirt cheap, also .22 Ar pistol clones are a blast and cheap. Also u can add a binary trigger and shoot 600 rounds per minute on some ar clones. That fire rate would be very expensive for any other caliber but with .22 you can shoot all u want and not worry about costs too much at all.

 

[Member 34319]

Operating the bolt just once will do it for you. Or else all the world would be competing with $300 rifles instead of $3000 plus sights, of course.

That's just mechanical however?

Most competitive stuff I've been to, folks are using $200-$1000 equipment.

I haven't been or seen a competition yet where everyone was using $1000 and up equipment. I'm uncertain if fit in at that club or competition.

 

[tac]

I've never been in a .22 competition where the rifles didn't cost near as much as my car.

Well, almost.

I just called the guy who runs our club 'squint and squeeze whilst trussed-up' team and found that seven of them have Bleiker rifles, mostly new - so that's at least $42K - others have Anschutz and one guy is still shooting his four-year-old Walther. So let's just say that the 12 man team has around $60k worth of guns. add the special clothing and ....................................

.22 cal bench rest is VERY popular here in yUK because it's mostly affordable on account of the divisions into which it is, uh, divided. You can compete with a very basic rifle and scope, or go totally bat-s**T crazy and hit the mega-spend button. He**, a few of the really keen shooters in our club have spent around $1500 or more on the REST, let alone the rifle.

 

[Member 34319]

I've never been in a .22 competition where the rifles didn't cost near as much as my car.

Well, almost.

I just called the guy who runs our club 'squint and squeeze whilst trussed-up' team and found that seven of them have Bleiker rifles, mostly new - so that's at least $42K - others have Anschutz and one guy is still shooting his four-year-old Walther. So let's just say that the 12 man team has around $60k worth of guns. add the special clothing and ....................................

.22 cal bench rest is VERY popular here in yUK because it's mostly affordable on account of the divisions into which it is, uh, divided. You can compete with a very basic rifle and scope, or go totally bat-s**T crazy and hit the mega-spend button. He**, a few of the really keen shooters in our club have spent around $1500 or more on the REST, let alone the rifle.

Unrelated question.

Is shooting in the UK a wealthier activity type thing? Are these clubs open to regular middle class or even lower middle class folks?

That's sort of the image I'm starting to get. That or your club is very very different than mine!