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What if the sh** doesn't hit the fan ?

Discussion in 'Preparedness & Survival' started by PolishedBrass, Jul 1, 2013.

  1. PolishedBrass

    PolishedBrass Gresham, Oregon Active Member

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    I think the odds are decidedly that it will since all the facts support it; however ... what if it doesn't?
    What if America has enough grit to fend off the coup that has already happened and in an awakening experience rises up and turns the tide?

    What if we get a restored constitutional republic of the people again?

    Would you keep on fighting for it to stay?
    Would you push the evil from our schools for the next 30 years?

    Who would make sure that this doesn't happen again?

    Should civil responsibility be relearned to prevent this again?

    I am asking because if the "frog water" doesn't boil over into a civil war ... but gets nice and easy again ... who will carry on?

    Will we just go back to sleep again?
     
  2. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    In a way I suppose there are two questions you pose:

    First, would S ever HTF?

    Afterwards would we return to a constitutional republic?

    To answer the first: I don't think the S is ever going to HTF in the way most people expect. At this point, the chance of a global nuclear war is slim, and as far as we have seen there really are no natural disasters that are significant enough to really bring home all the dire predictions of even the most depressed expert. The japanese earthquake of 2 years ago actually changed the shape of planet earth, but other than making hard drives and other electronic parts more expensive the net effect was zero on this side of the pacific. And the same would be true for a major event in cascadia.

    Really the only events that will effect a "reset" akin to what most people would classify as SHTF would be a sudden and dramatic change in climate (even the most dire global warming predictions are going to take hundreds of years), a spacerock the size of the one that wiped out the dinosaurs (I'm not really sure I want to consider this), or a global pandemic plague akin to the black death. All of these are so remote they belong to the realm of fantasy.

    The risk posed by economic upsets is also equally remote. If you have someone who owes you money, do you kill them and write off all their debt or do you rough them up until they start paying? Greece hasn't fallen, it hasn't even been kicked out of the eurozone, but the germans are sure beating up on them.

    Returning to a constitutional republic:

    I agree, that reestablishing a strict constitutional role for government is necessary for our future prosperity, however that's the key, it's not required for our future as a second rate nation, it's required for us as a civilization to prosper. I think mexico is going on 200 years as a corrupt kleptocracy that offers prosperity for the few on the labors of the many, there's really no reason why the US couldn't fall into the same model and given our current path it seems like a reasonable outcome. Taking mexico as a model for a post federal state in the US is fairly reasonable. Despite a relatively weak federal government, and periodic regional rebellions, mexico is still a de-facto state, and it's one I think few americans have any desire to emulate.

    In the context of reestablishment of a constitutional republic after SHTF, I consider this even more remote than SHTF. My reason for saying this, is look at most states that have had meltdowns in a vacuum, France didn't create a constitutional republic after they executed all the royalty, they had a good 30+ years of wars, terrors and insanity. Russia didn't have a revolution and establish itself as a constitutional republic, neither did burma. In fact, as near as I can tell every time SHTF, the default result is a tyranny.

    However, at this point, we have other options besides armed rebellion, that being the political process, however success requires very high levels of commitment, communication, organization, logistics and resources. Much like a normal war, you need to make allies, fight battles, know when to retreat, when to counterattack and most importantly: when to fight. The difference is, right now we can use our voices, our pens, our printers, and the USPS. Trust me, paper is cheaper than bandages, and stamps are cheaper than bullets.

    If we can't bring ourselves to fight this battle, what makes us think we will be able to stand up and fight effectively when government storm troopers are beating down our doors to take everything we have?
     
  3. PolishedBrass

    PolishedBrass Gresham, Oregon Active Member

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    Well said.

    My SHTF was more akin to financial collapse and marshal Law etc.
    (The damage being greater to the Constitutional Republic than a cascadia or madrid fault event)

    AND ... yeah ... once it is over (collapse and or purge) ... TPTB will just rule is whatever way their masters dictate ...
    Happy unwitting slaves are the most beneficial ... so it is likely to head that direction again IMHO.

    My 1st hope is through a Political reformation process.
    (The old process is akin to diving for pearls in a pool of pig manure;
    so I hope to see reformation that will drain the pig manure and wash the infected waste from the pearls
    before putting them in the mouth of the next breed of politicians.)

    My 2nd hope is that either a Military Constitutional Coup or "We The People" uprising stimulates the former mentioned process or supplants the current coup.

    After that I hope to have a standard of living that cares for my family and be located where we are all safe and healthy.

     
  4. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    I think the "S" hit the fan the day Obama was elected. Now we wait for the fall out......
     
  5. Nick Burkhardt

    Nick Burkhardt NE Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Still good to be ready for natural disasters and man made shortages.
     
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  6. RBid

    RBid Wilsonville, OR Well-Known Member

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    I'm probably in the minority at NWFA, because I don't believe that we'll see a true collapse. I definitely believe we're in the early stages of a dramatic decline, but I don't think we'll wind up having an SHTF scenario as many people view it. I recognize that it is entirely possible, but I believe that the U.S. addiction to structure and convenience won't allow more than a political reset and permanent economic tier drop. I don't think the masses here are hardy enough to try to live without a powerful, Big Government. If one group fell, these people would throw themselves at the feet of anyone who promised the next gen iPhone, and a return to regularly scheduled Kardashian programs.

    Having said all of that, I believe that we should, as a nation, reestablish a Minute Man tradition. I believe in raising our children and future generations so that they have the skills, awareness, and fortitude to be the keepers of this nation. Whether an armed revolt is necessary in my lifetime is not critical to me. So long as it is a possible necessity for future generations, I believe that it is up to us to keep a tradition in place that puts them in position to do so, if that is ever what is called for.


    I guess the point of this post is simply to say, I think that we have to live as though it could happen, and must raise future generations with the awareness that it could happen.
     
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  7. PolishedBrass

    PolishedBrass Gresham, Oregon Active Member

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    Well said.

     
  8. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    Obviously, politically reversing the course is the optimum. But, at this pace it is very likely there will be an economic upheaval. It won't be about a foreign war like in the 60s. it will be many people won't be able to get all the goods and services they usually can with a debit card,etc. Patience waiting for Uncle Sugar to relieve their stress will wear thin. Then the don't haves will try to take from the haves. So lots of civil rest ensues and if I am Russia or China then is when I make my move. I seriously doubt our current form of government has the stones to start lobbing silver bullets to stop an invasion. its unwilling to even defend the border. I do think certain states will stand on their own; with decisive leadership, others will dither. A true, harsh depression is coming, I don't like it, but the historical signs are there. 2007 to 2008 crisis' lessons were not learned I fear. We are looking more like the late Roman Empire more and more these days... the new Praetorian guard is in place with 2 billion pacifiers on order.

    Brutus Out
     
  9. lucifermonkey

    lucifermonkey Portland, OR Well-Known Member

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    If the sh** doesn't hit the fan it will definitely hit the turbine behind it!
     
  10. michaels

    michaels oregon Active Member

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    What do you mean s*** won't hit the fan!
    F*&^&& that!
    Do you know how many websites have promised me meltdown!!!
    I'm so depressed.

    I think s^*** has already hit the fan, but the thing is, america won't go out with a bang, it'll go down in a long slide.
    One that we've been on for a while.
     
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  11. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    So there I was in the desert on Dec 31 1999, dancing around a giant bonfire drunk as ted kennedy on a wednesday shooting my AK47 at parachute flares.

    I felt pretty let down also, but hey it was a good party.
     
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  12. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    Watch: Abortion Supporters Chant ‘Hail Satan!’ While Pro-Life Activists Sing ‘Amazing Grace’ Outside Texas Capitol

    Jul. 2, 2013 11:44pm Jason Howerton Share


    The abortion battle in Texas was still raging Tuesday as both abortion supporters and pro-life activists flooded the State Capitol to make their voices heard. The Texas House and Senate reconvened briefly for a special session called by Gov. Rick Perry.
    One of the more bizarre tactics used by pro-abortion activists involved chanting “Hail Satan!” to harass a pro-life crowd as they sang “Amazing Grace.”
    Texas blogger Adam Cahm was able to capture the “Hail Satan” chant on video. Watch it here:

    “It’s been a very interesting day at the Texas State Capitol. Cahnman’s Musings hasn’t been following the hearing. Instead, we’ve been participating in the surrounding events,” he writes. “LetTexasSpeak has been doing a live broadcast from the rotunda where women have been sharing their abortion related testimonies. The pro-abortion crowd has responded with repeated chants of ‘hail Satan.’ It’s taken us all day to get a video recording…”
    Obviously, it is much more likely that the abortion supporters were chanting “Hail Satan!” to mock pro-lifers rather than actually hailing Lucifer, but anything is possible.
    And there was plenty of discussion about “Hail Satan” on Twitter. Twitchy has the details.
    The pro-abortion crowd also brought some really interesting signs to the rally (Some are offensive
    __________________
     
  13. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    Economic Collapse resulting in conditions far worse than the Great Depression is a mathematical certainty (specifically the collapse of our currency).

    Obama official quote - "Our plan is to kill the dollar" - it doesn't get any plainer than that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_I67IQmKTk

    The fake US economy is stuck in a Catch 22. If the private cartel of slimy bankers aka as the Fed keep printing QE1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 infinity, the dollar is destroyed. You don't have to be a economist to figure that one out.

    If they slow/stop printing/digits out of thin air the economy will implode because the Ponzi money printing is all that is holding up this corpse of an economy. Bernie is dead. The bankers are just moving funds back and forth and falsely propping up the stock market to give the appearance of life so they can continue their looting.

    The foreign banking cartels that own this nation will decide when and how to bring the US to its knees based on control and profit. All on their timetable.

    None of this has anything to do with what puppet is currently the POTUS. Comparing the true power of the bankers/Fed with the POTUS is like comparing the McDonald's corporation to Ronald McDonald. Ronald is the clown for the cameras only. Ronald makes no important decisions and can/will simply be replaced by another clown with the same purpose/agenda. We have no real choice as to what puppets is utilized. They are pre-selected and placed into 'power', not elected. Hating/focusing on the clown is just pure ignorance.

    Although many of us prepare the best we can - perhaps in vain - we hope that the collapse does not happen in the near future because it will be a horrific event much worse than people can possibly imagine. We are talking deaths on a massive scale from starvation alone. No one sane would make the comment 'bring it on.' Any amount of preparation is to give yourself a buffer only. You cannot store enough food or effectively protect yourself indefinitely for what is coming.

    In the course of coming events please accept the reality that as common stock in the corp aka the United States of America you have NO say. No control of your destiny. We are clandestine slaves only. Given the illusion that we have free will or choice.

    Any individual rights, including the 2A are illusions only. Temporary permissions/liberties that will be removed. All of that can/will be gone within hours under pre-planned events/conditions. Americans are primed and ready to become dominated. They want to be open slaves. To be told what is truth, what is fair, and most of all to hear a false promise of safety. Youth today has been successfully zombied into non-thinking drones typing random text messages.

    Nonetheless, economic collapse is coming, as well as more wars, possible WWIII as our dying Empire lashes out for control of the globe.

    [video=youtube;D71aiYq7jeM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D71aiYq7jeM[/video]
     
  14. lucifermonkey

    lucifermonkey Portland, OR Well-Known Member

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    We need to change your name to "Burt Bummer" :laugh:
     
  15. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    The mantra of Progressives is Death! Revenge! and Educate The Children!
     
  16. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was Abort the Children!

    Brutus Out
     
  17. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    Here's the problem with most of the "economic collapse" theories I've seen...

    We are a debtor nation, if the dollar becomes "worthless" then so does our debt. At the same time, we are also a producer nation, and the goods we produce have value regardless of what the value of the currency is. The people who will be most impacted by a crash of the dollar are those people who buy our treasuries, people on a fixed income, and the service sector.

    Raw materials and manufacturing will have an immediate, but short term upset as the value of the goods will change rapidly, however this is short term and will not last. The biggest possible interruption to production sector will be retailers, who while they will make huge initial gains, may not be able to re-stock without some creativity. If you expect to be able to order goods with a net-30 pay scale where day-to day inflation outpaces this, forget about it. However producers always need things that retailers provide and shifting from a cash based system over to a barter system will be an easy and natural fit.
     
  18. knuckle Head

    knuckle Head southeast Well-Known Member

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    Lets just say for grins and kicks that S does not HTF, ok.

    Well I am better off paid off a lot of debt, put away a nice store of goods in case I lose my again like I have in the past.

    I have lots of tools, toys and stuff to play when I retire in ten yrs and which if I had not cut debt, put away cash, stores and made myself sufficient I would of had of worked for at least 10 longer and that would have less time to enjoy my toys.

    So if it does not hit the fan, who here would be worse off if a bump in life came along or when retirement times comes.

    Personally I cannot see S not htf, when I do not know, how it will start I do not know, what will the initial and over severity be on our population and way of life I do not know. I do know that my gut tells me things are all wacked up, and are going go get worserer and worserer as time goes and that some point people are going to snap, say I have had enough or plain ole flip out over the shock of going from upper middle class to the level of a poor person in a 3rd world country.

    When that happens a believe is when all heck will break lose.
     
  19. lucifermonkey

    lucifermonkey Portland, OR Well-Known Member

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    = worserererer :thumbup: That can't be good. :laugh:
     
  20. cookie

    cookie THE SOCIALIST STATE OF KALI - FORNIA Well-Known Member

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    I doubt there will be a civil war. Too much to watch on TV ya know the Dome Or sports Cable TV shows nothing better !!! WW III is a go because certain people will profit greatly.