No bait, drop the conversation anytime you want. I know I would never be part of your group, you don't seem to get along with others. You seem to be hostile in your replys and I am not sure why. Maybe you better find others to talk to...
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So when does "IT" hit the fan?
- Thread Starter IronMonster
- Start date
No bait, drop the conversation anytime you want. I know I would never be part of your group, you don't seem to get along with others. You seem to be hostile in your replys and I am not sure why. Maybe you better find others to talk to...
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Cool. I hope you get there. It sounds like you plan on taking from others as the "bad guys" you describe. That's perfectly fine, but please remember that we didn't build this for you and I didn't respond to this thread for you. I responded to give my example(which I have made VERY clear is only my own and does not require the participation of anyone else) while I learn from the example of others.
I'm now starting to wonder how it was possible for you to survive such uninhabitable places. After all, life is so hard here, no one can make it without following a herd of buffalo around
I'm now starting to wonder how it was possible for you to survive such uninhabitable places. After all, life is so hard here, no one can make it without following a herd of buffalo around
All great upheavals people moved to safety or fought out the problem. I am not one to build forts to protect myself I will find better ground if I have to move. I learned to work hard at a young age and have skills that are needed. If it all goes bad I will get by.
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It's very odd that you haven't looked at your own responses. No s*** you'd never be a part of my group. We don't allow lazy types that refuse to do anything too "hard".No bait, drop the conversation anytime you want. I know I would never be part of your group, you don't seem to get along with others. You seem to be hostile in your replys and I am not sure why. Maybe you better find others to talk to...
So, after all your claims of being "sensitive" and "uncomfortable", now I'm the one that is the Big Ol' Meanie?
Your passive-aggressive arguing is wildly entertaining. You do know that the entire exchange is recorded for posterity, completely blowing your claims out of the water? Who is the one constantly reminding others that every example they present is what works for them, nothing more? Who is the one trying to poke constant holes and contradicting themselves?
I have my answers and don't need to watch "the flow of events" to know what to do. It's already done. Work hard in the summer, stay warm in the winter. That's how it is now and that's how it will be after it falls.
I won't need to steal cause I know where to find food and I have everything I would need to live. Now who is baiting
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Indeed.I won't need to steal cause I know where to find food and I have everything I would need to live. Now who is baiting
This post above all makes me question your judgement, you don't even know me.
Glad I wouldn't have to go through the crap around you. Best of luck to you.
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Are we done here? I am going to stop this car and you wont like it when I do!
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Wow, it's like you took what I said and did your best to turn it around on me, with nothing to back it up. Best to you as well.This post above all makes me question your judgement, you don't even know me.
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Seriously, I've been prepping, to one degree or another, for about 40 years.
I've been hearing that the world as we know it will end "any day now". I even hear people starting to claim that it has already ended, we just refuse to acknowledge that we are in the end (and in a way, that is true, just not the way they mean).
Usually the most common scenario is some kind of economic collapse (whether brought on purposely or by mismanagement, I would buy the latter, nobody in power would purposely bring down an economic system as that would bring them down too), often combined with some kind of social collapse.
Besides the fact that this is unlikely and unpredictable (as the OP has learned), it has already happened multiple times, and guess what - we survived! Hell, my grandparents and parents lived through much worse times and they not not only survived, they thrived.
And no, "this time it is different" doesn't fly with me either - I've been hearing that for 40 years also.
Besides, by comparison, an economic collapse is relatively tame compared to what I have been prepping for the last decade or so. I probably won't see the real bad times of what I am prepping for because I will probably be dead before the real bad times affect the area I am in. By my kids (my daughter and her husband) will probably see it (or, if they are lucky, maybe they will be gone before it really hits too).
What am I talking about? Warning - "tree hugger" rant coming on.
I am talking about something that has been recognizable for 50+ years and that most intellectually honest people acknowledge, but some don't (mostly because their political party doesn't want them to); that the human population is approaching or has passed the carrying capacity of the earth.
We are already seeing the results, pollution of all kinds, climate change (oh! heresy for conservatives, there is no such thing! drought? what drought?), peak energy (not just oil, but energy in general), and a general shortage of natural resources from minerals to water to land.
The basic problem is that yes, this is caused by humans - by the simple fact that the human population is growing, at a faster and faster rate.
World population reached: Year Time to add 1 billion
1 billion 1804
2 billion 1927 123 years
3 billion 1960 33 years
4 billion 1974 14 years
5 billion 1987 13 years
6 billion 1999 12 years
The math is easy - as more people inhabit the earth, the finite resources we have will shrink on at least a per capita basis. More people means less resources per person. Less energy, less water, less clean air, less habitable land, less arable land. Even simpler is the fact that on an overall basis, non-renewable resources (like some forms of energy, e.g. fossil fuels) cannot by definition be renewed. We cannot make more oil, we cannot make more minerals, and these are the very things that we use to support our current standard of living - they will run out, even if we never add another single person to our population (good luck with getting population growth to stop).
This is the elephant in the room that most preppers simply will not acknowledge. Oh, they will complain about the cost of food and energy and housing and land, but they won't look at or acknowledge the underlying reason. This is really funny because while they are calling the rest of the population "sheeple", they themselves are sticking their heads in the sand while much of the "sheeple" (the "libtards" at least) are at least acknowledging the problem.
Part of that head in the sand attitude comes from the general conservative bent of preppers; they believe what their "handlers" (the GOP) tell them - that this is all a liberal conspiracy (while they fill their pockets with money from corporations who don't want to be inconvenienced by thinking about next year or next decade when they just want to make sure they meet their profit projections for next quarter so they can continue to live comfortably).
Another part of that attitude comes from the fact that this is happening gradually. This won't be a sudden collapse, it will (and is) take decades, even though we are seeing the results already.
A global economic collapse will be a walk in the park by comparison when we finally get to the point where the population numbers peak and millions more people die than are added to the population every year. There are already wars over energy (Iraq - twice, and continuing) and there are smaller wars over water and other resources (food) already in areas like Africa. The effects of those conflicts do impact us now, just not as directly as they will increasingly in the future - but we are paying for them now; trillions of dollars for the Iraq conflicts, billions for others - not to mention the impact in human lives (most directly, the US lives lost in those conflicts, including the ongoing impact on veterans who survived but suffer from injuries and illness caused by the wars).
I turn 61 this year. I probably won't live past 80, maybe 85 at best. That means I will survive until about 2030-2040 or so, just about the time that the impact of population growth starts to come to a head (it might be 2050 if we try hard to put it off). So I am not too worried about myself, more worried about my daughter as she may survive until then and she will be at my current age then, and probably in worse health than I am now. So I am, more or less preparing for her, if she is around and able to take advantage of those preps.
So that is my answer; when will "IT" hit? About 15 to 20 years from now "IT" should be apparent to most everybody that we are in for a world (literally) of hurt that most of the prepper doomsayers can't even imagine (except maybe in PAW fiction where everybody conveniently dies off overnight leaving behind a lot of goodies to scavenge and much fewer people to fight over those goodies).
No, "IT" won't happen overnight, not even when "IT" peaks and everybody knows "IT" is happening. And in a way, that is the worst part of "IT"; the ongoing constant bad times, for decades, until we have lost at least a few billion people. And here is the really bad part; given human nature, our inability and reluctance to change for the better, I predict that once things "level off" to where people start to feel that they can live a decent life again, we will begin the cycle of uncontrolled growth and in another 3 to 5 decades be right back at the peak again and repeat the process.
Rinse and repeat.
Meanwhile, yes, I do prepare for "small" emergencies like earthquakes, floods, volcanoes, economic ups and downs, etc. - all of which I have been through already and probably will again.
And no, I didn't pull my money out of the market. On paper I lost between 40 to 50% of what I put in, but I held it there, knowing that the right time to sell is when the market is up, not when it is down. For the immediate future, it looks right now like I am doing okay - I have about double what I put into the market and it is growing, over time. I am slowly moving money from the market into bonds, but I still need growth. I am putting the max I can into my 401K and Roth IRA, about a third of my gross income, and hopefully, if the timing is right, I will have enough in about 5 years to live off the interest along (in combination with my SSI, and yes, I do plan on my SSI being there for me - but not for my daughter - which is why I hope to not touch the principle of my retirement funds and only live off SSI and interest).
----
Disclaimer - haven't read the whole thread yet, just replying to the OP.
I've been hearing that the world as we know it will end "any day now". I even hear people starting to claim that it has already ended, we just refuse to acknowledge that we are in the end (and in a way, that is true, just not the way they mean).
Usually the most common scenario is some kind of economic collapse (whether brought on purposely or by mismanagement, I would buy the latter, nobody in power would purposely bring down an economic system as that would bring them down too), often combined with some kind of social collapse.
Besides the fact that this is unlikely and unpredictable (as the OP has learned), it has already happened multiple times, and guess what - we survived! Hell, my grandparents and parents lived through much worse times and they not not only survived, they thrived.
And no, "this time it is different" doesn't fly with me either - I've been hearing that for 40 years also.
Besides, by comparison, an economic collapse is relatively tame compared to what I have been prepping for the last decade or so. I probably won't see the real bad times of what I am prepping for because I will probably be dead before the real bad times affect the area I am in. By my kids (my daughter and her husband) will probably see it (or, if they are lucky, maybe they will be gone before it really hits too).
What am I talking about? Warning - "tree hugger" rant coming on.
I am talking about something that has been recognizable for 50+ years and that most intellectually honest people acknowledge, but some don't (mostly because their political party doesn't want them to); that the human population is approaching or has passed the carrying capacity of the earth.
We are already seeing the results, pollution of all kinds, climate change (oh! heresy for conservatives, there is no such thing!
drought? what drought?), peak energy (not just oil, but energy in general), and a general shortage of natural resources from minerals to water to land.The basic problem is that yes, this is caused by humans - by the simple fact that the human population is growing, at a faster and faster rate.
World population reached: Year Time to add 1 billion
1 billion 1804
2 billion 1927 123 years
3 billion 1960 33 years
4 billion 1974 14 years
5 billion 1987 13 years
6 billion 1999 12 years
The math is easy - as more people inhabit the earth, the finite resources we have will shrink on at least a per capita basis. More people means less resources per person. Less energy, less water, less clean air, less habitable land, less arable land. Even simpler is the fact that on an overall basis, non-renewable resources (like some forms of energy, e.g. fossil fuels) cannot by definition be renewed. We cannot make more oil, we cannot make more minerals, and these are the very things that we use to support our current standard of living - they will run out, even if we never add another single person to our population (good luck with getting population growth to stop).
This is the elephant in the room that most preppers simply will not acknowledge. Oh, they will complain about the cost of food and energy and housing and land, but they won't look at or acknowledge the underlying reason. This is really funny because while they are calling the rest of the population "sheeple", they themselves are sticking their heads in the sand while much of the "sheeple" (the "libtards" at least) are at least acknowledging the problem.
Part of that head in the sand attitude comes from the general conservative bent of preppers; they believe what their "handlers" (the GOP) tell them - that this is all a liberal conspiracy (while they fill their pockets with money from corporations who don't want to be inconvenienced by thinking about next year or next decade when they just want to make sure they meet their profit projections for next quarter so they can continue to live comfortably).
Another part of that attitude comes from the fact that this is happening gradually. This won't be a sudden collapse, it will (and is) take decades, even though we are seeing the results already.
A global economic collapse will be a walk in the park by comparison when we finally get to the point where the population numbers peak and millions more people die than are added to the population every year. There are already wars over energy (Iraq - twice, and continuing) and there are smaller wars over water and other resources (food) already in areas like Africa. The effects of those conflicts do impact us now, just not as directly as they will increasingly in the future - but we are paying for them now; trillions of dollars for the Iraq conflicts, billions for others - not to mention the impact in human lives (most directly, the US lives lost in those conflicts, including the ongoing impact on veterans who survived but suffer from injuries and illness caused by the wars).
I turn 61 this year. I probably won't live past 80, maybe 85 at best. That means I will survive until about 2030-2040 or so, just about the time that the impact of population growth starts to come to a head (it might be 2050 if we try hard to put it off). So I am not too worried about myself, more worried about my daughter as she may survive until then and she will be at my current age then, and probably in worse health than I am now. So I am, more or less preparing for her, if she is around and able to take advantage of those preps.
So that is my answer; when will "IT" hit? About 15 to 20 years from now "IT" should be apparent to most everybody that we are in for a world (literally) of hurt that most of the prepper doomsayers can't even imagine (except maybe in PAW fiction where everybody conveniently dies off overnight leaving behind a lot of goodies to scavenge and much fewer people to fight over those goodies).
No, "IT" won't happen overnight, not even when "IT" peaks and everybody knows "IT" is happening. And in a way, that is the worst part of "IT"; the ongoing constant bad times, for decades, until we have lost at least a few billion people. And here is the really bad part; given human nature, our inability and reluctance to change for the better, I predict that once things "level off" to where people start to feel that they can live a decent life again, we will begin the cycle of uncontrolled growth and in another 3 to 5 decades be right back at the peak again and repeat the process.
Rinse and repeat.
Meanwhile, yes, I do prepare for "small" emergencies like earthquakes, floods, volcanoes, economic ups and downs, etc. - all of which I have been through already and probably will again.
And no, I didn't pull my money out of the market. On paper I lost between 40 to 50% of what I put in, but I held it there, knowing that the right time to sell is when the market is up, not when it is down. For the immediate future, it looks right now like I am doing okay - I have about double what I put into the market and it is growing, over time. I am slowly moving money from the market into bonds, but I still need growth. I am putting the max I can into my 401K and Roth IRA, about a third of my gross income, and hopefully, if the timing is right, I will have enough in about 5 years to live off the interest along (in combination with my SSI, and yes, I do plan on my SSI being there for me - but not for my daughter - which is why I hope to not touch the principle of my retirement funds and only live off SSI and interest).
----
Disclaimer - haven't read the whole thread yet, just replying to the OP.
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What do I think?
I think you probably don't want to know what I think.
Sorry - timed that wrong
I think you probably don't want to know what I think.
Sorry - timed that wrong
On a interesting subject, the military always trains for what they are going to do...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...deemed-HOSTILE-massive-military-exercise.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...deemed-HOSTILE-massive-military-exercise.html
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Since my main preps are preparing land and a house to be self-sufficient, to produce food and energy I and my family can live on while relying less on others (especially government), I do think that the government is not overly threatened by that since it means they have more for the others.Be carefull, this entire exchange is being recorded....
Now those who wear a tin foil hat would say that the PTB want more control over everybody, and that at best they will just come and take away my food. They may be right, but how would they do anything different to prepare for that eventuality? Don't grow food? Don't try to be more self-sufficient? Go off and live somewhere that they can't be found - like the wilds of Alaska?
I for one and not going to do any of that - especially not the last.
My problem is that I am 60+ and my health is not improving, and there is little I can do about that. Just about when things start getting really bad I will be ready for a wheelchair, not wanting to try to survive in conditions that would tax someone half my age. By that time my daughter will be where I am now (if she lives that long) - or worse.
Everybody's situation is different, but there is one thing a lot of preppers don't think about when they are middle age; what are they going to do when they are 60 to 80 years old? What about when their kids get that old? What about those of us with health problems now that won't get better, only worse over time?
And finally, what if, nothing bad happens? Have they prepared for the situation where they simply retire? Or are they going to have to work the rest of their lives because they put so much money into guns and ammo and armor and NV equipment and a bug out vehicle, that they don't have anything in a 401K to live on when they get into their 60s?
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- Thread Starter
- #196
I think that is a real consern, I am only in my mid 40's but realistically I only have 15 years till I hope to be in my retirement spot and only needing to make a minimum amount of money to get by. I never really figure on retiring the way a person did a generation ago but I do want to make some major life changes and want to be in a position that I am not working 50 hours a week just to keep the rain off my head.
So even though I think the next 20 years will be nothing like the last I have tried to plan for if things don't fall apart. We will have some money put away and paid for property in a couple states plus I will have metal and machines that I hope will be worth something. If I could time the sale of my precious metal pile it should be enough to buy a small simple home in a rural area by itself.
You can't plan for everything, but it's silly to think planing for one outcome is really planning at all.
I might not do as well in the long run as if I had bought into Wall Street full tilt, or maybe because I didn't I'll have something when the crash comes. Time will tell.
So even though I think the next 20 years will be nothing like the last I have tried to plan for if things don't fall apart. We will have some money put away and paid for property in a couple states plus I will have metal and machines that I hope will be worth something. If I could time the sale of my precious metal pile it should be enough to buy a small simple home in a rural area by itself.
You can't plan for everything, but it's silly to think planing for one outcome is really planning at all.
I might not do as well in the long run as if I had bought into Wall Street full tilt, or maybe because I didn't I'll have something when the crash comes. Time will tell.
I am 62, and worked construction most of my life. Learned all about feast and famine plus how to get out there and find work. My prepper plan was to quit work at 62 and enjoy life. I bought what I think I will need and paid off everything so all I have is minor bills. I enjoy life and it will surprise you how much your body heals up when you don't push it so hard. I survived.
In the eighties the spotted owl crapped on us and destroyed the economy. You couldn't buy a job and a lot of good men went broke. Those that could came back knowing it will happen again so lots of us never got into debt again unless we could pay it off easily. Today I am living good from learning that lesson, you can't trust the economy so stay out of debt.
Best part was that my preps came in real handy when the government ruined the economy. Now here we are again with another economy ruined...who'd a thunk it?
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I "pilot a desk", so I am not pushing my body hard.
My problem was I pushed my luck a little too hard when I was a teenager and screwed up my back and neck. Over the decades it has gotten worse. The best I can do is try to keep it from getting worse faster than it has been. Sometimes I do okay, sometimes not, but overall I know it isn't getting any better.
It is a good thing I now longer do manual work, if I did I wouldn't have lasted this long.
Ya got hit by a car as a teenager on my motorcycle and hurt my back putting up too heavy roof trusses in a building. The things we do hurt us but all we have is to get tough and keep going. I have found the body does get better when I quit working. Every day I can go a little farther on the Harley
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