A real possibility: you go to jail after a justified shooting. Now what?

[arakboss]

Anyone who can't / won't see the upsides of life in America should certainly vote with their feet, live up to their rhetoric, and depart for whichever location they deem to be preferable. It's kinda silly to remain otherwise. But perhaps there is some backlog in travel availability due to that long list of celebrities that have proclaimed their intent to leave over recent years.

I heard Canada is nice.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

In my mind the view while traveling in other countries, is not the same as living in other countries.

So true! And sometimes even living in other countries isn't the same as *living* in other countries. I knew someone that loved living in Costa Rica when he worked for Intel down there, loved the people and community and all that jazz. But then he went back down to look for a vacation / potential retirement home after Intel closed their plant there and he was shocked by how unfriendly everyone had become in just a year or two. He had lots of rationalizations as to why but never was able to wrap his head around the idea that maybe the locals where only friendly to the money and only tolerated the 'gringos when they spent it

 

[The Heretic]

Si.
Even people who look visibly fit and are explosively energetic can have significant cardiovascular issues

Yup - especially as you get older. I don't look obese, but I am at least 50# over my optimum weight, out of shape (if I walk at a normal pace up a hill for a couple hundred yards, I am out of breath) and besides having blockages, the electrical backup path of my heart isn't functioning correctly. I wouldn't want to bet on what would happen to me if I got tased.

 

[WillametteWill]

Respectfully, it seems the OP has bought into the MSM narrative of just looking at sensational cases. Kyle, Zimmerman, the soldier in TX and other hyped cases make up .01% or less of actual DGU cases that you rarely hear about other than the initial report. Because ultimately they are ruled justified so there is no news value. You also only hear the spin.

There was a case recently where the "defender" turned into the suspect and folks screamed about it. Reading more into it he admitted that he walked out of his house, closed his eyes and started randomly shooting becasue he was scared, with his eyes closed, as they fled. Headlines read, "Man arrested for defending home." No, he was arrested because you can't close your eyes and shoot at fleeing people! In almost all of these cases where the "innocent defender" gets convicted there is a deeper story beyond having Binger for the prosecutor. You can't put, "I might go to Dallas to shoot looters," on your social media, and then actually shoot a protester and think you are not going to have some issues getting an acquittal. Seriously folks.

I've stated this frequently, here and in many other places, we should be spending as much time understanding the law, de-escalation, situational awareness to avoid bad places, and what to do after a DGU (even if shots are not fired) as you do at the range. Too many people just say, "Don't talk to police and call a lawyer." If you research this and decided it is what you want to do, fine (I disagree but respect your decision). But don't be lazy about it. (Hint, the primary reason Zimmerman is a free man is BECAUSE he talked to the police.) Check out Massad Ayoob's videos on what to do after a shooting.

If someone wants to move to a different country, our borders don't seem to stop immigration in either direction, especially out. As for me, and some other long-dead old dude, I'll take dangerous liberty over peaceful slavery. I'm a citizen, not a subject.

 

[trevi]

Pew Pew.

Now what?

Keep your mouth shut and hire a really good lawyer.

Tell me what other countries there are, that give you as much ability to shoot in self-defense legally, and fight for your freedom in court, as the USA.

Brasil, Argentina, South Africa, Turkey, and France..... to name a few.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Brasil, Argentina, South Africa, Turkey, and France..... to name a few.

Can't find where I saw it but Brazil relaxed it's gun laws and let more citizens have guns. Murders went down 34%

 

[The Heretic]

Can't find where I saw it but Brazil relaxed it's gun laws and let more citizens have guns. Murders went down 34%

With their new president that will change

 

[The Heretic]

Brasil, Argentina, South Africa, Turkey, and France..... to name a few.

Turkey - Erdogan? No Friggen Way!

 

[Member 53328]

Respectfully, it seems the OP has bought into the MSM narrative of just looking at sensational cases. Kyle, Zimmerman, the soldier in TX and other hyped cases make up .01% or less of actual DGU cases that you rarely hear about other than the initial report. Because ultimately they are ruled justified so there is no news value. You also only hear the spin.

There was a case recently where the "defender" turned into the suspect and folks screamed about it. Reading more into it he admitted that he walked out of his house, closed his eyes and started randomly shooting becasue he was scared, with his eyes closed, as they fled. Headlines read, "Man arrested for defending home." No, he was arrested because you can't close your eyes and shoot at fleeing people! In almost all of these cases where the "innocent defender" gets convicted there is a deeper story beyond having Binger for the prosecutor. You can't put, "I might go to Dallas to shoot looters," on your social media, and then actually shoot a protester and think you are not going to have some issues getting an acquittal. Seriously folks.

I've stated this frequently, here and in many other places, we should be spending as much time understanding the law, de-escalation, situational awareness to avoid bad places, and what to do after a DGU (even if shots are not fired) as you do at the range. Too many people just say, "Don't talk to police and call a lawyer." If you research this and decided it is what you want to do, fine (I disagree but respect your decision). But don't be lazy about it. (Hint, the primary reason Zimmerman is a free man is BECAUSE he talked to the police.) Check out Massad Ayoob's videos on what to do after a shooting.

If someone wants to move to a different country, our borders don't seem to stop immigration in either direction, especially out. As for me, and some other long-dead old dude, I'll take dangerous liberty over peaceful slavery. I'm a citizen, not a subject.

Truth.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Man calls 911 after shooting 2 people attempting to steal truck from Lynnwood hotel

A man is dead and a woman was taken to the hospital after they were shot while allegedly trying to steal a truck from a hotel in Lynnwood early Tuesday morning.

katu.com

While locally another shooting.

 

[raftman]

It's an interesting question, and I can understand it from a statistical perspective: If there's high risk your right to defense may not end up being recognized; is it preferable to just go somewhere where you're less likely to need to defend yourself in the first place?

Unfortunately it speaks to the success gun control advocates have had. They often prefer the route of not taking away a right outright, but merely adding so many risks and limitations as to leave people wondering whether it's worth it. It's legally possible to obtain a machine gun (in most states), but an extremely small proportion of people think it's worth it. The same principle is being applied to defense (with or without a firearm, for that matter).

To answer the question, in my opinion, it's worth it to stay and try to restore our rights.

 

[po18guy]

Prevention is always far easier than cure.
Situational awareness.
Escape if at all possible.
If all goes bad, shut up and call a good defense attorney.
Watch Massad Ayoob videos.
Inflation is not the only "cost of living" that has gone up.
An allegedly good shooting thar went bad, but later ended up good from 1943:

 

[Knobgoblin]

It's an interesting question, and I can understand it from a statistical perspective: If there's high risk your right to defense may not end up being recognized; is it preferable to just go somewhere where you're less likely to need to defend yourself in the first place?

Unfortunately it speaks to the success gun control advocates have had. They often prefer the route of not taking away a right outright, but merely adding so many risks and limitations as to leave people wondering whether it's worth it. It's legally possible to obtain a machine gun (in most states), but an extremely small proportion of people think it's worth it. The same principle is being applied to defense (with or without a firearm, for that matter).

To answer the question, in my opinion, it's worth it to stay and try to restore our rights.

You don't need to leave the country, just stay out of "town ".

 

[The Heretic]

You don't need to leave the country, just stay out of "town ".

Exactly what I did. People are the problem, the more people, the more problems.

 

[Member 53328]

You don't need to leave the country, just stay out of "town ".

I work in "town."

Keep your head on a swivel and stay frosty. And the minute I'm off the clock I'm outta there. Haha.

 

[RyanG90]

Just identify as a tranny afterwards, they don't want that smoke.

 

[Alexx1401]

We've seen it in numerous cases. Some got lucky they were in the right jurisdiction and were acquitted. Kyle Rittenhouse, George Zimmerman, etc. Others were in enemy territory and were sent to prison for 25 to life.

So that begs the question: is it worth staying in the US anymore? It's obvious the country has gone to hell. Many people I know who visit here tell me they can see how aggressive and violent people are here, especially in King County. From my travels to other parts of the country, the red states are not like this. Many European countries are also not like this. I've never felt the need to be armed traveling abroad.

So here you have a RIGHT to be armed, but it seems like if you use it, there's a 50% chance you're going to prison for life. That's not exactly a life worth living. So what do you do, let yourself get killed because it's better than prison? Knowing the perp will likely be let go because of a legal system that loves criminals and hates the law abiding?

Or....

Do you shoot and take your chances, and if you get convicted, just shrug and spend life in prison?

So where did you come up with the stat that its 50% of the time the shooter gets sent to prison? VERY few people who use a gun to defend themselves get arrested much less go to prison. In 99% of the cases where someone uses a gun to defend themselves and gets in a jam its not the shoot that does it. Its them not being able to shut up and wait for a lawyer. Those who just can't shut up and those who play stupid games to win stupid prizes? They maybe should choose to either not carry or move. Not quite sure what country they should move to though.

 

[Alexx1401]

Merely following a suspicious person in your neighborhood while on the phone with 911 doesn't justify Martin attacking him and breaking his nose, beating him nearly to death. He fired a single shot when the attacker was ontop of him.

Did you forget one important fact here? Did Trevon yank his door open and drag him out of his vehicle?

 

[Alexx1401]

By whom? How so?

Move there and see the real paradise.

 

[Alexx1401]

Can't find where I saw it but Brazil relaxed it's gun laws and let more citizens have guns. Murders went down 34%

Sadly the voters there decided they did not like these freedoms and are trying to vote them away.