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Since my main preps are preparing land and a house to be self-sufficient, to produce food and energy I and my family can live on while relying less on others (especially government), I do think that the government is not overly threatened by that since it means they have more for the others.

Now those who wear a tin foil hat would say that the PTB want more control over everybody, and that at best they will just come and take away my food. They may be right, but how would they do anything different to prepare for that eventuality? Don't grow food? Don't try to be more self-sufficient? Go off and live somewhere that they can't be found - like the wilds of Alaska?

I for one and not going to do any of that - especially not the last.

My problem is that I am 60+ and my health is not improving, and there is little I can do about that. Just about when things start getting really bad I will be ready for a wheelchair, not wanting to try to survive in conditions that would tax someone half my age. By that time my daughter will be where I am now (if she lives that long) - or worse.

Everybody's situation is different, but there is one thing a lot of preppers don't think about when they are middle age; what are they going to do when they are 60 to 80 years old? What about when their kids get that old? What about those of us with health problems now that won't get better, only worse over time?

And finally, what if, nothing bad happens? Have they prepared for the situation where they simply retire? Or are they going to have to work the rest of their lives because they put so much money into guns and ammo and armor and NV equipment and a bug out vehicle, that they don't have anything in a 401K to live on when they get into their 60s?
I would not pull my money out of my 401k if I were in my 60's. I believe you are old enough to have your investments pay off. I am in my late 30's and I'm not so sure that an IRA would be around to cash out in 2040 or 2050. Of course, it could all still be spinning and pay off, but I think young people planning on retiring in 2050 on the current system are largely kidding themselves.

I view preparing land, producing my own food and being self-sufficient not only as preparation, but also simply as a more fulfilling, rewarding life than what we left behind. For us, we are raising our children on this land with the intent that they will continue living here generationally, whether the Debt Clock is still ticking or not. This is our retirement plan. When we are 60 or 80 years old, we will still be here doing what we can until we can't do it and our kids, grandkids and great-grandkids are doing it. If nothing bad happens, we still get to live what is for us a much more rewarding existence than we used to have.

Not everybody wants to live in the middle of nowhere and it is impossible to deny the convenience of having a Safeway or Fred Meyer around the corner. I believe those are the folks that need to be careful not to end up with $100k worth of stockpiled ammo and barely enough money to cover the absolute bare necessities when it is time to retire.

We can now live on less than $600 per month and that includes satellite tv, internet and a phone line. Our property tax is less than $600 per year. If we got serious and lost the tv and internet our only expenses would be the land line, electricity and property tax. Add another little bit for gasoline and insurance and the little things you need from the hardware store every now and then and we can do it for about $350 per month. Of course, the cost of that is living in the middle of nowhere, not spending money on frivolous things and doing all the work ourselves. Our lives would in ways be easier in a city, but we needed a bare minimum of $3,500-4,000 per month and that just requires a different kind of hard work.

You nailed it when you said everyone's situation is different. If we lived in Portland and tried to have a bug-out property, means of getting there and all the rest that goes along with it, it would truly be absurd. Our move was a lifestyle change as much as a preparation for what we feel is certainly coming, whether it's tomorrow, next year or 40 years down the road. That we can hopefully be a sanctuary for family members that have contributed and store their stuff here is even better. Our nurse is local, but the people that will solidify our security need to get here from elsewhere. At least we can patch them up when they get here.

Not only do we all have individual situations, but rarely will our priorities match the next guy's. I sincerely hope that everyone that has prepared at all in their lives has what they need when the time comes. We chose to live our "prep" and from some points of view, that may seem extreme. It was far and away the best choice for us and has paid off better than Powerball. If everyone else is as satisfied in their decisions as we are in ours, what other people think becomes quite inconsequential.
 
Ya got hit by a car as a teenager on my motorcycle and hurt my back putting up too heavy roof trusses in a building. The things we do hurt us but all we have is to get tough and keep going. I have found the body does get better when I quit working. Every day I can go a little farther on the Harley :D.
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Some guys choose to be a couch tater when they get old and some dont. I have an 81 year old friend that puts a lot of forty year old to shame he is so active. Some people have a driving force that keeps them moving no matter the circumstance and others fade away, I suspect it's in the mind and what the mind has to live for.

Get lots of people telling you how to live retirement to make yourself happy, when you get there you will see its their dream not yours. I like the freedom... I come and go as I please and choose what I want to do and when I want to do it. Only schedule I even look at is when the gunshows are on.:D Today I am going shooting again the range won't be crowded and no one to bother me. I will get some real focus going on to tune some new to me rifles. One for deer and one for varmits. I will take all the time I want and enjoy the day.
 
Some guys choose to be a couch tater when they get old and some dont. I have an 81 year old friend that puts a lot of forty year old to shame he is so active. Some people have a driving force that keeps them moving no matter the circumstance and others fade away, I suspect it's in the mind and what the mind has to live for.

Get lots of people telling you how to live retirement to make yourself happy, when you get there you will see its their dream not yours. I like the freedom... I come and go as I please and choose what I want to do and when I want to do it. Only schedule I even look at is when the gunshows are on.:D Today I am going shooting again the range won't be crowded and no one to bother me. I will get some real focus going on to tune some new to me rifles. One for deer and one for varmits. I will take all the time I want and enjoy the day.
As recorded here for the past two years I am a sloth, I love being a couch tater and will happily melt into the fabric.
Site #1 keeps me keeps me busy, far more than Site #2. 20-4o hours a week is not near enough, and in my condition 40 hrs is more than I can offer due to my old body and yet In just 2 summers I have turned that place from a dismal shelter to something that approaches a home w/garden(s) and a near endless supply of firewood.
Once the gardens are set I'll be harvesting wood early and then doing indoor stuff to brighten living conditions.
When your working for yourself, on your own place, every drop of sweat, every row hoed, every tree harvested is worth more gold than King Midas might have
 
My plan for alphabet soup events like SHTF or WROL or TEOTWAWKI or whatever the heck is popular these days is to start an evil biker gang with my buddies. We'll go around murdering, raping, pillaging and doing other nasty things. We'll steal oil from the few good people remaining on the earth until one day some jerk with a ford falcon decides to take us all down. Don't really need much planning for that, just a bike, a gun, some jerry cans, and a crazy looking mask so I'm pretty well covered. Maybe we'll rob a goth store in the mall first to get some black clothes with metal spikes or something.

As for other terrible events that have a very real chance of happening in my lifetime like another economic depression, the collapse of the 401(k) bubble, the abolishment of entitlements, or even the nationalization of everyone's private retirement funds (hey, it happened in Argentina), I've been building equity in physical assets and diversifying my skills. I don't have any debt other than a home mortgage and hopefully before it happens I'll own that outright as well. If you own your dwelling and have no debt all you really need is to make enough money to pay taxes, utilities, and buy groceries to survive. Then even the most meager incomes still make enough disposable cash to go racing on the weekends. Worst case scenario I can always live out of my truck. Live cheap and don't have kids is my motto for continued financial stability.
 
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My plan for alphabet soup events like SHTF or WROL or TEOTWAWKI or whatever the heck is popular these days is to start an evil biker gang with my buddies. We'll go around murdering, raping, pillaging and doing other nasty things. We'll steal oil from the few good people remaining on the earth until one day some jerk with a ford falcon decides to take us all down. Don't really need much planning for that, just a bike, a gun, some jerry cans, and a crazy looking mask so I'm pretty well covered. Maybe we'll rob a goth store in the mall first to get some black clothes with metal spikes or something.

As for other terrible events that have a very real chance of happening in my lifetime like another economic depression, the collapse of the 401(k) bubble, the abolishment of entitlements, or even the nationalization of everyone's private retirement funds (hey, it happened in Argentina), I've been building equity in physical assets and diversifying my skills. I don't have any debt other than a home mortgage and hopefully before it happens I'll own that outright as well. If you own your dwelling and have no debt all you really need is to make enough money to pay taxes, utilities, and buy groceries to survive. Then even the most meager incomes still make enough disposable cash to go racing on the weekends. Worst case scenario I can always live out of my truck. Live cheap and don't have kids is my motto for continued financial stability.
Spengo. Your first paragraph has me quiet bothered to say the least. Not sure if your making a joke out of this, or not. Either or, I will give you a little history lesson. During the fall of Berlin, there were and estimated 2,000,000 women & children raped. With a conservative est. of 240,000 deaths related to those rapes. Mainly by soviet forces, and certainly allied forces. Also, let me mention, Boko Haram, & of course don't forget Darfur. the list goes on & on..... A joke, fairytale Bull$hit!
 
Spengo. Your first paragraph has me quiet bothered to say the least. Not sure if your making a joke out of this, or not. Either or, I will give you a little history lesson. During the fall of Berlin, there were and estimated 2,000,000 women & children raped. With a conservative est. of 240,000 deaths related to those rapes. Mainly by soviet forces, and certainly allied forces. Also, let me mention, Boko Haram, & of course don't forget Darfur. the list goes on & on..... A joke, fairytale Bull$hit!
Today is April 1st and I think the biker gang and Ford Falcon are references to the Mad Max movie.
 
War, that's what it will be....big time war, not just a half dozen countries but regions against regions. With little restraint on all sides.
Not an alarmist but a realist. Overpopulation will get sorted out because the more advanced nations will cease aiding the 3rd world countries. No one will give a darn about any country with no resources. 2nd Dark Ages.

Brutus out
 
War, that's what it will be....big time war, not just a half dozen countries but regions against regions. With little restraint on all sides.
Not an alarmist but a realist. Overpopulation will get sorted out because the more advanced nations will cease aiding the 3rd world countries. No one will give a darn about any country with no resources. 2nd Dark Ages.

Brutus out
Overpopulation will "get sorted out" alright; a few billion people will die.

What happens in other countries will matter because:

1) It will spill over into first world countries.
2) Those other countries do indeed have resources we want. China for example, is not only a huge market for us, but they are one of the few sources for rare earth minerals we need to make our goods, the largest source for some of those minerals.
3) Their pollution is our pollution because it gets carried by the winds and the currents to our country.

We share the world with others, sticking your head in the sand and saying "it will sort itself out" isn't going to be the optimum response.
 
As to the title,
After today I wish the ....it would hit the fan sooner than later....................:mad:
Be careful of what you wish for...

The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly, festering sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image....
The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned into blood like that of a dead person, and every living thing in the sea died....
The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood....
The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was allowed to scorch people with fire.....
The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony......
The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East....
The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, "It is done!"



All of this talk about SHTF and how one will prep and control the outcome is simple vanity. The reality of the situation is, there is only ONE THING any person can truly control

 
Not sticking my head in the sand nor falling for the kumbaya that the world leaders like the UN will work together for the good of mankind.....they won't. When push comes to shove powerful nation states won't give a rat's patootie about any third or second world country that stands in their way. Climate change is a big business more so than a threat to mankind....None, count them None of the models have been Correct to date. And so they say well now with this new computer and new data we're burning to a crisp or it's an ice age coming.....choose your decade of the 20th century and read it's newspapers. Yes, the climate does change. For thousands of years folks have fought over resources and will continue. The only model that is ringing true is what 308 quoted above. It is playing out at the Iranian nuclear talks and all over the Middle East. I am not being callous here but a realist when it come to billions of people.you want to prolong the Earth's resources? Institute population control in China, India, Pakistan, Africa and Malaysia...going against
human nature is a tough row upstream. Look at Mexico, it's stll a struggling country because the people are kept down by a corrupt government, drug lords and overpopulation. It is no wonder millions flee north.

Brutus out
 
So say it all goes bad and most of the population is destroyed, what will you work to change in the world should you survive to do so? I am thinking smaller government will be my goal...:D
 

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