YouTuber says go to the hospital after a self-defense shooting??

[WillametteWill]

Mas Ayoob has historically recommended "request evaluation for shock and trauma"--both as a Just In Case, and because it also buys you time to get your head together.

He is also adamant about not lying to get to the hospital. I someone sincerely needs a medic, have one called for. As a practice (based on the video) may not work out well.

 

[Mikej]

"Hate doctors"? What are we? 10 years old? Not the Dentist! That's a different animal.

 

[Diamondback]

He is also adamant about not lying to get to the hospital. I someone sincerely needs a medic, have one called for. As a practice (based on the video) may not work out well.

True, NEVER lie, but the probability is that in the aftermath your head probably won't be as put-together as we'd all hope we'd be. Similarly, no drinks other than water.

 

[The Heretic]

Claim: Go to the hospital because of the stress, you could easily have a heart attack. Possible? Sure. You could also have one going in to get a BigMac as well. Sources on this??? Nope. Common? Nope.

Unless you are a Karen/Ken and get upset over pickle on your burgers - getting a Big Mac is not the same as shooting someone.

As a former first responder, I have seen people fall apart during emergency situations, including other first responders that were part of my crew. Even with people who are trained and experienced, the stress can get to you - which is why many first responders have a short career.

Back then, I noticed I did okay with the situations I experienced - I just did my job and did the best I could, and tried to be calm about it for the most part. But that was 40+ years ago and I had decent health. Today I have issues walking up the hill to put my garbage in the bin once a week, and my cardiologist has me on 5 different meds. I have seen people my age seem okay during emergencies, but an hour or two later collapse.

Granted, the Youtuber was flaky, but that doesn't mean the important part of his advice is false, and it would be good advice for some (many?) people who are at risk for a heart attack to have a health professional keeping an eye on you for a while.

 

[Koda]

Granted, the Youtuber was flaky, but that doesn't mean the important part of his advice is false, and it would be good advice for some (many?) people who are at risk for a heart attack to have a health professional keeping an eye on you for a while.

Yes, but his video is controversial because his video isn't about having a medical reason, he clearly states several times "even if your not injured".

I also am skeptical this is anything the police "dont want us to know".

If he wanted to talk about trauma, shock, or pre existing medical conditions it would have went over well. I dont see anyone disagreeing with those.

 

[lucusloc]

Yes, but his video is controversial because his video isn't about having a medical reason, he clearly states several times "even if your not injured".

I also am skeptical this is anything the police "dont want us to know".

If he wanted to talk about trauma, shock, or pre existing medical conditions it would have went over well. I dont see anyone disagreeing with those.

I think his point is you may not even be aware you will have a problem. High BP and an elevated heart rate can cause issues much later than while you are still on-scene.

 

[Koda]

I think his point is you may not even be aware you will have a problem. High BP and an elevated heart rate can cause issues much later than while you are still on-scene.

His whole video to me came across as advice how to get out of being questioned by the police.

 

[Diamondback]

His whole video to me came across as advice how to get out of being questioned by the police.

I always read Ayoob's point as to make it clear that you intend to give full cooperation but want to make sure you're in best physical and mental state to do so.

 

[lucusloc]

His whole video to me came across as advice how to get out of being questioned by the police.

It was quite a bit more nuanced than that. If you want to get out of being questioned just state "I want a lawyer." Bam, no more questioning. Hell, a good officer won't even let you volunteer information to them after that. They know that any information they get in between you saying that phrase and you talking to your lawyer could be construed by a competent attorney as illegally obtained. It is not worth risking having all your relevant testimony thrown out to listen to you blabber on after you requested council. If that was the only thing he was talking about seems like mentioning the "A" word would be a fare more expedient and bulletproof method to achieve that goal.

 

[DB is Here]

God forbid any of us are in a shooting to save our lives, that said the first thing I'd state is "I'll any questions once my attorney is present".

I'm a back the blue guy but seeing what our local prosecuting attorneys have done in some of these cases, I'll save my responses when my attorney is present.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I just don't know where to begin. Okay, here, someone is talking about an administrative process while wearing a plate carrier with rifle mags. Oh, and a police patch when he is off duty and not speaking in an official capacity. It goes downhill from there.

"Today, you are going to learn, why you should always request, to the police, to automatically go to the hospital, after you have been forced to shoot somebody in self defense, even if you are not injured, and for some reason this is controversial subject." (Then he doubles down and states that if you don't agree, "I just don't know what to tell you.)

I know what to tell you; good for you for not wanting to be liar and destroying any chance you have with credibility of the prosecutor (who decides if you get charged), the jury, judge, your own attorney. Let's get this out of the way, if you sincerely feel you need to have medical treatment, do so. Whether it be for an injury sustained or a medical condition, have medics respond. If they send you to the hospital, it is based on their medical evaluation.

"Then state, I was in fear for my life." Ugh, canned responses are not believable. If you are new to or interested in learning about a much better way to do what he rambles on in the video, check out Mas Ayoob's video on what to do after a shooting. It's only been researched and perfected over the past 50 years. And not by this guy who does not understand the difference (as an officer between homicide, murder, and self-defense). (Homicide - the killing of a person by another...it may or may not be justified...20 year officer...seriously???)

Claim: Go to the hospital because of the stress, you could easily have a heart attack. Possible? Sure. You could also have one going in to get a BigMac as well. Sources on this??? Nope. Common? Nope.

He talks about calming down and how he and his partners had trouble with this, and you will want to be in a calm place. Practice combat breathing.

Bonus tip (seriously, he calls it that): If you go to the hospital the police will have to pay the bill. They may not even respond because they don't want to get stuck paying for your medical services (again, seriously, after a shooting, they are not going to follow up in an attempt to avoid paying your hospital bill???)

Again, if you in any way feel you need medical treatment, get it after a DGU. I think having blanket advice to LIE about medical needs is a recipe for disaster. He wonders why it is a controversial subject. No wonder to me.

Sorry if I'm coming off as a pr!ck but 1.4 millions views, 150k followers, 48k likes (including by a bunch of cops), sigh, I have to address these issues in classes.

I didn't read all your text cuz it's black colored text on my phone but read enough to know you are on the right track imo.

I do listen to folks such as Clint smith and masad ayoob about what to do when the police arrive but random YouTubers who are self proclaimed "experts" I ignore.

Seems to me a person wants to be as cooperative as possible but at the same time only discuss what they need to know Fe my life was in danger and then STFU. "It's not that I don't want to talk to you but that I can't talk to you until I talk to my lawyer. I'm willing to cooperate in every way." Cops do need to know the basic situation so they can deal with it and apprehend the bad guy but beyond that don't say anything. That's how I look at it anyway. Lying and creating games will just make it harder later. One would have to lie under oath to stay consistent with the first lie. Or they say "were you lying then or are you lying now?" Don't lie at all or play games it's stupid and only makes it worse for you.

 

[Xaevian]

I'm a back the blue guy

While I get that sentiment, people should be more "I back the me" guys first.

You are the 1st responder. Police, fire, EMTs come after you had your chance to do whatever you did to be where you were when they finally show up.

 

[DB is Here]

people should be more "I back the me" guys first.

Pretty sure all who exercise their 2A right's would be the definition of "I back the me first" guy. Did I miss something?

 

[Xaevian]

Pretty sure all who exercise their 2A right's would be the definition of "I back the me first" guy. Did I miss something?

You should hear some of the "back the blue, no matter who" comments in here. Lots of 2A people, and anyone for that matter, put unearned faith into groups or institutions just because feels.

I can give you an example I am familiar with if you need one.

 

[DB is Here]

You should hear some of the "back the blue, no matter who" comments in here. Lots of 2A people, and anyone for that matter, put unearned faith into groups or institutions just because feels.

I can give you an example I am familiar with if you need one.

Nope-I hear you loud and clear.

 

[Xaevian]

@DB is Here I don't presume you are in that category, BTW.

 

[DB is Here]

@DB is Here I don't presume you are in that category, BTW.

I figured.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

You should hear some of the "back the blue, no matter who" comments in here. Lots of 2A people, and anyone for that matter, put unearned faith into groups or institutions just because feels.

I can give you an example I am familiar with if you need one.

"I back the blue" also has nothing to do with the prosecutors. In Pdx for example if you fit the narrative you are set free. Recently in CA a woman was set free after fatally stabbing a man 108 times because of "cannibus induced shock" or whatever they called it.

Remember that a very large % of the prosecutors in America wereput there directly due to Soros funding. He wanted to blanket USA with prosecutors that are lax on crime and specially protect certain classes of people. That is fact, not conspiracy thinking btw.

But if you don't fit the narrative the prosecution can go after you independently of whatever the police did or did not do. Lots of examples of that in Pdx also.

Don't assume police are on your side or whatever is what I would say. I assume they are trying to do their job and you have protect yourself at the same time. "My life was in danger", STFU basically.

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[monkeybutler]

Not sure it is more proper to refer to that guy as a blowhard or a blowtard.

 

[WillametteWill]

Unless you are a Karen/Ken and get upset over pickle on your burgers - getting a Big Mac is not the same as shooting someone.

As a former first responder, I have seen people fall apart during emergency situations, including other first responders that were part of my crew. Even with people who are trained and experienced, the stress can get to you - which is why many first responders have a short career.

Back then, I noticed I did okay with the situations I experienced - I just did my job and did the best I could, and tried to be calm about it for the most part. But that was 40+ years ago and I had decent health. Today I have issues walking up the hill to put my garbage in the bin once a week, and my cardiologist has me on 5 different meds. I have seen people my age seem okay during emergencies, but an hour or two later collapse.

Granted, the Youtuber was flaky, but that doesn't mean the important part of his advice is false, and it would be good advice for some (many?) people who are at risk for a heart attack to have a health professional keeping an eye on you for a while.

I understand there can be medical issues after an extremely stressful event, but as @Koda noted, he advises to go to the hospital as an absolute. This is crazy. It is going to make you look like a liar (because you will be if there is no cause). And you just gave the prosecutor the ability to say, "You were lying about needing to go to the hospital, what else are you lying about?" (I have watched lines of questioning go this way dozens of times in real court).

Yes, but his video is controversial because his video isn't about having a medical reason, he clearly states several times "even if your not injured".

This^^^

His whole video to me came across as advice how to get out of being questioned by the police.

And this even more^^^

This information (what to do after a shooting) is important, complicated, and full of nuanced consideration. Few are absolute because you can always find the exception. I comment here because this is a GREAT discussion for people to have and it is important to me to see other people's perspectives. This is also why I teach a class about the aftermath of shootings for my wife's groups and others in the community. It bothers me we people talk in absolutes; in most instances, run from their advice (some exceptions will apply).

Call for medics if you need; understand you will need to justify your actions if they are not clearly justified.