Other State 22 year veteran Police Lieutenant pleads guilty to selling guns without a FFL

[U8395279]

I'd think $200k in Cali wouldn't be much depending on where you live.

I would imagine that the cost of living in Pasadena must be pretty high. Certainly buying a decent home there, would be outrageously expensive.

And don't forget how very high and extensive taxes are in California. How much of that $200k is he really keeping?

You monster! Think of the chill'uns!

I would be thinking of my own best interests, in a matter like this one. I'm confident that the ATF would be happy to prosecute more cases like this one, if it was practical for them to do so.

.

 

[U8395279]

This, from the same website as this story (but a different article) should tell you pretty much everything you need to know:
"Show us that you care and you're going to protect us."
THAT, reportedly, is from a 58 yr-old Republican... so says the article. The story is about "assault weapons", but does that seriously sound like something a 58 yr old would say? A REPUBLICAN?! He's apparently pleading w CA congress-critters, but it reads like fake news to me.

If it's a real quote, then it explains a LOT. If it's made up, then it also explains a few things. I just can't for the life of me picture a 58 yr old American, regardless of party, saying that out loud, to other people, where anyone could hear it, to a politician...

The website belongs to a local ABC News affiliate. I don't believe that it would be realistic, for anyone to dismiss this news report as being fake news.

I'm sure that they probably have some bias and slant in their news. But I see no evidence that this prosecution did not take place.

 

[DuneHopper]

I wish it was fake news, this is the scary part..........just no one here 20 years ago thought selling a private gun item to another person
would become illegals here, and pot legal LOL

 

[MrRob96]

Yeah so what law did they get the guy on? Is there a private party sale limit he broke?

The only other way I could see this being identified as less than legit is if he repeatedly bought the same weapons or maybe he took orders from folks before purchasing and reselling.

Sucks all around.

 

[Alexx1401]

While I "feel bad" he should have NEVER allowed it to get to this point. He is an LEO and has been for a long time. He chose to live in a state that is EXTREMELY unfriendly to gun owners who do not have his privileges. Sound like he used his privileges to beat some or bend some of these laws to benefit himself. Now he lost the privilege, the job, and the ability to have a gun at all. Very dumb to allow it to get this far.

 

[Cavedweller]

Is Oregon now maintaining and keeping a database of firearms transaction in the state? I've heard some reports that Oregon is now saving this information for a limited time period.

The OSP used to keep records of transactions for six months. in 2016 Kate Brown signed an executive order mandating that those records be kept for 5 years.

https://www.oregon.gov/gov/Documents/executive_orders/eo-16-12.pdf

 

[RVTECH]

in 2016 Kate Brown signed an executive order mandating that those records be kept for 5 years.

My question is IF these 'records' can or will catch a sale if there is a 'gap' in the names it previously sold - or was bought through. Say one buys a gun legally, then later sells it with no FFL, then the new buyer tries to sell it through an FFL - will the system say 'catch' the new seller as not being the original buyer?

 

[U8395279]

I wish it was fake news, this is the scary part..........just no one here 20 years ago thought selling a private gun item to another person
would become illegals here, and pot legal LOL

My, things have truly changed a lot in the 6 1/2 decades that I have been around.

 

[U8395279]

The OSP used to keep records of transactions for six months. in 2016 Kate Brown signed an executive order mandating that those records be kept for 5 years.

https://www.oregon.gov/gov/Documents/executive_orders/eo-16-12.pdf

In that case, I think that this sort of prosecution could happen right here in Oregon, too. The only limit is that only the last 5 years of records would be available.

But that was all that was needed, in prosecuting this case in California.

 

[U8395279]

The San Diego Union Tribune newspaper is the news agency that originally broke this news story.

Here is an in-depth report all about this, when the case first came to public light. It turns out that the AFT actually raided the officer's home, confiscating guns and other evidence.

This story provides a lot of background info on this issue, and explains why AFT is cracking down on police officers who engage in gun sales like this.

ATF's focus on firearm sales by police may be tied to gun seizure at Pasadena officer's home

 

[U8395279]

Here is what the ATF itself says on their website about when a person needs to get a FFL:

============================================

Determining whether you are "engaged in the business" of dealing in firearms requires looking at the specific facts and circumstances of your activities.

As a general rule, you will need a license if you repetitively buy and sell firearms with the principal motive of making a profit. In contrast, if you only make occasional sales of firearms from your personal collection, you do not need to be licensed.

Courts have identified several factors relevant to determining on which side of that line your activities may fall, including: whether you represent yourself as a dealer in firearms; whether you are repetitively buying and selling firearms; the circumstances under which you are selling firearms; and whether you are looking to make a profit. Note that while quantity and frequency of sales are relevant indicators, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold, or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors were also present.

Dealing in firearms without a license is a felony crime, and is punishable by up to a maximum of five years in prison, a fine of up to $250,000, or both.

==============================================

 

[nwslopoke]

So can he

ATF's focus on firearm sales by police may be tied to gun seizure at Pasadena officer's home

When they have to look at their own laws, even they have to say, what? This doesn't make any sense. But having the ATF investigate the police when they both have the same privilege? Who's investing the ATF? I wish I had a meme of a wolf guarding a henhouse.

 

[RVTECH]

Although police officers aren't prohibited from selling off-roster guns to members of the public

Someone please explain this to me as I really do not understand the 'roster' laws for California. If a gun is 'off roster' I thought a California citizen COULD NOT own it.

 

[WillametteWill]

Off roster guns cannot be sold by a dealer, as in Colt or a distributor cannot import a new gun into CA, delivering it to a dealer, for sale to the public. Once a gun is lawfully in CA it can be transferred by private party transfer.

When I'm in CA, I frequently carry my off roster Remington 1911. Lawful, but CA residents cannot buy one (nor can I sell mine because it would be an FFL out of state to FFL, CA transfer. Hence why you see "no sales to CA" on Gunbroker and others.

My understanding (from dozens of conversations with dealers), not legal advice.

 

[WillametteWill]

On another note, I know lots of officers that realize (too late) that once they retire they can't buy any of the cool stuff. Ya know, all the guns that any of us can buy at a LGS or Cabelas every day.

CA also has restrictions on frequency, think all guns are one a month now, use to be just handguns...I'd look but don't care anymore since I moved back to America!

 

[RVTECH]

Once a gun is lawfully in CA it can be transferred by private party transfer.

Thanks - this makes sense now!

 

[RVTECH]

I'll take a wild guess that RUGER created the PCC somewhat 'conventionally' so as to be CA compliant ? (sans the threaded barrel)

 

[Alexx1401]

I'll take a wild guess that RUGER created the PCC somewhat 'conventionally' so as to be CA compliant ? (sans the threaded barrel)

Yes, they make one version of it that has no threads and comes with a 10 round mag for just this reason. Of course too many gun owners in states like CA continue to keep their heads in the sand as more and more laws get passed. Heard a guy on NRA TV lamenting this last week. He claimed there was around 10 Million gun owners in CA. If he could just get 2 Million of them to vote in block he could do wonders. Imagine if he could get 5 Million of them to do this? This is the same problem here in WA and in OR. If we could get even 25% of the people who own guns to think and vote we could not only stop these nuts, we could roll back some damage.

 

[etrain16]

Yes, they make one version of it that has no threads and comes with a 10 round mag for just this reason. Of course too many gun owners in states like CA continue to keep their heads in the sand as more and more laws get passed. Heard a guy on NRA TV lamenting this last week. He claimed there was around 10 Million gun owners in CA. If he could just get 2 Million of them to vote in block he could do wonders. Imagine if he could get 5 Million of them to do this? This is the same problem here in WA and in OR. If we could get even 25% of the people who own guns to think and vote we could not only stop these nuts, we could roll back some damage.

Too true. Too many gun owners will vote for candidates that fight against their rights, or they don't care enough to vote in the first place. Gun owners can be their own worst enemies at times. I have no idea how to fix it either. Too bad gun owners can't get their azzes together to rally around anti-gun BS in much greater numbers.

 

[DuneHopper]

Too true. Too many gun owners will vote for candidates that fight against their rights, or they don't care enough to vote in the first place. Gun owners can be their own worst enemies at times. I have no idea how to fix it either. Too bad gun owners can't get their azzes together to rally around anti-gun BS in much greater numbers.

We can flashback to 2012 in this forum and most likely read a few dozens times the words you just typed.
It seems that telling like minded people is not working. This forum is huge in numbers but it does not roll over into
and real world effect. I find that fascinating and disturbing.