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Weapons progression should (almost) NEVER start nor gravitate toward your own interests (unless those interests are part of a graduated, incremental introduction emphasizing safety and marksmanship with each gun).

Mikej's approach of zero ammo at the start deserves great attention. I would only take issue with his choice toward handguns at the embryonic stage (granting a speculation that this was perhaps the end-goal of his pupils). Another aspect in his favor toward that choice is that he was dealing with adults.

Young people wanna shoot. Young people are impatient for instant results. Equipped with prior safety admonitions and strict supervision, I have found it is best to get them behind an accurate and safe gun as soon as possible. Progress from there with the "carrot" always being more shooting.

Here is a graduated list of guns that I have employed toward getting kids AND adults up to speed. I've spent a lot of time refining it and a lot of thought toward it, primarily because I was not subject to such a comprehensive progression: Poverty dictated that I was taken from BB gun to .22, and then thrown in to the cold deep pool of a steel buttplate .30-30 that hurt me worse than the back of Dad's hand. I shot that gun through a veil of tears more often than not.

1) Air rifle. (accurate and simple). The introductory workhorse here is a single shot Benjamin 342 .22 caliber. Flawlessly accurate, no recoil or report, simple and safe controls. Used car salesmen would call it "the draw": (sucks 'em right in to the whole concept while teaching what a good rifle is capable of).

2) SINGLE SHOT .22: Put the 10-22 in the back of the safe. We don't even want repeater function as a shiny object dangling in front of their face. The option of a second shot should be a closely guarded secret for now. This allows for "conference time" (safety, marksmanship) before allowing the "carrot" again. We are still choosing to learn iron sights as well.

3) Centerfire .22 of minimal or zero recoil (moderately loud report required). (Hornet or even the rimfire WMR is a good choice: .223's are much too loud at this stage). Good idea to stick with iron sights to begin with. This can be the transition gun to optics and a journey backward to the .22 Long Rifle (with scope) may be in order if marksmanship begins to suffer.

4) Centerfire .22 of modest recoil. Yes, you should wait all the way to here before a .223 is introduced. We are still WORLDS away from even considering a semi-auto. Single shot .223's being somewhat unusual, this gun (and the Step 3 gun) is probably a bolt action repeater, but the magazine remains unused until that first shot is delivered accurately every single time.

5) Light deer rifle (.243, .250 Savage, .257 Roberts). Choose a gun and caliber that CANNOT deliver discomfort to the shoulder or face. Low-recoil loads (factory or home brewed) are desirable. At this stage (or late in Step 4) "long range capability" (200yds is sufficient) will be another "draw". The look on a face that has just detonated a gallon water jug at 200 yards is priceless. Here we allow repeated play and we receive the repeated smiles and pride.

Of course in ALL cases, the gun is perfectly sighted prior to introduction. Sight adjustment procedures can be touched on during the process if refinement is necessary, but we want NO misses attributable to the gun. Fumbling with sights rates low on the fun scale.

Defense weapons (handguns, shotguns, semi-autos, etc.) need to wait until all this is learned. A progression of weapons there is also the best approach.

THIS is what I wish had been presented to me so many years ago. It is what I have presented to numerous pupils, and they have rapidly become very good and safe shots much quicker (and often better) than myself.
 
You're encouraging people to he hopeful, to be optimistic. Does that really work when dealing with firearms? Or is being realistic the more prudent option? Not fatalistic, but realist.

Are there people here telling newbies not to buy a gun unless they get training? I missed that part. I know what I wrote, and that was that I am willing to train newbies in the interest of safety, plus I actually enjoy sharing and passing knowledge, and that it is impossible to teach it all in one session, and therefore, I would encourage newbies to seek additional training and watch videos. Other members are telling people not to buy unless they get trained? Really???

I'm not going to go all through this long thread (and others) and find sentences that would tend to have ME, as still being somewhat of a noob, feeling as though members of the group do not trust the up and coming gun owners worthy of being armed unless they get training. Formal training is great, but not a prerequisite for owning a gun. Using a few simple rules and common sense will suffice.

All I'm trying to say is welcome newcomers to our hobby/habbit. Like when I joined in 2011. To all, and no one in particular poster.
 
Welcome to all of the new shooters on this forum!

^^^This^^^

To all new shooters on this forum, please note that any statement that I made regarding concerns about new shooters that are not lucky/smart enough to join this forum and get answers to questions, etc, were not intended to be unwelcoming to the new shooters that have joined this forum, recently, and in any years past!!!

Ya'll are some smart cookies and some fortunate sons/daughters! Welcome, welcome, welcome!!!
 
@SunShineShan82

Do/did you feel unwelcome?

(putting you on the spot here, but your 300pg introductory thread, is that all muddy water under the bridge now because some members are either venting or stating their honest concerns?)

Please don't feel obligated to answer.
 
I'm not going to go all through this long thread (and others) and find sentences that would tend to have ME, as still being somewhat of a noob, feeling as though members of the group do not trust the up and coming gun owners worthy of being armed unless they get training. Formal training is great, but not a prerequisite for owning a gun. Using a few simple rules and common sense will suffice.

All I'm trying to say is welcome newcomers to our hobby/habbit. Like when I joined in 2011. To all, and no one in particular poster.

I don't see you as a noob. How you see yourself.....

@Mikej, I was not asking you to cite posts that would have made you feel that members do not trust new gun owners. I specifically asked if members were TELLING others not to buy unless they had training. Either here, or at the LGS. I asked, mike, because that was your statement. And I did not see it (I might have missed it). All I'm asking is if you specifically witnessed that actual statement. I'm not wanting you to cite it... just asking yes or no.

IMO, members of the group are allowed not to trust others. IMO that is their concern. I would nevertheless hope that they are welcoming to those in their orbit. And welcoming to new forum members. (I'll make a suggestion here that discussions like this be moved to more private forum rooms so as to not be off-putting to new members)

As previously stated tho, I am not going to tolerate being with someone that is spouting politics just because they deserve to be welcomed into the shooting community. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. I'm sorry if writing that makes new members feel unwelcome... it is not intended to, it is just a precautionary against bringing their politics into a shooting session (even if it's just a Bull-shooting session. I have shied away from a few long time friends that started doing this... I just don't want to discuss politics.. with ANYBODY!!!)
 
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About ten years ago my neice wanted to learn how to shoot. I emphasised the safety rules. Women really pay attention and pickup taught gun safety better than men. I started out with my infamous Ruger 22/45 she picked up shooting like most women I introduced to shooting and excelled. The best part was the look of FEAR in her eyes when i brought out the AR. With some coaxing she tried the AR and after about 10 rounds a huge smile appeared on her face and lots of ammo soon disappeared.
 
@SunShineShan82

Do/did you feel unwelcome?

(putting you on the spot here, but your 300pg introductory thread, is that all muddy water under the bridge now because some members are either venting or stating their honest concerns?)

Please don't feel obligated to answer.

I feel welcome by the vast majority. It's more the opinion that new gun owners equates to problems for experienced gun owners for many reasons. So, the stance is negative towards new gun owners and a big assumption is that they may be anti 2A. I am not daunted by their opinion and I am not going anywhere because I want to protect my family, I want to learn from all of you and I am enjoying the banter with the ones I've been chatting with so far. As for people venting or stating their opinions or honest concerns, yeah they definitely can vent and share their opinions and concerns. My comment above about it was in regards to feeling welcome and the assumption that all the new gun owners were anti 2A and just now realizing they needed guns now is probably true in some regards but also not true in some cases. We'd need to look at the data to know whether or not that's true however, can one have an opinion on it? Yes, of course they can.
 
Yesterday after school...
I stopped in at Skagit arms....they were very busy.
Lots of bare spots in the ammo section and looks like lots of guns were sold.

Spent some time with a soon to be new gun owner...he was buying a shotgun for defense.
Lots of questions ....hopefully my answers helped him out , without me sounding like a rude know it all.

Working with him was a bit of a eye opener as some of his initial thoughts , comments and questions were so alien to me....
I went slow and focused on safety and just how to handle and care for the shotgun.
( A Mossberg 500 with a 24 inch barrel )
He was a shorter guy and the length of pull and overall size of the gun , seemed to fit him well...
He was a bit concerned that since the gun wasn't black "like Army and Police" guns that it wouldn't work for home defense.....
We got the last box of buck shot , some #4 shot and a couple boxes of 7 1/2 shot.

I am not sure if I won any hearts and minds ....but I did feel better helping out a guy who was totally out of his wheel house as the saying goes.
Andy


You really helped that guy and I am sure he appreciates it a lot! You've been helping me and you're incredibly patient even when I use the wrong terminology. Both you and @EPS have been absolutely amazing in helping me understand ammo, the guns, etc and I will forever be appreciative to both of you!
 
I decided to put this here instead of in the other section where Shan asked a question because it was too LONG.

Warning: If some people don't like LONG posts - feel FREE to IGNORE me and this one. Thank you!

Dear Shan,

Welcome again!

I can't help you since I never owned a shotgun or a .380 caliber semi automatic pistol.

I have considered buying another TYPE and brand of shotgun on and off in the past though. I did consider a Glock .380 pistol as a gift for my MT husband on and off too. (Back up, second, small pistol for a tall man.)

I just saw your post here and I wanted to welcome YOU and ALL of the other new shooters to this forum again. I mentioned this in the General Discussion area too.

I was a NEWBIE in the late 90's in buying ALL of my own firearms. I saved up and bought about 15 or so guns in a couple of years, shot a LOT of RF and CF ammo on a regular basis at an indoor range (Thirty plus miles one way.) connected to my former gun store, in another state, and joined a Sportsman's Club in another rural county close to my former rural county - home in the boonies.

Prior to that time frame, I used one of my late husband's FEW guns as a 'house gun' (A pretty and reliable Dan Wesson 357Magnum/38Special d/a revolver.) for self defense issues. I knew the basics of gun safety issues and I LEARNED how to SAFELY handle my late husband's 'house gun' on a regular basis. I only shot a few rounds out of it just so I knew how it shot between 357Magnum HP ammo and 38 Special ammo. Recoil and sound even with ear muffs on and safety glasses over my Rx eyeglasses. I shot it at a friend's homestead land - woods with my late husband and C.

I mainly wanted to use his gun as a 'house gun' since I was alone with my dog when he was gone. I loaded that gun every night when I got home from work too. I kept it by me. We never had children so the GUN was always CLOSE TO ME on a table with a spare flashlight.

I was in my late 40's at the time as a NEWBIE - Late 90's. My first gun was a sweet Glock 9mm. I became a high volume shooter for many years too.

I mainly got into shooting and buying my OWN GUNS for SELF DEFENSE REASONS and for the Second Amendment - RKBA issues. I always did support the RKBA as a fairly conservative lady too. From the late 90's and on... I shot and owned many calibers of guns and handguns were MY thing for a LONG time until my hand arthritis and old accident issues got to me. I no longer shoot handguns.

I am a remarried widow. My MT husband's last shotgun was a Remington 870 Marine Magnum. He sold it and no longer has a shotgun but he is considering one again only not in a 12 gauge.

BOTH of us are older people with some handicaps. He thought highly of that model even though he owned many types of shotguns in various brands over the years too. Including the pretty, older REMINGTON Wingmaster shotguns.

I hope that your firearms SUIT YOU and fit you well. That is the most important thing because it they don't suit and FIT YOU - you will not practice as much or really LOVE to practice and learn your self defense shooting and defense tactics.

Plus I did not go through the other long thread yet - what GAUGE of shotgun did you buy?

Did you take some gun safety classes or have a close friend or relative guide you through the BASICS?

I will finish reading this thread (Other section and here too.) and the rest of the forum since I am behind in all of the posts.

The NRA put out a great book on handgun shooting. There are so many GOOD books written by women and men about ALL gun safety rules and LINKS all over the WW Web too.

I have only shot a few shotguns in my life but I know that they have books about that just as much as they do about handguns and rifles!

Take care and good shooting to you!

God bless you and to ALL of the other NEW ladies and gentlemen who are getting into shooting for ANY REASON be it for self defense, for the RKBA issue, for plinking, for competition, for hunting, etc.

Sincerely,

Catherine aka Old Lady Cate
My main rifle:

 
I feel welcome by the vast majority. It's more the opinion that new gun owners equates to problems for experienced gun owners for many reasons. So, the stance is negative towards new gun owners and a big assumption is that they may be anti 2A. I am not daunted by their opinion and I am not going anywhere because I want to protect my family, I want to learn from all of you and I am enjoying the banter with the ones I've been chatting with so far. As for people venting or stating their opinions or honest concerns, yeah they definitely can vent and share their opinions and concerns. My comment above about it was in regards to feeling welcome and the assumption that all the new gun owners were anti 2A and just now realizing they needed guns now is probably true in some regards but also not true in some cases. We'd need to look at the data to know whether or not that's true however, can one have an opinion on it? Yes, of course they can.

Hello again,

Don't let some people discourage you HERE, on any other forum or in your LIFE when it comes to buying your own guns, learning about firearms and shooting safely.

Every person is a NEWBIE in any sport or THING at some time of their life.

And just because some lady or gentleman is a NEWBIE IN BUYING THEIR OWN GUNS and shooting does NOT make them anti gun or anti the RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS! That is a fact not just my opinion.

So you go, girl!

I learned to SWIM at an early age as a baby/toddler. I can still swim very well at 69 years old. Better than some younger folks too!

I learned to sail very well and power boat before I was really INTO buying my own guns and shooting.

That did not make me anti gun - it showed me what my interests were at that STAGE of my life and I was HAPPY for just having a 'house gun' that I liked and understood for home security for a LONG time too.

I was ALWAYS for PRO Second Amendment candidates and I always participated in that SYSTEM even if I was NOT armed with MANY guns or tons of ammunition at a younger age.

Best wishes to you again.

Cate
 
Shan,

To add a little GUN HUMOR here.

I was on a long gone gun forum aka gun board in the late 90's. One of many long gone ones.

A man from North Dakota asked me if I reloaded and I said, "Of course, I RELOAD my gun after shooting it so I can shoot it some MORE!" I thought that he was asking me a really SILLY question. Grin.

The guy said that he meant 'reloading' as in hand loading or making your own ammunition. I said that I did not do that and I bought my factory, name brand and quality CF and RF ammunition.

ALL of the people on that forum got a good laugh about me saying that I reloaded my gun and/or GUNS so that I could shoot some MORE.

I was a HIGH volume shooter for many years.

I learned that BP meant black powder and NOT the BP oil/gas company too. LOL

Some of those guys shot BP on that forum and my own former gun store man (Family owned store.), back east, shot a LOT of black powder and won some contests. Some famous gun company made a GUN for him and it was in a glass case on the gun store WALL. He was in several gun magazines and in the NRA one too. The same man was well known in the area and not just from the Camp Perry (Port Clinton, Ohio) national championship shooters too. Yearly, national shooting contests that is/was pretty famous. People came from all over the country including Alaska and some were still in the military, some were retired military and some never served their country in the military too.

Cate
 
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I think in these times of many in-experienced new gun owners gun shops would set up an information/safety kiosk to 1. Teach basic safe handling
2. Teach good trigger pull(laser mounted on a BLUE Gun)
3. Hand out free chamber flags(teach them to look at an empty chamber.
 

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