Which SHTF rifle for @ $400?

[Riot]

The problem with using US made mags plus a handguard or gas piston for compliance in a Saiga is that those US made mags can only be used in a Saiga. They are not compatible with, and will not function properly in, a conventional AK. And conventional AK mags will not function in a Saiga. If this limitation is acceptable to you then fine, but if it isnt then you may want to reconsider purchasing a Saiga unless you are willing to do a full conversion on it. This involves removing the trigger, drilling holes in the receiver, replacing the trigger with a Tapco unit, reinstalling it in the correct forward location, installing a pistol grip, modifying the magazine catch, and installing a bullet guide below the barrel.

I learned all of this the hard way, thru my own ignorance, back in '06 when I was on a budget and looking for a cheap AK. What I discovered...thru trial and error and a lot of wasted money and aggravation can neatly be summed up in the following;

a) If you want an authentic AK that is legal and good to go with standard milsurp AK mags...then spend the extra money up front and buy one that is set up that way to begin with.

b) If you are OK with a "sort-of" AK that will require the use of proprietary US-made Saiga mags that are not interchangeable with standard AK mags....then go ahead and save a few bucks and buy a Saiga. Or if you feel confident in your gunsmithing abilities, buy a Saiga and do a proper conversion. A properly converted Saiga can be a very good weapon...better than a WASR Century import....but you will wind up spending more on it in the process.

c) If you cannot afford either of these options, then buy an SKS and leave it alone. Dont waste money on jam-o-matic duckbill mags trying to turn it into an AK. Accept its limitations, make the most of its advantages, and use the $$$ you save on extra ammo and stripper clips.

I dont know all of this because I am smart, I know all of this because I was stupid and have chosen to learn from the stupid mistakes that I have made.

Good knowledge to know...and the best experience is the one you learned from someone else's mistakes!

 

[Studio BK]

Thanks Soberups! Sounds like wise words to me. I'm leaning towards an SKS since they are under my budget.

 

[zulma_jairo]

They are fun at the range and somewhat more reliable than the cheap steel ones, but if I had to rely upon an SKS for protection/SHTF usage I would rather have the standard 10 rd internal magazine and a bunch of stripper clips. The other issue with Tapcos is that you run into 922r compliance issues unless you play the parts game and by the time you have replaced the stock, the operating rod, and enough other parts to be legal you have spent almost enough money to get into an AK. SKS's truly are at their best when left in their original configuration.

To OP: I just recently sold my Norinco SKS and that thing was rock solid reliable with the 20 round tapco mags. If you decide to get an SKS I say you give them a shot and find out for yourself firsthand whether those mags and that gun are reliable together. If anything you can just switch back to the 10 round fixed box mag but in my experience it wasn't necessary. I shot well over 1000 rounds with no hiccup whatsoever. Just my 2 cents.

 

[4Freedom]

Save the few hundred you would spend on beer, meals out, concerts, other hobbies, etc and get an AR and some Magpul mags.. The cost you save in ammo alone will make up for what you would spend on other things. Lot of affordable 5.56 ammo on the market. It is the ultimate SHTF rifle.. just ask our military.. But, if you are stuck on a shoestring,9 out of 10 impoverished people in the world in SHTF scenarios agree AK47s are economical and reliable SHTF guns.. A Saiga is decent quality AK and quite affordable in most calibers, except the shotgun 12ga caliber. The Saiga can be converted to AK specs to accept standard AK mags. Although, the Surefire and other aftermarket mags IMO can be better. I have a few which is adequate for most SHTF scenarios. If you think you will need to pick up mags off of dead people that are compatible with your gun, you could run into issues with Saiga .308 or 5.56 calibers. Let's ask ourselves, what is the likelihood of us really being in that situation? Of course, a cheap shotgun can be acquired for not much and has many SHTF applications and would be a good complement to your SHTF rifle.

 

[Wenis]

I say save another $100 and buy a regular AK, like a WASR-10. If you can't afford $100, then you can't afford the ammo either, because you will shoot far more than $400 worth of ammo out of whichever gun you decide to buy. If money is a factor, get a Mosin Nagant and two tins of ammo.

 

[Trailboss]

I'm going to swim against the current here and suggest a lever action Winchester or Marlin in 30-30. Both have been around for more then 100 years and have proven themselves capable against all threats and game. Oh, I can hear the pray and spray crowd typing feverishly as their blood pressure is rising, but seriously, a post-shtf life is not going to be a life of firing hundreds of rounds daily at anything that moves, but rather learning to live, learning to hunt, learning to garden and to gather. Military style weapons are great for battles, but it's unlikely we will face hordes. A nice lever action is easy to carry, fast to deploy, accurate, reliable and it doesn't look threatening enough to cause others to fire first and ask questions later. Today, I can afford to pick any firearm I wish to have in a shtf situation. My choice will be a simple lever action and I won't be under gunned.

 

[Studio BK]

Thanks for all the great ideas everyone!

 

[Sun195]

I agree with the idea of getting a used Marlin or Winchester 30-30 - you'll still have money left over for some ammo.

 

[Redcap]

It applies to anybody who wants to modify their imported rifle by adding high capacity mags or pistol grips.

I'd listen to the FFL.

 

[soberups]

I'd listen to the FFL.

I'd call or write a letter to the ATF. Which is what I did. Dont take my word for it, or any FFL's for that matter, just do the research. 922r is a confusing and pointless law and the chances of a private citizen getting proseucuted for sticking a 25 rd duckbill in his SKS or using an imported hi-cap in his Saiga are between slim and none. But nonetheless it is the law and I dont want to be the one paying an attorney to fight the ATF.

 

[RB87]

Re a lever action:

<broken link removed>

 

[HenryJ]

No complaints about a lever gun, but 30-30 is at least $1 per round more expensive than 7.62x39mm. I can afford to practice more with the SKS

 

[soberups]

No complaints about a lever gun, but 30-30 is at least $1 per round more expensive than 7.62x39mm. I can afford to practice more with the SKS

+1

If Wolf or Golden Tiger ever starts selling 30/30 ammo for $250 per thousand....or Winchester comes out with a Model 1894 in 7.62x39.... then I might consider a lever gun also. Until then, 7.62x39 is by far the most affordable centerfire round to buy in bulk, and the SKS is the cheapest semi-auto rifle that is chambered for it. When it comes to SHTF preps, cost-effectiveness is paramount.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

A good used reliable AK47 clone. But this assumes you can afford a bunch of ammo, too.. if not look for a used Norinco SKS. They have sold here for $250 recently

 

[csp243]

I would buy something that you are capable of taking down a deer at 200 yards, whatever firearm it may be.

 

[Riot]

7.62x39 is by far the most affordable centerfire round to buy in bulk

I dissagree...this is why I recommended the Mosin Nagant.

7.62x54R can be found as cheap as 15.5 cents per bullet while 7.62x39 can be found at 20.5 cents per bullet.

When it comes to SHTF preps, cost-effectiveness is paramount.

Agreed. Too bad that the SKSs almost trippled in price since the last 10 years. For just a few hundred more you could get a VEPR or a PSL


16" VEPR


Semi-auto with a 10 round removable mag of 7.62x54R goodness. You can hunt with it as well as use it for defense (if semi auto is a prerequisit for wanting a Saiga or SKS).

I obviously still think that one or two Mosin Nagants with thousands of bullets are the way to go (especially with ammo costs) for SHTF. Which is why I own two Mosin Nagants and thousands of rounds of 7.62x54R.

 

[Studio BK]

Those rifles are gorgeous but double my budget so I can't do it. I appreciate your argument about a Mosin Nagant though. I thought about this but just don't like the 5 round max capacity. It's also a very long rifle and seems to me like it would be cumbersome if used in an urban combat scenario (I live in the suburbs). Unless of course I could get my hands on a Mosin carbine.

 

[Riot]

Those rifles are gorgeous but double my budget so I can't do it. I appreciate your argument about a Mosin Nagant though. I thought about this but just don't like the 5 round max capacity. It's also a very long rifle and seems to me like it would be cumbersome if used in an urban combat scenario (I live in the suburbs). Unless of course I could get my hands on a Mosin carbine.

12 guage shotguns work really well for survival stuff too so don't discount them. I figured a rifle-barreled 18" 870 would probably be perfect for SHTF stuff. Just realize that if you use buckshot down a rifled barrel the shots go EVERYWHERE. She would be perfect for a door breacher and a medium range gun, though. Shotguns are very versitile weapons, overall.

 

[Studio BK]

12 guage shotguns work really well for survival stuff too so don't discount them. I figured a rifle-barreled 18" 870 would probably be perfect for SHTF stuff. Just realize that if you use buckshot down a rifled barrel the shots go EVERYWHERE. She would be perfect for a door breacher and a medium range gun, though. Shotguns are very versitile weapons, overall.

I already have a Mossberg 590 so a semi-auto rifle is more what I'm wanting. Thanks for the idea though.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

+1

If Wolf or Golden Tiger ever starts selling 30/30 ammo for $250 per thousand....or Winchester comes out with a Model 1894 in 7.62x39.... then I might consider a lever gun also. Until then, 7.62x39 is by far the most affordable centerfire round to buy in bulk, and the SKS is the cheapest semi-auto rifle that is chambered for it. When it comes to SHTF preps, cost-effectiveness is paramount.

The latter will never happen for liability reasons.. the 7.62 x 39 factory ammo almost exclusively consists of sharp pointed bullet profile loads, which is a no-no in a tube fed weapon because it can cause a chain fire in the tube via one bullet point setting off the primer ahead of it.. no manufacturer is going to make one