Urban SHTF

[CJ1089]

I guess we should just shoot anyone who comes begging, then

Ethically palatable to invade a man's private property and murder him because he and his group were better prepared than you?

You'll be the first one with a 7.62 softpoint through you and it would be a real pleasure

You set the tone, a willingness to pre-emptively kill to facillitate your lifestyle. That is ethically void. You use the word 'murder' to condemn my potential actions and then tell me your act of killing would bring you pleasure? That is sociopathic. Also laughably naive, if I were a predator you probably would never see me. I wouldn't walk up to the door if I intended to 'murder' you, I would hunt you like the dangerous prey you are, using any and all tools at my disposal. You're assumption that a predator would lack the tools to defeat you is dangerously optimistic.

17th century physics and chemistry are all I require to destroy your castle, that and a little time. If you killed a member of my party, it would be necessary to destroy your outpost to avenge the fallen. That is one of the basis for a team/gang/town/nation.

In the ultimate SHTF, which I don't personally anticipate, the ability to peacefully interface with potential threats will be a necessary lifeskill that many here do not seem to have.

 

[CJ1089]

I can not figure out what is going on in this thread... A guy says he has set up his BOL/retreat to be easily defensive and everybody is finding ways to attack him. Survival-ism and self sufficiency go hand in hand. It is a fact that rural areas will not be welcoming refugees from the big cities with open arms when the SHTF. I applaud you Blitzkrieg on your self sufficiency and preparedness.... although I don't want to get shot inadvertently walking onto your property.

There is a big difference between 'unwelcoming' and 'fatally hostile' in my book. I took issue with this notion that an unprovoked violent response would be appropriate. As trite as it sounds, that would just establish a warzone around the fort and everybody ; the righteous preppers, the hapless lost sheep, the scavengers and the predators would pay in blood. Everybody eventually loses everything. Repelling boarders is necessary, same with hunting predators. But the sheep and the scavengers should just be redirected, as peacefully as practical.

 

[biker bo]

" I applaud you Blitzkrieg on your self sufficiency and preparedness.... although I don't want to get shot inadvertently walking onto your property".

That's the problem. He states he will shoot anyone on sight. People like this will be dealt with very harshly.

For all the Rambo's out there in 12" concrete bunkers with this atatude here's something you may want to concider.

Where I live there's a blasting company that keeps its supply's locked in bunkers just out of city limits. How long do you think it will be before all that dinamite , prima cord , caps and fuse's are taken. It doesn't take much to make a shape charge.

 

[coastal steelheader]

Where I live there's a blasting company that keeps its supply's locked in bunkers just out of city limits. How long do you think it will be before all that dinamite , prima cord , caps and fuse's are taken. It doesn't take much to make a shape charge.


I'm thinking you and I need to do some salmon fishing next fall!

 

[pogi]

No one in the outlying areas is going to let an urbanite through.

 

[Boats]

No one in the outlying areas is going to let an urbanite through.

That's a numbers game rural dwellers have never won in all of recorded history. Though there might be a cordon against the city/cities early on, the fact will remain that just as they always have, after a chaotic period, superior numbers will coalesce around a strong man style leader or a council of such. In most cities of any size there are going to be more guns, ammo, ordnance, fuel, new "wealth" of all kinds, and an increased base of knowledge will be available to such people if they eventually want to "tax" the surrounding areas. City-States have proven to be a very durable model for human organization, even in periods of widespread lawlessness, invasion, pandemic, and whatnot.

These "lone wolf" and little packs of like minded wolves holding out against the sea of humanity that surrounds them, even after a massive "die off," are fantasies that completely ignore the course of human history world-wide.

In a long term reset of whatever civilization is to come, unless you become the new Tsar of the PNW yourself, you'll eventually be bending knee to someone with the power to fight you through attrition or you'll be dead.

 

[Burt Gummer]

Poor Blitz - just a guy that wants to be left alone when SHTF and enjoy his preparedness a bit.

Instead, people plot where they can get dynamite to blow him up.

If I feel any bitterness it is toward the sheeple in this country that have assisted the collapse with their apathy and delusion, not someone who has the sense to prep the best they can for what is surely coming.

 

[MikeE]

While the SHTF scenario folks are discussing is theoretically possible, I think it is more likely that this trend is what we face:
The Future of Warfare - Global Guerrillas

The 1% are developing their autonomous ability to deploy violence and control: A world where the very rich and their systems managers live in enclaves and gated communities guarded by robotic weapons that we the tax payers are currently footing the bill for in A-stan and other so-called 'war on terror' weapons testing grounds.
Read Margaret Atwood's great novel The Year of the Flood.
One way to counter to that future is the creation of cooperative resilient communities now. They can be rural, but having lived in the country for thirty years, I saw less self-reliance from most of my hill folk neighbors than I currently encounter in the city. I think there is a good chance that the cities will produce a regeneration, though either location is getting more and more hazardous. On the other hand, like the Lakota said, this is a good day to die.

 

[DirtyBird]

I'm with MikeE. Villager too. The only way to survive the collapse of one society is to start, well, another society.

Something I am struck by is a lot of peoples' implicit assumption that TEOTWAWKI is going to be an even, uniform experience for everyone. I think instead we'll all experience it and react to it in different way. There are likely to be some spots in the country where day labor and refugees will be welcomed, and other places where they're killed, or rounded up and put to work as slaves. Likewise, there are liable to be some cities where folks cooperate and get by, and others where things go south in a hurry.

It's not just competition for scarce resources that make people do bad or good things. Each one of us comes to adversity with their own set of guiding principles. I'd rather be without resources in post-SHTF Portland than I would be in post-SHTF Atlanta. I say that because I believe those Portland liberals would wind up doing a better job cooperating than those SUV driving neocons would do.

One thing that just depresses me all to hell is the apparent glee some folks feel regarding the impending collapse. Blitzkrieg, no offense brother, but you sound a little to eager to start celebrating your preparedness via the murder of hungry people. I've never had to kill anyone yet, but I've thought I might have to a couple of times. Can't say as the experience filled me with joy.

 

[Burt Gummer]

What is sad is while we are busy fighting amongst each other, those who engineered the collapse will be enjoying their 'theatre of war'. As Mongo said, "we are all pawns in the game of life." I have no delusions about being a free man.

 

[unionguy]

I'd check out FerFal who lived through the economic collapse in Argentina. Of course, it depends on what you mean by SHTF, but short of a total collapse Mad Max-style where no society is functional...I agree with him that a city is not a death trap. It's still where most of the jobs will be; even if we have 30-40% unemployment, its where resources will go to first, etc.

But, yes, if its a total collapse...it would be easier to be in a rural/small town setting.

And, I agree...unless you are already there or have good family who can 'get you in'...you won't be welcome.

 

[kenno]

My God what a peissing contest!
A major point that most of you miss is that the uprising will be EXTREMELY LARGE and well planned and will occure nationwide at the same moment in time.
Like the Tet Offensive it will occure on a holiday
Like the Balkan War it will start in the hinterland as well as the citys
Even now WA State's game population is being intentionaly decimated by Native Americans whom the Prentendor Gregorie has given the right to kill any animal, at any time, as long as it is on State Land. This is a GOJFC as animals can be shot on non-state land and then transported away from the site. As there is no oversight/paperwork/tags/patroling anything short of a vidieo taped confession is deemed insuficient evidence for arrest

 

[PaulZ]

Anyone who thinks they are going to bug out onto my rural retreat are in for a huge surprise

 

[PaulZ]

How about the Maginot Line? They never got to fire a round.

You remember the Blitzkrieg so you must remember the Siegfried line. No fortress can stop man.

jj

 

[PaulZ]

How do you figure? With that many people involved the "uprising" will be a chinese fire drill well known to everyone including the "enemy" well in advance.

My God what a peissing contest!
A major point that most of you miss is that the uprising will be EXTREMELY LARGE and well planned and will occure nationwide at the same moment in time.
Like the Tet Offensive it will occure on a holiday
Like the Balkan War it will start in the hinterland as well as the citys
Even now WA State's game population is being intentionaly decimated by Native Americans whom the Prentendor Gregorie has given the right to kill any animal, at any time, as long as it is on State Land. This is a GOJFC as animals can be shot on non-state land and then transported away from the site. As there is no oversight/paperwork/tags/patroling anything short of a vidieo taped confession is deemed insuficient evidence for arrest

 

[PaulZ]

How do you spot one? I watch for Lattes and Volvos myself

No one in the outlying areas is going to let an urbanite through.

 

[Pogue_Mahone]

So a starving family with a couple of infants are going to get the same treatment as a coyote? Move along or get shot? I just don't see it as being so easy. 90%+ of the people encroaching on you won't be armed intruders - or even aggressive in any manner, but helpless, starving people near death.

All for looking out for numero uno at this point, but it won't be as simple an equation as some people think it will be.

So is that the fat welfare mama with chemical dependence issues, that has never held a job, yet continues to pop out children? I'm no martyr. I will not sacrifice myself, or my family to save them. Sorry.

 

[DirtyBird]

I know man - all these effing fatties trying to raid the pantry in my command and control bunker better watch it.

 

[knuckle Head]

Violent crime in D.C. surges in 2012 - Washington Times

 

[A.I.P.]

Obama NEEDS acivilwar so he can start rounding-up the "Middleclass" and turn lose the US military against Domestic Terrorists the Occupy Movement was a recruiting/training campaign for the election cycle.
Occupy has joined with SDS, SEIU and the Weather Underground in planning domsetic violence that will be the 1st step in a very complex operation