Oregon So what are the options if Initiative Petition 43 goes through?

[Colts4me]

My last statement above was made under the future conditions of forced confiscation. The last act in the destruction of our freedoms. I suspect I would not be the only one (of tens, hundreds, thousands???) who would draw their line in the sand at that point. I do not want to die but I will resist. I will not hurt others but I will resist to my utmost. There will not be enough jails and prisons to hold the likes of me.

I love my god, country and family. We will see what the future brings.

 

[R_Shackleford]

So what do you suggest?

First off, stop running. In the long term, running is a losing strategy. People are going to have to realize that if you don't go to the front line of this fight, the front line will eventually come to you. There is still hope for Oregon. We are in a better position than a lot of other states. People are essentially giving up and throwing in the towel at halftime.

There is still some diminishing hope for the legislature... at least to delay new 2A infringements. I have said it before but we are going to need to start pushing for sanctuary cities (and counties) for gun owners. It must be made public to send a message to the statists. Above all else, don't comply with unconstitutional laws. Make them realize the futility of their legislation and force them to make a decision. They can either start rounding up all of the gun owners and force a 1776 situation or they can accept the reality that we will not be pushed around and used as tools for their virtue signaling.

 

[etrain16]

First off, stop running. In the long term, running is a losing strategy. People are going to have to realize that if you don't go to the front line of this fight, the front line will eventually come to you. There is still hope for Oregon. We are in a better position than a lot of other states. People are essentially giving up and throwing in the towel at halftime.

There is still some diminishing hope for the legislature... at least to delay new 2A infringements. I have said it before but we are going to need to start pushing for sanctuary cities (and counties) for gun owners. It must be made public to send a message to the statists. Above all else, don't comply with unconstitutional laws. Make them realize the futility of their legislation and force them to make a decision. They can either start rounding up all of the gun owners and force a 1776 situation or they can accept the reality that we will not be pushed around and used as tools for their virtue signaling.

I am hopeful in one area - with Boulder just passing an all out ban on "assault weapons", there is already a pledge to fight them in the courts. Now in the 9th Circuit, that is just about guaranteed to be a failure, but the 10th circuit, where CO resides, isn't necessarily a given to go anti-gun. Either way, it could finally walk this argument into the supreme court, where we really need a ruling on this. If the supreme court were to say that banning semi-auto firearms is unconstitutional, then this fight would somewhat come to an end. I say somewhat because mag restrictions have already been given the thumbs up by SCOTUS. But banning firearms altogether, that violates not only the 2nd, but potentially the 5th and maybe another too.

But I agree, we need to stay and fight. Politics can run through peaks and valleys, and those cycles can take several generations. I don't believe Oregon is lost like some do. But I do think the time is still here to fight back. Our numbers are lower than theirs, but not by huge amounts - we have the ability to fight this, if people of that mindset stay and do so. Like you said, running won't win long term. The problem being that the people doing this in Oregon want to see it done in EVERY state. They're already attacking Idaho, Montana, Texas and other traditionally Republican strongholds. To believe you can run away from this is to fail to see the reality - this is a national fight, we just happen to be on the front lines here.

 

[SUPER X]

Under IP43, if you replaced the AR-15 upper with a bolt action upper (no gas tube), you could still have large capacity magazines and because it wasn't semi-auto it would not be an "assault weapon", right?

Might be kind of cool. Not as cool as a semi-auto, but wouldn't that piss 'em off - a bolt-action AR-15 with a 100 round magazine.
Maybe they make such a thing already?

A little more than that... they have to go through all the arguments over title and language, get through any legal challenges AND collect 80,000 signatures by 7/3.

It's a really tight schedule.

If they don' get it they will be back after feeding the fire with more lies and munipunations of facts.& out of state money with new transplants to the area

 

[Colts4me]

First off, stop running. In the long term, running is a losing strategy. People are going to have to realize that if you don't go to the front line of this fight, the front line will eventually come to you. There is still hope for Oregon. We are in a better position than a lot of other states. People are essentially giving up and throwing in the towel at halftime.

There is still some diminishing hope for the legislature... at least to delay new 2A infringements. I have said it before but we are going to need to start pushing for sanctuary cities (and counties) for gun owners. It must be made public to send a message to the statists. Above all else, don't comply with unconstitutional laws. Make them realize the futility of their legislation and force them to make a decision. They can either start rounding up all of the gun owners and force a 1776 situation or they can accept the reality that we will not be pushed around and used as tools for their virtue signaling.

it ain't running when you are fighting in a different direction because you are surrounded. At 66 I have fought for your gun rights for one hell of a lot of years. Even yesterday I was calling folks in the know trying to get things done, did you do anything yesterday, did you call or write an e mail. Did you send another letter to the Whitehouse or call and make a comment on the comment line? Did you spend 25 minutes with the state school board trying to stop school shootings?

A lot of guys talk a good fight but never step up to the plate. Life is like a shooting match, winners and losers, watchers and doers but damn few who get in there to do the work. Its' also like your work where one guy complains all the time but aint' got the guts to stand up to the boss. The fight for our rights is going to teach you human nature and while some folks say they have the courage to meet them at the door they are too lazy to write a letter. Courage takes strength and only lazy men whine.

In my talks yesterday one rep said it looks like 43 won't make the ballot, the courts will tie it up long enough that the signitures can't be gathered. The 43 folks will try again by what I heard. What stopped them is over 1500 letters contesting the ballot title or so they say but only 1500 Oregonians out of 4 million took the time to write a letter. The rest sat around and waited for someone to do the work for them, just like a shooting match.

I fight and assess the outcome of the battle but I am ready to go what direction the battle takes me. If moving best suits the battle then I am ready to move and have searched for houses where I intend to move to. I have that option, I don't have to wait to be made a felon and get no sleep because that night time kick of the door is comming. In the fight a man better be able to understand what losing it really means, I do and if it takes it I will fight from other ground rather than die like Custer, surrounded with no help comming. I wont' be ambushed

 

[Herb g]

What are you seriously going to do? Tell them pry it from your dead fingers. Ya, sure. Bury them. Got a secure spot not in your back yard? Boating accident. Get real. I've got kids in free states that will be getting the inheritance early. They are getting them anyway, and I can always visit to go shooting.

There's only one answer, and it comes from the enemy...RESIST ! Like the Duluth Trading ad says " GET A PAIR ".

 

[R_Shackleford]

it ain't running when you are fighting in a different direction because you are surrounded. At 66 I have fought for your gun rights for one hell of a lot of years. Even yesterday I was calling folks in the know trying to get things done, did you do anything yesterday, did you call or write an e mail. Did you send another letter to the Whitehouse or call and make a comment on the comment line? Did you spend 25 minutes with the state school board trying to stop school shootings?

A lot of guys talk a good fight but never step up to the plate. Life is like a shooting match, winners and losers, watchers and doers but damn few who get in there to do the work. Its' also like your work where one guy complains all the time but aint' got the guts to stand up to the boss. The fight for our rights is going to teach you human nature and while some folks say they have the courage to meet them at the door they are too lazy to write a letter. Courage takes strength and only lazy men whine.

In my talks yesterday one rep said it looks like 43 won't make the ballot, the courts will tie it up long enough that the signitures can't be gathered. The 43 folks will try again by what I heard. What stopped them is over 1500 letters contesting the ballot title or so they say but only 1500 Oregonians out of 4 million took the time to write a letter. The rest sat around and waited for someone to do the work for them, just like a shooting match.

I fight and assess the outcome of the battle but I am ready to go what direction the battle takes me. If moving best suits the battle then I am ready to move and have searched for houses where I intend to move to. I have that option, I don't have to wait to be made a felon and get no sleep because that night time kick of the door is comming. In the fight a man better be able to understand what losing it really means, I do and if it takes it I will fight from other ground rather than die like Custer, surrounded with no help comming. I wont' be ambushed

Well, as I said, giving up winnable ground is a losing strategy. If we keep ceding territory, eventually, we will be surrounded anyway. In that case, it will be because there is nowhere else to run to.

It is incredible that people think that things are bad here. I used to live in California. I stayed to the point that it became unbearable. I stayed for several years knowing that I could be thrown in prison. It wasn't until they began blocking out of state ammunition purchases and registering those that take place in the state and started shaking down metal finishing shops and gunsmiths for working on semi-autos that I had enough. I considered going as far as doing cartel style ammunition runs out of state and smuggling them across the border. THAT is a true tyrannical government. I moved back to Oregon only when it was clear that there was truly no hope. In comparison, I feel like I am in Texas.

IF 43 passes and IF court challenges go nowhere and IF we don't get large proportions of local officials to refuse to enforce the law, then I will say that we are surrounded. Until then, it's like fleeing a battle just because your enemy is shooting back at you.

 

[Colts4me]

Well, as I said, giving up winnable ground is a losing strategy. If we keep ceding territory, eventually, we will be surrounded anyway. In that case, it will be because there is nowhere else to run to.

It is incredible that people think that things are bad here. I used to live in California. I stayed to the point that it became unbearable. I stayed for several years knowing that I could be thrown in prison. It wasn't until they began blocking out of state ammunition purchases and registering those that take place in the state and started shaking down metal finishing shops and gunsmiths for working on semi-autos that I had enough. I considered going as far as doing cartel style ammunition runs out of state and smuggling them across the border. THAT is a true tyrannical government. I moved back to Oregon only when it was clear that there was truly no hope. In comparison, I feel like I am in Texas.

IF 43 passes and IF court challenges go nowhere and IF we don't get large proportions of local officials to refuse to enforce the law, then I will say that we are surrounded. Until then, it's like fleeing a battle just because your enemy is shooting back at you.

You moved out of Kali because the fight wasnt' winable but you look at the fight here and say we can win it. Yet the majority of those folks that are killing Oregon are from Kali. No offense but yall lost down there and pulled out then you tell us not to pull out. Explain to me how this will be won?

You chose new ground to fight from but tell us not to

 

[fredball]

Move to Idaho

 

[Colts4me]

Move to Idaho

I have been looking at houses in the right community for about 3 weeks now. It's good 43 may not get on the ballot this time as it gives me time to search better. Went over there for about a week to look at houses and towns. If the vote for 43 goes through I will be out of here before you can say scat. I wont' live one day as a felon waiting for the cops to kick in my door.

 

[Member 5605]

Life as usual.

 

[Colts4me]

Again, counsel of a man that stands at your shoulder in a fight is worthy. The rest is just BS.

 

[NW Backpacker]

I am hopeful in one area - with Boulder just passing an all out ban on "assault weapons", there is already a pledge to fight them in the courts. Now in the 9th Circuit, that is just about guaranteed to be a failure, but the 10th circuit, where CO resides, isn't necessarily a given to go anti-gun. Either way, it could finally walk this argument into the supreme court, where we really need a ruling on this. If the supreme court were to say that banning semi-auto firearms is unconstitutional, then this fight would somewhat come to an end. I say somewhat because mag restrictions have already been given the thumbs up by SCOTUS. But banning firearms altogether, that violates not only the 2nd, but potentially the 5th and maybe another too.

But I agree, we need to stay and fight. Politics can run through peaks and valleys, and those cycles can take several generations. I don't believe Oregon is lost like some do. But I do think the time is still here to fight back. Our numbers are lower than theirs, but not by huge amounts - we have the ability to fight this, if people of that mindset stay and do so. Like you said, running won't win long term. The problem being that the people doing this in Oregon want to see it done in EVERY state. They're already attacking Idaho, Montana, Texas and other traditionally Republican strongholds. To believe you can run away from this is to fail to see the reality - this is a national fight, we just happen to be on the front lines here.

Supreme court did not take the case against the Maryland Assault Weapon ban. Some think they are waiting for another justice on our side before taking the case:

Supreme Court shoots down gun cases, upholds ban on assault weapons and open-carry

 

[Colts4me]

Life as usual.

So anyway some of us confronted the Mayor of Albany on social media and face to face about the waste of money she has made rebuilding down town. As a member of a community who feels a civic duty I looked with pride as the vote failed to raise our gas taxes. Did you join that battle? Were you side to side as one of the guys had the city sicked on him and summon to court?

I move because I see that people are so lazy they expect it all to be done for them. Like a shooting match damn few guys do all the work. Its better to let the lazy one live in a world of their own making.

 

[NW Backpacker]

it ain't running when you are fighting in a different direction because you are surrounded. At 66 I have fought for your gun rights for one hell of a lot of years. Even yesterday I was calling folks in the know trying to get things done, did you do anything yesterday, did you call or write an e mail. Did you send another letter to the Whitehouse or call and make a comment on the comment line? Did you spend 25 minutes with the state school board trying to stop school shootings?

A lot of guys talk a good fight but never step up to the plate. Life is like a shooting match, winners and losers, watchers and doers but damn few who get in there to do the work. Its' also like your work where one guy complains all the time but aint' got the guts to stand up to the boss. The fight for our rights is going to teach you human nature and while some folks say they have the courage to meet them at the door they are too lazy to write a letter. Courage takes strength and only lazy men whine.

In my talks yesterday one rep said it looks like 43 won't make the ballot, the courts will tie it up long enough that the signitures can't be gathered. The 43 folks will try again by what I heard. What stopped them is over 1500 letters contesting the ballot title or so they say but only 1500 Oregonians out of 4 million took the time to write a letter. The rest sat around and waited for someone to do the work for them, just like a shooting match.

I fight and assess the outcome of the battle but I am ready to go what direction the battle takes me. If moving best suits the battle then I am ready to move and have searched for houses where I intend to move to. I have that option, I don't have to wait to be made a felon and get no sleep because that night time kick of the door is comming. In the fight a man better be able to understand what losing it really means, I do and if it takes it I will fight from other ground rather than die like Custer, surrounded with no help comming. I wont' be ambushed

I try to write Trump a few times per week. No matter what subject I am writing about, I always say :

NO GUN BANS!
Ban bump stocks ? OK.
Raise age to purchase semi-autos to 21? maybe
MAGA 2020!

It's easy to write - takes just a few minutes. I provide my correct initials, town, zip code, and email. The rest is bogus - don't want calls/snail mail. Some times I'll get a response a few days later via email.
Contact the White House

 

[Colts4me]

I try to write Trump a few times per week. No matter what subject I am writing about, I always say :

NO GUN BANS!
Ban bump stocks ? OK.
Raise age to purchase semi-autos to 21? maybe
MAGA 2020!

It's easy to write - takes just a few minutes. I provide my correct initials, town, zip code, and email. The rest is bogus - don't want calls/snail mail. Some times I'll get a response a few days later via email.
Contact the White House

They have a comment line that you talk to a real person. I told her how to stop school shootings and said its' her responibility to pass it on. She asked question so I felt she was taking note. Since Trump got in I have sent several emails on the contact site. I will fight no matter what the direction and from Idaho too if need be.

 

[R_Shackleford]

You moved out of Kali because the fight wasnt' winable but you look at the fight here and say we can win it. Yet the majority of those folks that are killing Oregon are from Kali. No offense but yall lost down there and pulled out then you tell us not to pull out. Explain to me how this will be won?

You chose new ground to fight from but tell us not to

The situation in California and the situation here are not the same. They aren't even close. Probably not even in the same dimension. It's bad there. I mean really, really, really bad. Just idea that gun owners could have the freedoms in California that you have here is completely unthinkable.

California has registration of all firearms. They have universal background checks not just for guns but for ammunition too. Ammunition cannot be purchased out of state without going through an FFL. They have DROS fees which supposedly are used to facilitate background checks and records. It is no surprise that it runs a surplus which gun owners never have refunded to them. They have restrictions on models of handguns. Additionally, no new models are approved for sale and manufacturers must pay a fee to re-register to sell in California. Even new colors are considered new models and cannot be sold. Eventually, most, if not all models will not be legal to sell. There is an "assault weapons" ban. NFA weapons are banned. 50 caliber is banned. Tracer ammunition is banned. Optics equipped with night vision are banned. Magazines greater than 10 rounds are banned. Open carry is banned. Concealed carry must be approved by a county sheriff and you must prove that you have a need to carry (this means that CC is effectively banned in many counties). Firearms must be transported in a locked container. 80% receivers are banned.

That is just what I can think of off the top of my head and that is in addition to the laws that we have in Oregon (California has gun violence restraining orders, etc). To top it off, many police agencies along the coast are NOT gun friendly and are just itching to take your guns an put you in cuffs.

And you ask me how this can be won? The fight has barely even started and some of you are acting like the sky is falling. I am telling you it is a ridiculous strategy to leave a state just because a couple of gun laws get passed. I hate to break it to you but people like Michael Bloomberg (and his shell organizations) are funding anti-gun candidates in every state. This is becoming a national fight. States that were once safe are no longer safe. I predicted a long time ago that Texas would eventually turn purple or even blue. Hasn't happened yet but that is the trajectory.

I chose new ground (well, actually old ground as I am originally from Eugene) because California is a complete lost cause. New gun laws are a foregone conclusion every year. Jerry Brown would sometimes have mercy and veto stuff from time to time but the fact that Jerry Brown is the best thing that gun owners have to hope for just shows how bad things are. If Gavin Newsom gets elected (he most likely will with that bubblegum eating grin that he has), it's going to get a lot worse.

Watching Oregonians complain to Californians about how their gun laws are so bad is like watching an American complain to starving African kids that they are poor too because they couldn't afford the new iPhone.

 

[E4mafia]

The situation in California and the situation here are not the same. They aren't even close. Probably not even in the same dimension. It's bad there. I mean really, really, really bad. Just idea that gun owners could have the freedoms in California that you have here is completely unthinkable.

California has registration of all firearms. They have universal background checks not just for guns but for ammunition too. Ammunition cannot be purchased out of state without going through an FFL. They have DROS fees which supposedly are used to facilitate background checks and records. It is no surprise that it runs a surplus which gun owners never have refunded to them. They have restrictions on models of handguns. Additionally, no new models are approved for sale and manufacturers must pay a fee to re-register to sell in California. Even new colors are considered new models and cannot be sold. Eventually, most, if not all models will not be legal to sell. There is an "assault weapons" ban. NFA weapons are banned. 50 caliber is banned. Tracer ammunition is banned. Optics equipped with night vision are banned. Magazines greater than 10 rounds are banned. Open carry is banned. Concealed carry must be approved by a county sheriff and you must prove that you have a need to carry (this means that CC is effectively banned in many counties). Firearms must be transported in a locked container. 80% receivers are banned.

That is just what I can think of off the top of my head and that is in addition to the laws that we have in Oregon (California has gun violence restraining orders, etc). To top it off, many police agencies along the coast are NOT gun friendly and are just itching to take your guns an put you in cuffs.

And you ask me how this can be won? The fight has barely even started and some of you are acting like the sky is falling. I am telling you it is a ridiculous strategy to leave a state just because a couple of gun laws get passed. I hate to break it to you but people like Michael Bloomberg (and his shell organizations) are funding anti-gun candidates in every state. This is becoming a national fight. States that were once safe are no longer safe. I predicted a long time ago that Texas would eventually turn purple or even blue. Hasn't happened yet but that is the trajectory.

I chose new ground (well, actually old ground as I am originally from Eugene) because California is a complete lost cause. New gun laws are a foregone conclusion every year. Jerry Brown would sometimes have mercy and veto stuff from time to time but the fact that Jerry Brown is the best thing that gun owners have to hope for just shows how bad things are. If Gavin Newsom gets elected (he most likely will with that bubblegum eating grin that he has), it's going to get a lot worse.

Watching Oregonians complain to Californians about how their gun laws are so bad is like watching an American complain to starving African kids that they are poor too because they couldn't afford the new iPhone.

So much this!

If they cannot take it out right in one shot, damn well better be sure they would apply war of attrition and slowly erode away bit by bit piece by piece.

Good to see a living example from someone who was in the belly of the beast and this SHOULD stand as a very eye opening message that should better help motivate people come voting season. I am 95% sure the reason people are getting into more heated debates over sensitive matters like these is because of all the running opposition that would gladly stare you in the face telling you not to worry we are your friends while eagerly getting that knife ready to put in your back.

That is our current only hope is to hopefully diplomatically sway enough minds to vote within reason to not violate the freedoms so many Americans invoke daily without repercussion before suddenly those same values we once held are suddenly used against us leaving us wondering WTF HAPPENED?!?

 

[Member 5605]

So anyway some of us confronted the Mayor of Albany on social media and face to face about the waste of money she has made rebuilding down town. As a member of a community who feels a civic duty I looked with pride as the vote failed to raise our gas taxes. Did you join that battle? Were you side to side as one of the guys had the city sicked on him and summon to court?

I move because I see that people are so lazy they expect it all to be done for them. Like a shooting match damn few guys do all the work. Its better to let the lazy one live in a world of their own making.

You asking if I vote? I do, against every damn tax increase or additional tax.

 

[Colts4me]

I will pursue the options as the changes happen. 66 years here I can see the changes clear as day. Yall do what you feel is right but if you ask man to stay and fight then do it face to face as a man should. Tell him to stay and fight and you will be right by his side while looking him straight in the eye. Otherwise when you say you will fight you show all the signs of an Internet blowhard with nothing to lose.

I have voiced my opinion and I am done, yall have a nice life.