Poll: Shtf rifle semi or bolt

[Decker]

.357 lever action. Can run 38's for smaller game and some good .357 rounds for bigger needs.

 

[AMProducts]

I hope I never get hit with one of those underpowered smallbore .30-30's. You know ........the ones available at every single place that sells ammo in America
I almost agree with the .22 and 12 ga. idea. I've killed a lot of animals with those too. Small animals. For SHTF if I'm gonna fire a round hopefully it's at a deer or elk. I get a lot more mileage out of one of those than a rabbit.

You can take deer and elk all day long with a .30-30 (I would argue .30-30 is a bit marginal on big elk), problem is, it takes a lot longer for a deer or an elk to get back up to eating weight and breeding age than it does for a rabbit, a squirrel or birds. A chicken is at slaughter weight in weeks, a steer is at slaughter weight in months.

The other problem... food preservation. Out of one of these animals if you get 100lbs of meat.. how many people are you feeding? There's no refrigeration, smoking and salting takes time, a smokehouse and salt. A nice sized dove, a rabbit, a squirrel. Each one of those can make a meal for one or two people, and it's about 15 minutes from shooting to stew.

 

[ch139]

'Carabina 30-30', according to Los Lobos:

Los Lobos 'Carabina .30-.30' 1988 - YouTube

...and now I want Mexian food.

Semi BTW... would love to say I could carry all the gun food for an M14 or FAL, but the truth lies in the little Colt carbine.

...or an AK, both are great guns.

 

[just dan]

hmmm... depends on the area, but really i'd have a very hard time deciding. ultimately it'd be whichever one was in my hands when i needed it.

all-around, i suppose a semi auto... preferably something folding, short, light, easily concealed, reliable without maintenance and packing a punch. think AK variants. that'd take care of multiple threats at close range to moderate distances... plus an AK can be repaired in a cave with nothing more than a camp fire and some rocks.

 

[Boats]

If it is short term natural disaster stuff, my Mossberg 590A1 is the choice for looters and neighborhood watch.

If it is long term societal breakdown and I could have only one, my stainless/plastic 10/22 with the BX-25s for SD is coming along for all of the usual "effective enough" reasons.

If, as is the plan, my wife has that weapon, my customized .357 Mag Marlin 1984C and Ruger KGP-141 combo are the choice because the Lee hand loader, five hundred small pistol primers, a 158 SWC bullet mold, and an 4lb can of Titegroup are along for the ride in the pack. Those and some binocs.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

Lee hand loader

On my list!

 

[Dunerunner]

Late to this, but for me it is a bolt gun. .338 Lapua or 50 BMG...

 

[clambo]

You can take deer and elk all day long with a .30-30 (I would argue .30-30 is a bit marginal on big elk), problem is, it takes a lot longer for a deer or an elk to get back up to eating weight and breeding age than it does for a rabbit, a squirrel or birds. A chicken is at slaughter weight in weeks, a steer is at slaughter weight in months.

The other problem... food preservation. Out of one of these animals if you get 100lbs of meat.. how many people are you feeding? There's no refrigeration, smoking and salting takes time, a smokehouse and salt. A nice sized dove, a rabbit, a squirrel. Each one of those can make a meal for one or two people, and it's about 15 minutes from shooting to stew.

Excellent arguments both. I too agree that a .30-30 is a little light for elk......under normal sporting conditions. This is SHTF. No rules.
I'm not quite sure what you meant by deer and elk getting back up to breeding weight ? Under SHTF rules ( none) I could care less about big game biology and/or herd health. All I care about is feeding myself.

I think you're probably right about the preservation part though...however, I'd still rather shoot a deer. Or a bunch of them as need be.

 

[Both Eyes Open]

Someone was looking for a lever action in .223? This one looks pretty sweet! <broken link removed>

Personally I think I would grab the 10/22. Reliable and you cant find cheaper ammo than 22 LR.

 

[tcs#1]

I keep a ruger MKII pistol in my pack and a .45 auto close by..Being alone and in a very small town I only have to walk/jog a couple of blocks to be out of town and gone...I doubt I would have to shoot anyone as I know most these people by name but the .45 would work if necessary..Once I got to my G.S.T. spot I would probably take the ammo and dump the .45 before moving out again

If I grab a long gun it will be my old Win. .270 for the simple reason it is the one gun I own that I know if I can see it I can hit it with scope or the open sights....In a SHTF situation confidence goes along ways

 

[Dave Workman]

So when shtf comes about are you taking a bolt or semi if you can only take one what would it be? Bolt,semi,pump,lever,shot shells,centerfire or rim fire? And why do you choose that weapon?

It's been my experience that the bolt gun has fewer problems than any other except for a single shot.
Besides (grins) if I need a semi-auto, I'll just take one from some guy who, uh, doesn't need it anymore and there will probably be a lot of them.

 

[erudne]

10-22 loaded with Velocitors

 

[gehrheart]

.357 mag lever gun loaded with "extreme shock" ammo!!!


...naw.

Tuff call.. I guess I could work with what ever I ended up with. Should I only be able to grab one gun and that all...
Id grab the one of the AR's. Only because I have so much in ammo and spares for it. As well, there will be a lot of ammo and spares to be found while SHTF and after SHTF. For hunting and long range work I have some really nice bolt guns I would have no issues defending my life with, but I would have less available to supply it with. And just how long would I need it... and just how much I would need, just would not know.
sooo.. yea Ill go with the AR in .223.

 

[SIG383]

That's a tough call....I would think that my AR would be my go to long gun. Accurate, lightweight, common ammo, I'm proficient with it, I have a lot of spare parts if needed... I could also have a .22LR upper to use for small game. You can take deer pretty easily with a well placed shot with .223. Like said previously, in a SHTF scenario, hunting rules/laws go out the window.

 

[cascadianliberty2012]

I would hope to never be in this type of situation leaving me with only one rifle. I would plan on arming a few friends and bringing all my weapons. I'd probably use a Saiga .308, have an AR-7 aka "Henry Survival Rifle" .22LR folded up in a pack, and a Springfield XD .45 sidearm. Let my "crew" have a scoped Mosin Nagant, Czech Mauser 8mm, Mossberg 500, and each of them have one of the remaining handguns: 1911, Ruger MkIII .22LR, Taurus Judge, and bring two 9mm pistols along as well.

 

[mkwerx]

I have only one rifle at the moment - so it'd have to be my AR. If my stable were larger, and I had some of the other rifles I want, it would still be a semi auto - only in either .300 blackout (which is a 7.62 caliber round in a .223 case), 7.62x39 or 7.62x51 if I had to choose only one. Bigger bullets put down game better - and the 7.62x39 is ballistically similar to the .30-30 - which is a great killer of deer. The 7.62x51 will kill any large game in the lower 48, plus any 2-legged predator that might need to be shot. My next solution would still be a semi-auto - in the form of a .30-06 M1 Garand.

If the S has HTF then there's a good chance I might have to engage other people in armed combat - and I would rather not handicap myself with a bolt action platform when other options are available. It might not have the same pinpoint precision as a scoped bolt gun - but semi autos give more versatility than bolt guns. And .30 caliber bullets will kill bigger game a lot better than .22 caliber bullets.

 

[AMProducts]

I'm not quite sure what you meant by deer and elk getting back up to breeding weight ? Under SHTF rules ( none) I could care less about big game biology and/or herd health. All I care about is feeding myself.

I think you're probably right about the preservation part though...however, I'd still rather shoot a deer. Or a bunch of them as need be.

Even in SHTF there are rules... minding the rules and laws of nature will be substantially more important come SHTF than it is now. Depleting a region of large mammals is considered a civil offense now, but it is easy to move on to another place, in a SHTF situation, it will be suicide. The expectation that SHTF somehow divorces the individual from responsibility or culpability for the actions taken is a fundamental fallacy.

When you go from a condition where food is plentiful and cheap, and into a situation where food is scarce and takes a significant investment to find any, you will not want to waste any of it, this means not only eating the meat, but the organs, the marrow, the blood and even the bones.

 

[Boats]

I have only one rifle at the moment - so it'd have to be my AR. If my stable were larger, and I had some of the other rifles I want, it would still be a semi auto - only in either .300 blackout (which is a 7.62 caliber round in a .223 case), 7.62x39 or 7.62x51 if I had to choose only one. Bigger bullets put down game better - and the 7.62x39 is ballistically similar to the .30-30 - which is a great killer of deer. The 7.62x51 will kill any large game in the lower 48, plus any 2-legged predator that might need to be shot. My next solution would still be a semi-auto - in the form of a .30-06 M1 Garand.

If the S has HTF then there's a good chance I might have to engage other people in armed combat - and I would rather not handicap myself with a bolt action platform when other options are available. It might not have the same pinpoint precision as a scoped bolt gun - but semi autos give more versatility than bolt guns. And .30 caliber bullets will kill bigger game a lot better than .22 caliber bullets.

How would you be handicapped by a bolt rifle? Your strategy would have to change, but it is no less viable than is getting into protracted firefights.

Certainly a bolt gunner is not going to need to carry 300 rounds. His magazine, with rare exceptions, is contained in the rifle. Powerful glass will give a range advantage to the careful mover using a flat shooting caliber. Iron sights on a SHTF bolt rifle are a must, just in case. The weight and bulk saved from not humping around ten mags and their ammo could be used to carry a very nice set of binoculars.

As an aside, .22lr has probably been used to kill every land animal on earth at one time or other. Sporting? No. Can be done? Certainly.

 

[mkwerx]

Since I'm not planning on packing up my wife and son and living in a tent in the hills unless there are no other options - we'll be stuck staying urban if the SHTF today. The likelihood of armed conflict in an urban, SHTF setting is far greater than folks in rural areas would face, at least initially. Shootings would likely occur at close ranges, and the assailants would more likely be armed with hand guns, semi auto rifles, or pump shotguns instead of bolt action rifles. In such a situation, a bolt action rifle could very well be a handicap due to it's lower capacity and slower rate of fire. A semi auto offers quicker engagements of multiple attackers - a benefit when defending one's family. Taking a look around my own neighborhood - if I had to defend my home from looters/robbers/pillagers (like we saw in post-Katrina NOLA) - the longest range with clear lanes of fire would be about 100 yards. I can hit man sized targets with the irons at 100 yards if I need to. My AR also wears a 3-9 power scope for more precise work (I intended it to be a multiple purpose rifle - home defense and varmint hunting, hence the setup).

If all a guy had was a bolt gun - it's better than nothing. But for the situation I see myself likely to face - a bolt gun is far from optimal. I don't need to take my shooting hand off the gun to work the action, or take my eye off the target between shots. I'm not limited to 4 or 5 rounds (which could be the number of assailants) in the magazine. Reload times are lower. Given the options - I'd take a semi auto first, a lever gun second, a pump gun third, and a bolt gun last if I could only pick one gun for SHTF use for my situation.

And while .22lr has killed almost everything that walks, crawls, or swims - it doesn't necessarily do it quickly. A .22 would be great for small game collecting - but it's not an ideal defensive round. It's no where near ideal for collecting larger game. Ideally - I wouldn't be limited to a single gun - others in my party would have other weapons to choose from. Someone would have a .22 pistol or preferably a .22 rifle. Someone would have a shotgun. Someone would have a bolt gun. Everyone would have a sidearm (which could negate some of the negatives I mentioned about bolt guns being slower and low capacity. A guy with a bolt gun for longer engagement range, and a pistol for shorter range stuff would probably be just fine.)

 

[Burt Gummer]

I voted bolt because I believe that nothing would be a better SHTF rifle than a bolt 300blk with subs, suppressed, with night optics (that can be used during the day like an N550). Wish I had one.

Remember, during SHTF it is most likely lights out and most of the baddies will be doing their thing at night. Hard to beat a whisper quiet 220g 1000fps bullet, no flash, no bang.

That said, a close second is a bolt (or 10/22, although cycling is a little noisy) for 22lr set up the same way. Preferably 60g - 1:9 twist in the 10/22; standard 38-40g in a bolt. About as loud as a mouse farting.

If people someday are just roaming around shooting at each other, you being able to remain 'invisible' would be a huge tactical advantage. It is pitch black and your 'opponent' might have the nicest AR made, but your little 22 with night optics and silencio wins.

His bang and flash are advertising to every marauder and thug exactly where he is at, you are like a ghost. This is all conjecture and coming from a guy who has never shot someone and hopes he can live the rest of his life w/o having to do just that.

Talking Urban here. Just imo.