So when does "IT" hit the fan?

[forefathersrback]

Tool~Aenema, { Lyrics And Meaning} Seems fitting.

 

[AMProducts]

Sure but one man isnt going to stop an army and evading seems like a better solution. Those who are eager to fight are the ones that will die first, evading seems like the better solution to survival, which bush craft comes in handy.

Evading? For how long? Until when?

 

[Just Jim]

You can go fight ill take my family and hide and try to evade detection, if theres a threat to my family id try my best to defend my family but im not going to go looking for a fight, especially when the army would have tanks, jets, bombs ect..making myself a target is something i dont want to do.

I understand, l really do.

 

[308]

You can go fight ill take my family and hide and try to evade detection, if theres a threat to my family id try my best to defend my family but im not going to go looking for a fight, especially when the army would have tanks, jets, bombs ect..making myself a target is something i dont want to do.

Exactly. I'd much rather be sitting back safe with a spotting scope while all the Magpul/Tier-1 wannabees are down there mixing it up with the zombies.

 

[oli700]

Sure but one man isnt going to stop an army and evading seems like a better solution.

boy am I glad every one man doesn't think like this, there would be no one to defend our way of life

I respect an individuals choice and by all means do as you please, but don't expect to be welcomed back with open arms when we are victorious

 

[308]

I'm late to the party here...When we are victorious over who?

 

[oli700]

I'm late to the party here...When we are victorious over who?

Yeah you are, chances are if you haven't realized the the threats then you won't , and will continue to be late for the party
Wouldn't it be convenient if earthing and every possibility could be laid out in front of you every day so you could know everything that's going to happen and be prepared, or in your case a hiding spot picked out.
There are multiple possibilities foreign and domestic , stick your head further in the sand, it'll all be over soon

 

[308]

Yeah you are, chances are if you haven't realized the the threats then you won't , and will continue to be late for the party
Wouldn't it be convenient if earthing and every possibility could be laid out in front of you every day so you could know everything that's going to happen and be prepared, or in your case a hiding spot picked out.
There are multiple possibilities foreign and domestic , stick your head further in the sand, it'll all be over soon

How about I read the book, I know who is in control (hint: its not me, or you or them) and I know who wins in the end. My head is no where near the sand...I'm not looking down. Quite the contrary.

 

[oli700]

That's fine, everyone needs to do what's best for them.

For all anyone knows, it's all for nothing or something before the end of this post.
I was tying my boots wondering what I was going to take to work for lunch when they interrupted for the special report the day the towers got hit......just never know
I could easily be a lot worse, or the sun could blow up?

All I am saying is I am glad not everyone has that attitude because anyone could just walk in here and have their way
Kinda like preferring to be with the same sex, if everyone did it, none of us would be here

 

[Just Jim]

Kinda like preferring to be with the same sex, if everyone did it, none of us would be here

Is that what killed the dinosaurs?

 

[countryboy865]

boy am I glad every one man doesn't think like this, there would be no one to defend our way of life

I respect an individuals choice and by all means do as you please, but don't expect to be welcomed back with open arms when we are victorious

I dont expect or want a welcome back party. My goal would be to survive with my family not leave them to possibly die away from them. If someone or some force threatened them trust me id light them up to the best of my ability.

 

[308]

I dont expect or want a welcome back party. My goal would be to survive with my family not leave them to possibly die away from them. If someone or some force threatened them trust me id light them up to the best of my ability.

It sounds like you and yours would be very much welcome with me and mine. I'm not into welcome back parties either.

 

[Just Jim]

So this is a socialist country now and how do the socialist treat people who won't fight for their country? Did you know it was the socialist progressives that demanded the pledge of allegance?

 

[CoastRange57]

Lot of speculation going on in this thread without concern for the logistical and operational problems involved. The majority of the people out in the world, and a lot of us on here are completely unprepared or unable to bug out and hide and evade. Families or groups with responsibilities to older adults, to children and other family members will not be able to be highly mobile in the manner that will be required. Being eager to fight is a counter productive emotion that will result in bad decision making.

Our group will maintain a hold on our area of control in a fairly aggressive manner, and we will take the fight to anybody who try's to break our hold on our ground and area. As long as nobody bothers us, you will not have any problems. You decide to mess with us and you will be dealt with fairly aggressively by a well trained and prepared group. Tactics will vary, but I really don't expect to see the whites of anybody's eyes before the threat is gone.

 

[oli700]

Is that what killed the dinosaurs?

No, it was denial.
Everybody is brave on the innerwebz

 

[countryboy865]

Lot of speculation going on in this thread without concern for the logistical and operational problems involved. The majority of the people out in the world, and a lot of us on here are completely unprepared or unable to bug out and hide and evade. Families or groups with responsibilities to older adults, to children and other family members will not be able to be highly mobile in the manner that will be required. Being eager to fight is a counter productive emotion that will result in bad decision making.

Our group will maintain a hold on our area of control in a fairly aggressive manner, and we will take the fight to anybody who try's to break our hold on our ground and area. As long as nobody bothers us, you will not have any problems. You decide to mess with us and you will be dealt with fairly aggressively by a well trained and prepared group. Tactics will vary, but I really don't expect to see the whites of anybody's eyes before the threat is gone.

Depends how many are in your group if its just you and a wife trying tp hold ground might not work if a large force comes by for a visit. And im sure that there are plenty on this forum that aren't prepared to survive from the comfort of thier home but theres plenty of time right now to learn how to. The more ways to be self maintaining the better, just another asset to add to your arsonal.

 

[Just Jim]

No, it was denial.
Everybody is brave on the innerwebz

Not everyone.

 

[Brutus57]

So in going through this thread, this has been pretty involved... I'm sorry for your loss Iron. I lost a really close friend when I was younger, but he was killed in a motor cycle accident, still unexpected, tragic. This is year 12. I absolutely understand the bloom being off the rose.

That said, I'm going to take a few minutes to crap on a few ideas:

First, currency is currency, and assets are assets: In general, when the market goes up, the price of gold goes down, the reverse is also true. I do not consider precious metals as a good investment long term unless you're really just looking for an outlet for money you couldn't spend any other way. It may shield you from inflation, but that's about it. Gold is likely the worst investment vehicle of all, as it never beats the market, and never catches up to inflation until the market tanks. The market is also a crappy investment, as the movement of money is not tangible until action is taken. Buying and holding stock is kinda like keeping your money on the pass line, it's fine until someone craps out.

On the other hand, your 100 tons of equipment is a solid investment, because it has the means to constantly produce value without it's value being diminished. Think of it this way: if I buy an axe, I cut and sell firewood, I'm taking something that has a relatively low utility value: trees, using my axe to turn trees into something I can sell: firewood or lumber. What I have sold is my labor, I still have an axe. If I invest in a faster means (say a chainsaw, or a sawmill) I get more product for an equal amount of labor, I earn more money, and the process grows. If you really need to get out from under the 100 tons of equipment you have, you can turn it into cash, which you can then buy another 50 tons of more efficient equipment.

Next, I think you're asking the wrong question as to whether "when" the SHTF, and it should more be a question of "If". While there are plenty of dire predictions out there, there's a few fundamentals that need to be remembered: Americans generally are a law abiding lot, we are one of the most well armed societies out there, but have murder rates orders of magnitude lower than other countries where guns are absolutely verboten. So asking "when" regular law abiding citizens are going to start walking around killing each other seems like the wrong question. Now, there might be isolated incidents and cases such as riots where it may seem like the whole world has lost it's mind, but that could only be a few square blocks. The only exception I see to this case is if the government completely loses it's mind and decides to go rogue, so what you get is essentially police rioting, don't laugh, it's happened, but it is an exceedingly rare event.

In general, the only way things would break down to this point is if some event occurred that prevented people from putting food in their mouths, not 1-2, not 100-200k, I mean everyone. Really the only circumstances I see that happening: a seriously lethal pandemic illness, or an event along the lines of a thermonuclear exchange.

Much of the SHTF thinking is really nothing but violence porn and fan-fic. I completely understand why it's so sexy, when you think about yourself as the hero of some as yet unwritten history. But it's a fantasy, where you shoot straighter and faster than the people shooting at you, your bullets rip their bodies apart, while theirs are stopped by your armor... Fantasy can be a good healthy outlet, however if it's all you indulge in, it can be really bad.

At it's worst, the whole of "prepper" culture is nothing more than a race in which he who has the most crap endorsed by W blogger, X youtube channel, or Y survivalist author wins. When it really matters it's not a matter of who has the most crap it's a matter of who can see and hear better, who is better rested, and who has the better assessment of his adversary.

What much of survivalism comes down to for me at least is keeping your priorities straight in the face of adversity, and developing tools for what will help you do that. The two most important things to me are my family and my freedom, everything else is simply a means to help me maintain those two things.

One problem that I find happens a lot in "prepper" circles is it tends to be an echo chamber, in that there's always this fever pitch to get an off-grid ranch, that's just a front end for the warren of reinforced concrete bunkers underneath, stocked with several centuries of food. All the while being dismissive of everyone who can't or won't do this as "sheeple".

While as someone who was once a teenage boy, I think a huge fort in the woods would be friggin awesome, I mean I remember building forts when I was a kid, and it was really cool, but as you have made the point, how practical is it, and does it serve the original mission of preserving the most important things?

What I really suggest is take the time and do some reading, and stop listening to the pundits put on the air by advertisers, and give yourself some perspective. While I like listening to Alex Jones, Peter Schiff, and Clyde Lewis, none of them have my individual best interest at heart, they have to sell ads to stay on the air and put food in their food holes.

Here's my reading list:
Sun Tzu - Art of War
von Clausewitz - On War
Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
Henry George - Progress and Poverty
Sinclair Lewis - It can't happen here
Cicero - De Re Publica (aka Cicero's Republic) at least read Scipio's Dialog
Ludwig von Mises - Socialism (essay)

There are others I would recommend, but they need more context

You should add the Bible to this list....believe or not.....much of the world attention is focussed on Jerusalem. For millenniums. There will be wars and rumors of wars....
Brutus Out

 

[Just Jim]

Not sure if war was what the op meant when he asked when does it hit the fan. OP are we drifting to much from your subject matter or are you good talking death and destruction due to war?

 

[IronMonster]

Hey, Im not the boss of you. Talk about what ever the hell you want. If people quit talking back then you got a problem.