Liberal gun club

[Wdbyrd]

Here's another observation. Who do you think Clinton would have nominated for Supreme Court and federal court judges?

ETA Another observation: CLT65 beat me to that point--Dang!

And Another observation--If the Republican run Senate didn't allow any Clinton nominees on to the Supreme court then the liberals would have a 4-3 majority after Kennedy retired.

I like the Supreme Court as it was with Obama in Office.....it doesnt need to be uber right or Uber Left

 

[Wdbyrd]

No new laws were passed. The ATF used existing machine gun laws to lump bump stocks in to that category. Kinda like they did with 7n6 under Obamas ATF.

7n6 change and the bump stock in my opinion is illegal and can be reversed with Court Cases or a New Administration......I do not support a regulatory bans on anything....especially when it redefines things.

 

[MountainBear]

I don't see why the pac-lite won't be as accurate as the 22/45. Steel liner in a rigid aluminum tube.

Oh,

 

[Lilhigbee]

For @AndyinEverson

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Yeah...that's a good way not load a muzzleloader...
Thanks for sharing...!
Andy

 

[Mr Smith]

I'm a liberal, but I no longer identify with the Democrat party (which I guess makes me a Libertarian?)

Nope. Libertarians are definitely not liberals. Liberals don't generally like libertarian takes on things and libertarians are pretty right wing on a lot of issues especially when it comes to government involvement in our daily lives... let's just say welfare would not be a thing if libertarians ran the country.

Example of a libertarians beliefs extremely over simplified: make darn near everything legal. All drugs (even heroine cocaine meth LSD etc), guns (including machine guns, SBR, SBS, DD, AOW, etc.) prostitution, gambling, etc. all legal. Get the government involvement almost completely out of our lives. That means out of marriage too. no more marriage licenses, no more divorce attorneys or any of that crap. no more monthly payments to a past spouse to support them. Still have police forces and laws against theft murder public endangerment, etc.. but for the most part government would be far less involved in your life if a libertarian had their way.

Straight/gay marriage we don't care. Do what you want there. Not the governments business.

I more lean towards libertarian than any other political party. But they are definitely out there on some topics...lets face it...no single political party lines up with everyone perfectly. plenty of us willing to cross party lines on certain issues.

2a and gun rights is not an issue i'm willing to budge one inch on. I'm 100% against registration. Government has absolutely no business knowing what or how many firearms or munitions you possess or where you possess them. After all: the 2nd amendment is there to help us protect ourselves from a tyrannical government. Well why the eff would we want said government to know which of us are armed and how well we are armed? That goes against one of the main reasons we have the 2nd amendment. Registration just makes us a target on their hit list. No thanks. I'm a big fan of 80% receivers just for this reason. Government has no business knowing what or how many firearms I own.

Speaking of that. I'm not a fan of Glock, but I'm really considering getting an 80% to join the family.

 

[NW Backpacker]

Interesting thread. Despite all of the claims that Ds support the 2A, and despite all the pleading to "let's get along", and the claims that "Rs are anti-gun too", the fact is that TODAY the D party, particularly the D leadership and D loudmouths in the news, are extremely anti-2A. Perhaps 10 years ago, before the high profile shootings, a voter might somehow claim that Ds could also be 2A supporters, but not today. It's different now. Ds can lie and give lip service to the 2A, and some may even own a revolver, shotgun, bb gun, or mouse gun, but in any anti-2A vote, 99%+ of Ds in the US Congress will vote anti-2A.

Perhaps we should have a betting pool on which date the D-run US House will vote to pass their latest assault weapon ban:
https://www.congress.gov/115/bills/hr5087/BILLS-115hr5087ih.pdf

 

[Cataphract]

A liberal gun club is a lot like a republican group who supports women's reproductive rights.

There's a surprising number of people who agree with it, but since it's not in the official party platform, it doesn't get much traction at the top, and neither position is ideologically pure enough for the core supporters, so you get kicked from both sides.

The one thing both parties can agree on is that they HATE moderates. The less daylight there is between the two parties the harder it is to cultivate and weaponize distrust.

 

[asbtg]

Want the American so I can swap the stock length on it. My son will be ready to shoot a benched gun in the next year or two. But I want to shoot it until then, so the adaptable stock is a a good selling point.
But I suppose I could not be lazy and just thread one myself...

Gotta say, a 10/22 with a nice target barrel correctly and carefully broken-in with a good can is a truly heart-warming sight! I enjoy shooting thumb tacks at 50 yards with decent CCI's. And stocks are cheap.

 

[MountainBear]

Already have a few 10/22's. And some spendy bolt actions. I just want an inexpensive bolt gun my soon to be 4 year old can shoot (with extreme parental supervision, of course) when he's ready. It will be a year or two yet...

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Wish we were closer MountainBear...
I have two Stevens Model 15's you could have for cheap / some gun work in trade....
Andy

 

[MountainBear]

He has one of those already! I bought him the Springfield version 6 months before he was born!
That's what I'll teach him to shoots iron sights with. Want a bolt gun with a scope to let him play with as well. Also want a threaded one to put a can on...

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Getting back to the OP, as a gun-owning liberal, just to provide one person's view... about guns. I carry for self defense - a G30 in .45 or SP 101 in .357, depending on mood and attire - and I know many of my friends do as well. I believe the 2A is an important hedge against tyranny, and that it's just as important a civil right as the others in the Bill of Rights, and I'm sure as hell not going to sacrifice it for the 1st, 4th, or 5th - or any others - or vice versa. I compete in bullseye and 3-gun, though I appreciate an afternoon of plinking.

I, and many others in the LGC, believe that gun control is an authoritarian stance and has nothing to do with being a liberal; I think many on the anti-gun left have become sadly alienated from firearms and have been suckered by hysterical media coverage and politicians with cynical ambitions. I work hard to persuade my anti-gun friends that guns aren't the problem they have been led to believe they are. I've had some success.

Briefly about politics, because those are hard to unwind from gun issues these days: I get along well with all my conservative neighbors. We care about many of the same community issues, and respect that each other stays off our respective lawns. I help them and they help me, because we live in the same space; being good neighbors goes a hell of a long way toward moderation in other things.

How l vote, like how I spend my money, how I worship, who I love, and what I do in my own home, is none of anyone's damn business unless they're a friend of mine. I'm not being brusque, just private.

Back to gun stuff: I believe a proper rifle wears wood, though I have come to appreciate my AR as a tool. I get nervous when my stock of .22lr gets below 10k. I prefer iron sights, though my old eyes have grudgingly accepted optics on some rifles. I know for a fact that the .45 ACP is the most supremely satisfying pistol round to shoot. (though I admit 10mm has turned my head once or twice)

Thats a brief picture of liberal gun-owning me, and I appreciate being part of y'alls community.

We are on the same wavelength. Welcome aboard.

 

[DuneHopper]

I, and many others in the LGC, believe that gun control is an authoritarian stance and has nothing to do with being a liberal; I think many on the anti-gun left have become sadly alienated from firearms and have been suckered by hysterical media coverage and politicians with cynical ambitions. I work hard to persuade my anti-gun friends that guns aren't the problem they have been led to believe they are. I've had some success.
Thats a brief picture of liberal gun-owning me, and I appreciate being part of y'alls community.

I am glad that you have a positive experience. I know first hand however the Liberal Gun Club is not what it appears.
Maybe you are the exception there, but that group is a radical left in near everything. Making the stance on the 2nd at best, left as well. I tried reaching over there, for quite awhile. Nope not buying it. I am the built your bed now you have to lay in it kinda guy. I came there as a pro-2nd Lobbyist and was shunned. Showing very clear, its not pro-gun as much as it is anti-Conservative on all topics including the 2nd. Perhaps the owners didn't want that? Well they let it happen and their staff and members created a hostile place. Here at NWFA, the owner and staff as liberal tolerant. I am not, so I try and keep my liberal opinions to myself. However trying to paint the LGC as peaceful and unifying, I have to say something. Because it is not what it appears. I think the LGC, more represents dead on what ANIFTA does and that makes clear I am avoiding it. There are members here that are thinning out the ANIFTA members here, but the same names are over LGC and are not reprimanded showing there is a bias over there big time.
I wish unity was possible, but not now, and not for a long time will it happen, for us to pretend is careless.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

I'm for the maximization of personal freedom and responsibility wherever possible. I support absolutely every piece of the Bill of Rights. On the face of it that sounds like a libertarian. On the other hand, I firmly believe that unregulated capitalism results in misery and corruption, and I believe that government should have something to say in that regard. That sounds like a liberal. And yet, I also believe that people are entitled to the fruits of their labor. Gee, that sounds like a conservative. But I also believe that each and every one of us owes something to the society that has protected and nurtured us, guarded our freedoms, and allowed us to prosper. Socialist?

All of these ideas seem to be in conflict with each other. How do we/I balance them? That's the problem, isn't it. We can't just adopt a menu that gives us a label to plaster on our forehead and go about our business. No, we have to stop and think about these things, about policy and ethics and what's moral and what isn't in every individual instance. That's a really messy and difficult situation, having to think about and balance our positions and values all the time, every day. To make things worse, those who have decided to adopt one label or another are constantly kicking us because we aren't "pure" enough.

So the deal is, I refuse to be pigeon-holed. I have my values and positions and I refuse to be pushed into any camp of true believers.

And just as a side note, I don't think it's right for someone to try to derail this thread with irrelevant posts because they don't like the discussion. Are you a believer in freedom of speech or not? If you want the 2nd Amendment to be honored you really ought to be willing to honor the 1st Amendment.

 

[NW Backpacker]

I like the Supreme Court as it was with Obama in Office.....it doesnt need to be uber right or Uber Left

7n6 change and the bump stock in my opinion is illegal and can be reversed with Court Cases or a New Administration......I do not support a regulatory bans on anything....especially when it redefines things.

In a perfect world, where Supreme Court justices followed the Constitution, you could believe both of the above quotes. In the real world we live in, sadly, you have to pick one or the other. They are mutually exclusive in the real world of 2019 because the politically motivated SC routinely upholds all kinds of 2A infringements, violating the Constitution.

Edit: At this time in history, that means with few exceptions, if you want to keep your 2A rights, all Ds, at every level of government must be defeated - from the HOA to the school board to the President of The United States.

 

[Wdbyrd]

In a perfect world, where Supreme Court justices followed the Constitution, you could believe both of the above quotes. In the real world we live in, sadly, you have to pick one or the other. They are mutually exclusive in the real world of 2019 because the politically motivated SC routinely upholds all kinds of 2A infringements, violating the Constitution.

Edit: At this time in history, that means with few exceptions, if you want to keep your 2A rights, all Ds, at every level of government must be defeated - from the HOA to the school board to the President of The United States.

Not really. That us an Extreme View. The Blue Dog Democrat is making a comeback. Conservative/Moderate Democrats Exists still.

 

[The Heretic]

There in lies the problem. I hate to wade into the cesspool of politics, but it comes down to who you vote for and why.

You can be a liberal gun owner. You can say you enjoy it and love shooting. But at the end of the day, the value you place on that right is obvious with who you vote for.

There is more to the Bill of Rights than the Second Amendment.

I think way too many 'conservatives' forget that.

In general, it seems to me (as a Libertarian) that the left respects more of the rights enumerated in the BOR than the right does.

So yes, who you vote for makes a difference, but there are more issues than just gun rights.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

There is more to the Bill of Rights than the Second Amendment.

I think way too many 'conservatives' forget that.

In general, it seems to me (as a Libertarian) that the left respects more of the rights enumerated in the BOR than the right does.

So yes, who you vote for makes a difference, but there are more issues than just gun rights.

The Patriot Act is just as dangerous, and just as unconstitutional as any gun control law. The first, fourth, 5th, 8th, and 10th Amendments are every bit as important as the 2nd. I want USSC justices who interpret the law impartially, and who do not apply partisan politics or social goals to bend the law to a predetermined outcome.

 

[Knebel]

haha HOA omg, i personally think thats THE worst. I cantc understand why someone would want to buy a property, which is his/hers but then have someone else like a landlord tell them what to do with it and what not.... or what not to do ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY. Man, I'm Euoropean and the first time i heared about HOA and looked into that I was just baffeled to understand why this even exists!? I mean I was thinking "that cant be legal!?"