Alphabet no knock warrant shootout, agent and homeowner injured

[Alexx1401]

Personally, I have very little sympathy for any individual that decides to shoot at a law enforcement officer who is serving a search warrant. I don't care what the search warrant is in regards to, the way the legal system is designed is that point gets argued and decided at a later date in front of a judge in a courtroom (and then an appeals court if you don't like that decision). The legality is not open to debate during the execution of the court ordered search...
An extremely poor decision by the homeowner to fire a weapon at an officer doing his job. I am totally in support of law enforcement going home alive at the end of their shifts.

I VERY much doubt anyone here would support the idea of firing on an LEO because they had a warrant. I also VERY much doubt this guy fired on LEO's knowing he was firing on LEO's. After all who in anything close to "right mind' would see this as a fight you could win?

 

[CamoDeafie]

Personally, I have very little sympathy for any individual that decides to shoot at a law enforcement officer who is serving a search warrant. I don't care what the search warrant is in regards to, the way the legal system is designed is that point gets argued and decided at a later date in front of a judge in a courtroom (and then an appeals court if you don't like that decision). The legality is not open to debate during the execution of the court ordered search...
An extremely poor decision by the homeowner to fire a weapon at an officer doing his job. I am totally in support of law enforcement going home alive at the end of their shifts.

Except... we are told that allegedly, the ATF did not knock/alert the dude, only that they busted door down without announcing that they're ATF agents?

What would you have done if a group of heavily armed people busted your door down and made threats/ aimed guns at you, without announcing that theyre LEOs, at 6am?

 

[thebigbaby]

I VERY much doubt anyone here would support the idea of firing on an LEO because they had a warrant. I also VERY much doubt this guy fired on LEO's knowing he was firing on LEO's. After all who in anything close to "right mind' would see this as a fight you could win?

Are you an officer? You seem pretty knowledgable on this topic and I noticed the blue flag in your avatar.

 

[Alexx1401]

Are you an officer? You seem pretty knowledgable on this topic and I noticed the blue flag in your avatar.

Not how I make my living anymore, still VERY much support them most of the time. These times they play cowboy are hard to justify. Every time I see one I am left wondering why anyone with a brain thought this was the way to handle this. It gets both LEO's and criminals killed. A few times it gets an innocent killed. Every time I am left wondering why this seemed like a good idea.

 

[Alexx1401]

Except... we are told that allegedly, the ATF did not knock/alert the dude, only that they busted door down without announcing that they're ATF agents?

What would you have done if a group of heavily armed people busted your door down and made threats/ aimed guns at you, without announcing that theyre LEOs, at 6am?

Sadly home invading scum have long been using this technique. Yelling POLICE as they bust in. Hoping the people inside will not shoot them. Even if the LEO's are LEO's and yelling who they are? You may wake someone from dead sleep with the sound of the door being broken in. Why is this the "best way" to arrest someone?

 

[CamoDeafie]

Sadly home invading scum have long been using this technique. Yelling POLICE as they bust in. Hoping the people inside will not shoot them. Even if the LEO's are LEO's and yelling who they are? You may wake someone from dead sleep with the sound of the door being broken in. Why is this the "best way" to arrest someone?

Not only that, the media has been repeatedly talking up and raising fear of heavily armed white people with camo and armor doing raids or militia activities, as well as cartel violence showing uniformed Cartel members with obscured faces and AKs in hand...
To the point that anyone seen wearing uniforms of sorts and plate carriers that aren't LEOs or Military, are considered "credible threats to freedom"... not saying thats what the deceased saw, but saying its possible he didn't see them as legitimate LEOs serving warrant...

 

[Val1884]

Criminals kick in doors. Polite fellow citizens keep it quiet and professional.

 

[Catfishmoon]

I VERY much doubt anyone here would support the idea of firing on an LEO because they had a warrant. I also VERY much doubt this guy fired on LEO's knowing he was firing on LEO's. After all who in anything close to "right mind' would see this as a fight you could win?

I don't know how much will come out in a courtroom, it will probably depend on if the family takes it to court claiming wrongful death. But there should be body cam footage from multiple officers announcing they are law enforcement as they breach the door. My working assumption is that is the case...
If it were to be shown there is no body cam video, or that video shows they did announce themselves as law enforcement upon entry, then I would stand corrected...

 

[Catfishmoon]

Except... we are told that allegedly, the ATF did not knock/alert the dude, only that they busted door down without announcing that they're ATF agents?

What would you have done if a group of heavily armed people busted your door down and made threats/ aimed guns at you, without announcing that theyre LEOs, at 6am?

I have not seen any evidence the ATF did not knock/announce. If you have seen that evidence please provide a link...
It appears you and I both are going with assumptions; me that they would have announced as law enforcement, you that they would not/did not...
It is an important piece of information in these circumstances.

 

[bradsteen]

I have not seen any evidence the ATF did not knock/announce. If you have seen that evidence please provide a link...
It appears you and I both are going with assumptions; me that they would have announced as law enforcement, you that they would not/did not...
It is an important piece of information in these circumstances.

You beat me to it. I was just going to ask how we know they didn't knock / announce? I see no reference to method of serving in the links that have been shared.

 

[lucusloc]

Personally, I have very little sympathy for any individual that decides to shoot at a law enforcement officer who is serving a search warrant. I don't care what the search warrant is in regards to, the way the legal system is designed is that point gets argued and decided at a later date in front of a judge in a courtroom (and then an appeals court if you don't like that decision). The legality is not open to debate during the execution of the court ordered search...
An extremely poor decision by the homeowner to fire a weapon at an officer doing his job. I am totally in support of law enforcement going home alive at the end of their shifts.

Problem is they may not actually be LEOs executing a search warrant. Gangs are imitating this behavior now too because the fast pace of the hostile treatment lets them get in while their targets are still trying to decide if this is a real LEO raid and should be cooperated with and dealt with in court or if it a gang raid that will just execute everyone when they have gained control of the situation. And this is not just being used on rivals, it is being used to target rich looking homes for goods and possibly even hostages. In theory anyone could be a victim of this kind of assault.

On the other hand if LEOs would just execute warrants in non-hostile ways, where you can validate paperwork and get lawyers involved, then there is little reason to presume they will try to execute you as soon as your back is turned, because someone pretending to be a LEO cannot really get an upper hand that way.

The decision to go in all flashy and "high speed" has consequences beyond just what is on the surface.

 

[solv3nt]

I too would have to wonder if he was not in some kind of money bind. A LOT of people who make big money still get in all kinds of money trouble. If it comes out that he was in money trouble still amazing that he chose that method to make more cash. Feel bad for his family.

I've got a buddy, and his wife was working as a traveling nurse bringing in $175k or so. They have credit card debt, a seven year truck payment, student loans etc.

 

[DirectDrive]

I too would have to wonder if he was not in some kind of money bind. A LOT of people who make big money still get in all kinds of money trouble. If it comes out that he was in money trouble still amazing that he chose that method to make more cash. Feel bad for his family.

I don't think that he was making that much money with what he was reported to be selling.
He did buy quantities of the same kind of firearm and some of his sold firearms were ending up in the possession of prohibited persons.
That will get you on the ATF radar screen.

Looks like he wanted to play FFL without an FFL.
Still, ATF didn't have to do the early AM drama.
Sad deal.

 

[CamoDeafie]

ATF SWAT raid that killed Arkansas man raises more questions of excessive force - Second Amendment Foundation

by Lee Williams Bryan Malinowski, the 53-year-old executive director of the Clinton National Airport in Little Rock, Arkansas, died two days after exchanging gunfire with ATF agents who raided his home at 6 a.m. Tuesday morning. His death raises questions about whether he knew he was trading...

saf.org

Brother of airport director shot by ATF agents speaks out about shooting

The brother of the Little Rock airport executive shot by federal agents serving a search warrant says he fears his brother may not survive

abcnews.go.com

Search warrant, affidavit released after ATF shootout, detailing Little Rock airport director Bryan Malinowski’s buying and selling of guns | Arkansas Democrat Gazette

The federal affidavit filed in support of a search warrant for the home of the executive director of Bill and Hillary Clinton National Airport/Adams Field, leading to his fatal wounding when gunfire erupted, alleged that he had bought more than 150 firearms and resold many illegally without a...

www.arkansasonline.com

 

[Yarome]

Personally, I have very little sympathy for any individual that decides to shoot at a law enforcement officer who is serving a search warrant. I don't care what the search warrant is in regards to, the way the legal system is designed is that point gets argued and decided at a later date in front of a judge in a courtroom (and then an appeals court if you don't like that decision). The legality is not open to debate during the execution of the court ordered search...
An extremely poor decision by the homeowner to fire a weapon at an officer doing his job. I am totally in support of law enforcement going home alive at the end of their shifts.

Have you ever been in a situation of complete disorientation with shouting going on that doesn't immediately quite register(?)
Have you ever been in a situation where your subconscious "fight or flight" instincts are truly triggered(?)

It's not unreasonable that he didn't feel he was doing anything incredibly wrong, and also not unreasonable that he was simply going about his everyday, comfortable, middle class life without much care in the world. Devoid of the heightened situational awareness and senses that may be more common among those that are fully aware of the gravity of their actions and are in a constant state of preparedness and anticipation of such an occurrence.

IOW, mentally unprepared for what he was faced with.

Simply being aware of the possibility and having it play out in your mind beforehand can greatly impact a persons reactions.... in the moment.

What if it did register they were shouting "federal agents".. or similar? Does he believe it or does it seem outside the realm of possibilities that LE would be busting down his door in such a way? We know that criminals are known to declare themselves as LE in a ploy to put a potential victim off guard. Did that have any play in his thought process?

We have also seen it often enough where alphabet agents have been dressed in regular street attire with nothing more than a vest to identify themselves. In that moment, did they appear to be what they claimed or did the man actually only see some guys in a mix mash of street clothes, jackets and firearms rushing him?

We'll never know.

I "can" say that I don't personally foresee any reason LE might have to break in my front door. If someone was doing so... I know that my own default thought would be, "bad guy"! In a similar situation I also don't know if I would believe anyone claiming to be LE at face value.

Case in point:
Just last summer I had a knock on my front door near midnight. A bright light was shining on the peep camera so I couldn't see out and claiming to be LE. I knew of absolutely no reason for them to be there so my "trust but verify" policy kicked in. Before I would go to or open the door I told them to drop the light, step back from the door a few feet so I could get a full head to toe view... and even though they appeared to be in proper uniform I made them turn to the camera so I could clearly see their agency badge.

It was the 4th of July and, as it turn out, they were just investigating illegal fireworks that were reported going off somewhere in the vicinity of our home. Our lights were on, they saw we were awake and just "fishing" if we knew anything. However, not all criminals are idiots and you really can't be too careful, IMHO. YMMV


Call me a cynic, but I bet there are a few alphabet agents and some of their higher ups that are going to view this situation as a "win". Shoot someone's dog or toss some lead into someone's brain pan every once in awhile will feed the fear factor and keep a lot sheeple from coloring outside of the lines.

After all... it's not as if they aren't going to get away with it, anyway.

 

[bradsteen]

ATF SWAT raid that killed Arkansas man raises more questions of excessive force - Second Amendment Foundation

by Lee Williams Bryan Malinowski, the 53-year-old executive director of the Clinton National Airport in Little Rock, Arkansas, died two days after exchanging gunfire with ATF agents who raided his home at 6 a.m. Tuesday morning. His death raises questions about whether he knew he was trading...

saf.org

Brother of airport director shot by ATF agents speaks out about shooting

The brother of the Little Rock airport executive shot by federal agents serving a search warrant says he fears his brother may not survive

abcnews.go.com

Search warrant, affidavit released after ATF shootout, detailing Little Rock airport director Bryan Malinowski’s buying and selling of guns | Arkansas Democrat Gazette

The federal affidavit filed in support of a search warrant for the home of the executive director of Bill and Hillary Clinton National Airport/Adams Field, leading to his fatal wounding when gunfire erupted, alleged that he had bought more than 150 firearms and resold many illegally without a...

www.arkansasonline.com

Thanks, the SAF article provided a bit more detail. It's still secondhand, but:

After the ATF SWAT team breached the front door, an agent whose name has not been publicly released shot Bryan Malinowski in the head with what his brother described as a "high-caliber rifle."

 

[Yarome]

Except... we are told that allegedly, the ATF did not knock/alert the dude, only that they busted door down without announcing that they're ATF agents?

No knock is just unannounced forced entry but they would still declare. Identify they are agents with a warrant.

The question really becomes if what they are yelling is going to be coherent yelling over each other or... register for someone in extreme "fight or flight" mode only perceiving multiple armed individuals crashing into their home, or not.

 

[MTpockets]

"Sky Mall" doesn't seem like a very weapon dealer'y name." ~the Merch 'o'Death

 

[gearhead]

And side note: If your selling guns to gangs and other ne'er-do-well's WTF would you leave the SN on the guns!

Ask Eric Holder.

 

[FATAL125]

None of us kicked in any doors this morning.

I kicked up (the volume) on some Doors this afternoon. Not sure that counts though...