Alphabet no knock warrant shootout, agent and homeowner injured

[Yarome]

I hope this isn't a duplicate posting, but did others catch that no knock warrant fiasco the other day?

Arkansas airport executive director's home was raided with a no knock at 6am and opened fire at agents. They fired back, hitting the homeowner who remains in critical condition. Other sources reported the guys brother as saying it is not known if he will survive.

Very few details are being released. Simply that they were serving a warrant as part of an investigation.
At one point, firefighters were seen entering the home with a saw and pry bars that is being assumed was for attempting to open a safe(?)

Providing that the guy was actually guilty of something, tell me again why a no knock in the wee disorienting hours is preferable to just detaining the guy as he exited his home to go to work... or some such... I forget.

Arkansas airport executive director dies after Little Rock home shootout

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said agents were trying to serve the warrant just after 6 a.m. at a home in west Little Rock when someone inside the home fired gunshots.

www.cbsnews.com

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[Val1884]

The dog looked at a agent cross eyed while on a walk. So they got the green light.

 

[vanlab]

Sus

 

[Knobgoblin]

Playing door kicker is a big part of the attraction for some people's kids.

 

[Alexx1401]

I was just reading this and thought same thing, stinks bad. Brother said he was a gun person and had lot of them. If Feds felt he had something he should not why they needed to kick the door is beyond me. Walk up to him at work, say we have warrant, are going to search. STRONGLY suspect they wanted to play cowboy, kicked in the door, he woke up and thought it was home invasion. If this is as I suspect, they stepped on their johnson playing cowboy they will no go into full cover up mode and start lying.

 

[L84Cabo]

Sus

HIGHLY Sus. Especially given that it's the ATF and I trust them about as far as I can throw them.

Why does a man who makes $250K a year need to be involved in anything illegal?

Unfortunately his prognosis isn't good and he will probably die. And we will NEVER know the truth of what went down here.

 

[Alexx1401]

HIGHLY Sus. Especially given that it's the ATF and I trust them about as far as I can throw them.

Why does a man who makes $250K a year need to be involved in anything illegal?

Unfortunately his prognosis isn't good and he will probably die. And we will NEVER know the truth of what went down here.

News is saying he is not going to make it. Even if he did nothing would change. No mater what he said the feds would say its not what happened. A home like he had would make me suspect he would have some camera's. Will be VERY interesting to see if the footage ever sees the light of day. Suspect the feds already took control of it.

 

[Val1884]

Just remember the guys that shot a woman holding a infant an burned kids alive for "safety" will always have an excuse how they are the victim.

 

[lucusloc]

Did they have any evidence that he was a dangerous individual. I don't even care if he was guilty (of what exactly?), what is the point of a no-knock if you can just grab the guy on his daily routine and serve a warrant at his house at the same time? This no-knock stuff is stupid for any warrant save one where they can show evidence of a presently armed and dangerous criminal. Anyone else can be picked up in a much safer situation. These agents should be prosecuted on that fact alone, and that is before we get to the presumption of innocence this guy should have had.

 

[JeremyK]

Been reading about this; not outside of the realm of possibility that it's yet another ATF f???up, and there is a media gag order to protect them. Then the media will say the guy that got shot was a white nationalist to ruin any sympathy for him, case closed.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Who the hell keep signing off on "no-knock" warrants at stupid hours of the day???

 

[FATAL125]

Why does a man who makes $250K a year need to be involved in anything illegal?

Well he didn't NEED to, but that doesn't mean he isn't...

Not saying this guy was doing anything illegal. Just generally saying annual salary doesn't dictate good or bad behavior.

Pretty sure the make a wish recipient who's playing president right now makes $400k a year... and well... ya know...

 

[vanlab]

 

[TTSX]

Eventually, there are going to be a whole awful lot of dead agents when they no knock the wrong house at the wrong time and are seriously outgunned by the wrong kind of people.

I agree with Alex that they could have just nabbed him when he left the house in broad daylight or just found him at work.

 

[lucusloc]

Well he didn't NEED to, but that doesn't mean he isn't...

Not saying this guy was doing anything illegal. Just generally saying annual salary doesn't dictate good or bad behavior.

Pretty sure the make a wish recipient who's playing president right now makes $400k a year... and well... ya know...

But a large legitimate income does highly correlate with someone who is likely to participate in the legal system when charged in a normal way with a crime. So what evidence did they have that this guy was an extreme violent risk that necessitated a no-knock raid?

I am skeptical enough of the situation to think that this was a political hit on a guy making waves for Big G, and his death in the raid is more "intended outcome" than "tragedy."

 

[FATAL125]

But a large legitimate income does highly correlate with someone who is likely to participate in the legal system when charged in a normal way with a crime.

Yeah, maybe so. Again, generally speaking, what intelligent and highly paid criminal wouldn't have a "legitimate" front...

Rhetorical... too tired to debate tonight.

So what evidence did they have that this guy was an extreme violent risk that necessitated a no-knock raid?

No idea. Doesn't really matter, cause whatever story they conjure up to defend the actions I probably wouldn't believe anyhow.

his death in the raid is more "intended outcome" than "tragedy."

I'd wager this is the case in the majority of no-knocks...

 

[lucusloc]

what intelligent and highly paid criminal wouldn't have a "legitimate" front

I will leave this response in case you want to engage tomorrow;

What intelligent and highly paid criminal is going to go all violent kamikaze when they get snagged by the law? Most of them are going to be smart enough to know they have a decent chance of at least getting reduced sentences in court. It's the low level street thugs that go all cornered rat and decide they would rather just die. You want to do a no-knock on some section 8 housing over some drug/arms dealer? I find that believable enough to give it a pass. You try the same thing on a high level .gov employee I am going to have questions about your priorities. . .

 

[FATAL125]

What intelligent and highly paid criminal is going to go all violent kamikaze when they get snagged by the law?

Probably one that had his door kicked in while he was sleeping I would imagine...

It's the low level street thugs that go all cornered rat and decide they would rather just die.

Yeah, but these retards aren't getting no-knocked... They're the ones getting grabbed and/or raided in broad daylight. Still might result in a shoot out cause they're... well retarded... but they saw it coming.

 

[lucusloc]

Probably one that had his door kicked in while he was sleeping I would imagine...

I find that to be statistically unlikely. Which means they should have a higher standard to meet when it comes to getting approval for any kind of raid, let alone a no-knock. I am not saying it is impossible, just improbable enough that they should know what these kinds of shenanigan look like and be prepared to fully and irrefutably justify their decision. "We read one of his social media posts and it did not give us the warm fuzzies" is not enough justification to decide to raid a guy whom you could likely just call and have come in for a scheduled arraignment.

Yeah, but these retards aren't getting no-knocked... They're the ones getting grabbed and/or raided in broad daylight. Still might result in a shoot out cause they're... well retarded... but they saw it coming.

Our entire system of federal law enforcement is bass-ackwards. It does not get much better as you move down the chain to state and local departments either.

 

[FATAL125]

I find that to be statistically unlikely. Which means they should have a higher standard to meet when it comes to getting approval for any kind of raid, let alone a no-knock. I am not saying it is impossible, just improbable enough that they should know what these kinds of shenanigan look like and be prepared to fully and irrefutably justify their decision. "We read one of his social media posts and it did not give us the warm fuzzies" is not enough justification to decide to raid a guy whom you could likely just call and have come in for a scheduled arraignment.

The term "higher standard" will never correlate with anything pertaining to the government.

I dont know what this guy did or didn't do and none of us ever will. His story isn't the first and it won't be the last.

Our entire system of federal law enforcement is bass-ackwards. It does not get much better as you move down the chain to state and local departments either.

Yes