Why low capacity for home defense?

[Geardo]

If you shoot someone that is unarmed just because they are stealing property and not a threat (at least not a verifiable direct threat) you are probably going to find you have a lot of legal problems to contend with.

That's the big problem that having so many untrained people with guns (I'm not saying you are untrained, but as a general statement) for home defense, most haven't a clue when it's legal to use or even show their firearm. And out of the thousands, if not millions that are bought for home defense, I'm going to guess only a very small percentage of those have had any training and would know what to do or be able to do it.

The main objective of the hype about home defense is to sell guns and ammunition and all the other peripherals that get sold when someone buys a gun or two or three. The gun industry and the groups pushing the sale of all kinds of guns that really have little use other than using up a lot of ammunition or mowing down a horde of zombies (and there are no zombies in the PNW, they don't like rain and cold) use the fear factor about home defense, just like the insurance industry uses it to sell insurance.

And like everything else in life, it's not black and white and there is some truth to having protection available when it is needed, but statistics show that it isn't needed any where near as much as some people want you to think it is. Maybe 75% of those on this forum think so, but 75% of the people on here is a small percentage of the surrounding Portland area, lot alone the US as a whole.


Mike

Are you aware only 1:30 DGU involve firing a gun? And 100s of thousands of people use a gun in defense every year? (Per CDC)

A lot of what you said wasn't wrong (although it wasn't very tactful) but if it isn't tempered by the positive facts I mentioned it is a little disigenious.

I do agree training is more important than that third or forth gun, both legal and tactical

 

[Mike97124]

All of the above is very true and worth thinking about.
With that said , I still would rather be alive and having to face the problems of the aftermath , then be dead.

And with that said...
Both times I have had to use my house gun , I have been lucky enough to not have to fire it....but I was damn glad I had it and had the willingness and skill to use effectively if needed...And yes there were problems and issues to be resolved even without firing my gun...
Andy

The willingness and skill are both key words, Andy. How many people are mentally prepared to actually shoot someone and shoot them to at least put them down if not kill them? Every time someone pulls that gun out of their night stand or closet or safe or where ever it is to face a noise in their house have to be mentally ready to use it or they might as well have a pillow in their hand. And even if they are mentally prepared they need the skill to do it and not just spray bullets all over the room while the bad guy (if there was one) is long gone.

I wonder how many gun shops bring up this when someone comes in to buy their first gun or first gun in 40 years and say it's for home defense? I'm not saying that it isn't needed sometimes and it isn't the right thing to have at times but I think some people like to over dramatize it and also over glorify it.

Mike

 

[DB is Here]

How many people are mentally prepared to actually shoot someone and shoot them to at least put them down if not kill them?

The same number of people prepared to be abused, hurt or killed when they don't have a gun....What'd I win?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

The willingness and skill are both key words, Andy. How many people are mentally prepared to actually shoot someone and shoot them to at least put them down if not kill them?

I was speaking of myself only...I would not care to presume of others...it does not matter to me if someone else can or can not....
Edit to add...
It might be better to say that it is not my affair or business if someone can or can not...
Andy

 

[Mike97124]

Are you aware only 1:30 DGU involve firing a gun? And 100s of thousands of people use a gun in defense every year? (Per CDC)

A lot of what you said wasn't wrong (although it wasn't very tactful) but if it isn't tempered by the positive facts I mentioned it is a little disigenious.

I do agree training is more important than that third or forth gun, both legal and tactical

I don't know what you mean by 1:30 DGU?

I'm sorry you think I was be disingenuous (I think you mean I wasn't being generous by agreeing with others) and that I wasn't very tactful. I'm just stating my opinion (and that is all it is, my opinion) like everyone else does. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or change the world (neither one isn't going to happen). Or did you mean I was being disingenuous to zombies when I said they don't like cold and rain? Nothing personal against zombies, but when was the last time you saw one in the PNW?

Mike

 

[Diamondback]

If you shoot someone that is unarmed just because they are stealing property and not a threat (at least not a verifiable direct threat) you are probably going to find you have a lot of legal problems to contend with.

That's the big problem that having so many untrained people with guns (I'm not saying you are untrained, but as a general statement) for home defense, most haven't a clue when it's legal to use or even show their firearm. And out of the thousands, if not millions that are bought for home defense, I'm going to guess only a very small percentage of those have had any training and would know what to do or be able to do it.

1:30 DGU mans only ONE in 30 Defensive Gun Uses goes all the way to "Bang!," the other 29 mere presentation of the weapon is sufficient to end the encounter.

When somebody kicks your door in in the middle of the night, it's reasonable to assume they're not gonna take being interrupted well... property-crime is mid day when the homeowner's away at work, invading an occupied structure at night indicates willingness to do harm to the occupants.

Let me guess... "nobody NEEDS an AR15 'cuz you can't hunt deer with 'em," right?

 

[No_Regerts]

If you shoot someone that is unarmed just because they are stealing property and not a threat (at least not a verifiable direct threat) you are probably going to find you have a lot of legal problems to contend with.

That's the big problem that having so many untrained people with guns (I'm not saying you are untrained, but as a general statement) for home defense, most haven't a clue when it's legal to use or even show their firearm. And out of the thousands, if not millions that are bought for home defense, I'm going to guess only a very small percentage of those have had any training and would know what to do or be able to do it.

The main objective of the hype about home defense is to sell guns and ammunition and all the other peripherals that get sold when someone buys a gun or two or three. The gun industry and the groups pushing the sale of all kinds of guns that really have little use other than using up a lot of ammunition or mowing down a horde of zombies (and there are no zombies in the PNW, they don't like rain and cold) use the fear factor about home defense, just like the insurance industry uses it to sell insurance.

And like everything else in life, it's not black and white and there is some truth to having protection available when it is needed, but statistics show that it isn't needed any where near as much as some people want you to think it is. Maybe 75% of those on this forum think so, but 75% of the people on here is a small percentage of the surrounding Portland area, lot alone the US as a whole.


Mike

I totally get where you are coming from in regards to killing over property. As an LEO, I've seen murder for less. Something that starts as a burglary can easily end up a Murder 2 when perp runs into someone and perp kills old lady or whoever they ran into. Seen that several times. Residential burglaries are dangerous and they aren't uncommon up here, especially in the unincorporated areas.

Chances of using your gun are slim, but you are far more likely to use it at home than on the street. I wouldn't be surprised if it were more than 5 to 1.

 

[JedB]

Very true...if I had to use my Hawken or any of my other muzzleloaders and there were more than one threat...
I'd kindly ask that they all stand in line , as my shot has to make more than one copy...
Andy

One Shot
One Club
no problem..

 

[Geardo]

I don't know what you mean by 1:30 DGU?

I'm sorry you think I was be disingenuous (I think you mean I wasn't being generous by agreeing with others) and that I wasn't very tactful. I'm just stating my opinion (and that is all it is, my opinion) like everyone else does. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or change the world (neither one isn't going to happen). Or did you mean I was being disingenuous to zombies when I said they don't like cold and rain? Nothing personal against zombies, but when was the last time you saw one in the PNW?

Mike

Others answered what 1:30 DGU meant. Sorry for the short hand.

dis·in·gen·u·ous
/ˌdisənˈjenyo͞oəs/
Learn to pronounce
adjective

1. not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
   "this journalist was being somewhat disingenuous as well as cynical"

 

[EPS]

I totally get where you are coming from in regards to killing over property. As an LEO, I've seen murder for less. Something that starts as a burglary can easily end up a Murder 2 when perp runs into someone and perp kills old lady or whoever they ran into. Seen that several times. Residential burglaries are dangerous and they aren't uncommon up here, especially in the unincorporated areas.

Chances of using your gun are slim, but you are far more likely to use it at home than on the street. I wouldn't be surprised if it were more than 5 to 1.

And with the drug problem the whole west coast is letting go basically unchecked.
There is more and more home invasions.
And robbery happen every day.
But you won't see that on the main stream media.

 

[EPS]

Oh and by the way my go to for midnight visitors.
Is a Glock 22 .40 Cal with a flashlight and a happy stick .
But truth be told I need to take it to the range more and practice.
And there is a 870 loaded with 00 buck
With in a few steps.

 

[loofa]

I use my 1911 with a 10-round CMC magazine and weapon light. If I need more I've got a KSG with 20+ rounds of mini-slugs/buck under the bed.



P.s. I hate painting.

 

[EPS]

I use my 1911 with a 10-round CMC magazine and weapon light. If I need more I've got a KSG with 20+ rounds of mini-slugs/buck under the bed.

View attachment 560326

P.s. I hate painting.

Nice gun
I got one of those too lol.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Nice gun
I got one of those too lol.View attachment 560382

Why bother with the 1911 when you have a ferocious killing machine stashed away and waiting under the corner of the table?

 

[EPS]

Why bother with the 1911 when you have a ferocious killing machine stashed away and waiting under the corner of the table?

Lol yep that's a old picture.
Sad to say Spike is no longer with us.
We had have him put down last year.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Lol yep that's a old picture.
Sad to say Spike is no longer with us.
We had have him put down last year.

I'm sorry to hear that.

 

[OldBroad44]

Home Defense: A solution waiting for a problem... and when the problem does show up, rarely does the solution fix the problem, rather it spawns more problems than you can imagine wish you had a solution for.

Mike

I tallied the mentions of use of guns to defend against attempted home invasions just in this thread. I've experienced two. PNWguy one. AndyinEverson two. That's five. There may be others even among those on this thread. These incidents were obviously problems needing solutions, not "solutions waiting for problems". All five incidents were solved without firing a shot, by merely presenting the gun, which is the result of the vast majority of defensive uses of a handgun. In all cases, the problem was solved very nicely and spawned no additional problems.

 

[OldBroad44]

One issue that affects what gun people choose for home defense is whether the gun is just for that purpose or must fulfill other functions too. During the time that I was most actively learning and practicing with guns, I did most of my shooting in the woods while hiking or camping, so needed a woods gun. And the woods gun needed to be concealable, as that's advantageous tactically for self defense against humans. And it needed to be fine for self defense against bears, cougars, and feral dogs. I also, when camping, wanted a woods gun that was accurate enough to take small game with. Or to rescue my dog if she got into a tangle with a bear at some distance. So very accurate revolvers in 357 or larger were what I carried in the woods, thus got good with.

I stick with revolvers for home defense because I am so much better with them than semi autos. But that happened because my practice patterns produced a situation in which my home defense guns had to be good woods guns and edc guns too. And in that era, that took a revolver. (These days 10mm semiautos would be an option.)

Actually, when I did go out just to shoot taking multiple guns, I enjoyed the revolvers more, too. I find loading magazines really irritating. Even with mag loading devices. Reloading a revolver is completely different, and to me enjoyable. A contemplative, almost Zen act.

 

[EPS]

I tallied the mentions of use of guns to defend against attempted home invasions just in this thread. I've experienced two. PNWguy one. AndyinEverson two. That's five. There may be others even among those on this thread. These incidents were obviously problems needing solutions, not "solutions waiting for problems". All five incidents were solved without firing a shot, by merely presenting the gun, which is the result of the vast majority of defensive uses of a handgun. In all cases, the problem was solved very nicely and spawned no additional problems.

Mine I didn't even have to clear the holster.
Just lift my sweatshirt and put my hand on the grip
Not a home invasion just a late night stop at a gas station.

 

[EPS]

One issue that affects what gun people choose for home defense is whether the gun is just for that purpose or must fulfill other functions too. During the time that I was most actively learning and practicing with guns, I did most of my shooting in the woods while hiking or camping, so needed a woods gun. And the woods gun needed to be concealable, as that's advantageous tactically for self defense against humans. And it needed to be fine for self defense against bears, cougars, and feral dogs. I also, when camping, wanted a woods gun that was accurate enough to take small game with. Or to rescue my dog if she got into a tangle with a bear at some distance. So very accurate revolvers in 357 or larger were what I carried in the woods, thus got good with.

I stick with revolvers for home defense because I am so much better with them than semi autos. But that happened because my practice patterns produced a situation in which my home defense guns had to be good woods guns and edc guns too. And in that era, that took a revolver. (These days 10mm semiautos would be an option.)

Actually, when I did go out just to shoot taking multiple guns, I enjoyed the revolvers more, too. I find loading magazines really irritating. Even with mag loading devices. Reloading a revolver is completely different, and to me enjoyable. A contemplative, almost Zen act.

You can always switch to the dark side and get a 10 mm GLock or 1911 .
Just saying