Shooting in las vegas

[Wombat of Doom]

The mental health based background check is just one more piece of misdirected and dangerous legislation. Let me clearly state that I don't want guns (or any weapons) in the hands of "crazy" people. Here's the problem though; who decides who's crazy?

In a very real sense I help to do so. I would not want an overbroad mental health background check. Some folks have a one time crisis. Also, some of my coworkers believe the desire to own a gun is a sign of mental illness.

And let me clarify, we are all diagnosable. I know a psychiatrist who thought another psychiatrist was diagnosably paranoid because he believed MK ultra happened, Tuskeegee happened, that the CIA sold drugs at points, etc.

 

[Argonaut]

Yea these were full size aircraft - not actually drones.

Do you know how big a Predator Drone is? They are not something you would buy in a hobby shop. They have a 55 foot wingspan. I don't think the term drone has anything to do with size. JFK's older brother was killed developing drone aircraft from B17's (I think) they were loading them with bombs and remote controlling them into European targets in WWll. We routinely build drones out of large obsolete aircraft to use as live fire targets on military ranges.

 

[JimmyS1985]

Basically what you're telling me is there's not much we can do, except maybe universal mental healthcare. The hardware will be available regardless of your intentions.

I'm trying to think of ideas that could stop these shootings from happening, at least I'm entertaining ideas in my head on what could be done.

I dunno, seems to me a Class 3 firearm would be ideal for a mass shooter. Those have been banned since 1986 and virtually never get used in a crime, whatever law Reagan signed off on in 86, clearly worked at keeping those weapons out of evil individuals hands. Seems to me that was an effective law for keeping those weapons out of criminals hands.

But why try to get a $20,000 pre-ban when you can spend $99 on a bump-fire stock? It seems the Pro-Gun crowd is about as clueless on how to stop these as anyone else.

 

[3MTA3]

You haven't visited many foreign countries have you? I remember talking to a group of French college students and one of them laughed at how "America doesn't win any wars anymore", after we tried to sucker in and heavily criticized (remember Freedom Fries?) not getting France to join in on our ill-fated and unwinnable war.

As a matter of fact I have for both business and recreation.

BTW that war was all but won when Obama played politics and pulled out early. We got ISIS over that brilliant piece of strategy. The US does lose wars but it's the politicians and not the soldiers that make us lose. RTry reading a bit of history outside what you were taught in public schools - you will eventually be enlightened a bit.

The thought that the French were laughing at us over not winning a war is beyond laughable. What was the last war the French fought in that didn't require us to save their azzes? WW1, WW2, and even Vietnam were wars we came to their aid.

 

[Slobray]

I specifically stated that people we know for sure are going to use those for the purposes of a terrorist attack, should be banned from purchasing. No one on here debates whether felons should be allowed firearms, so why would you want mass shooters to have these weapons? Felons are not ok with you, but mass shooters is fine? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

The other countries all laugh at us whenever these things happen. Like my Canadian friend said "Mass shootings are as American as baseball and apple pie!"

Maybe I'm missing something here................ but name one of the past mass murders, where someone knew for a fact the person was going to do it and we (as a society) could have stopped it before it happened?


Ray

 

[JimmyS1985]

Actually De-Baathification and the invasion itself lead to the creation of ISIS. That's a very unstable part of the world, we got involved, and now it's more unstable than ever.

If Bush couldn't wrap up the war in 5 years, that's on him, not Obama. We won WWII in only 3.5 years.

 

[JimmyS1985]

Maybe I'm missing something here................ but name one of the past mass murders, where someone knew for a fact the person was going to do it and we (as a society) could have stopped it before it happened?


Ray

List of unsuccessful terrorist plots in the United States post-9/11 - Wikipedia

 

[edslhead]

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Basically what you're telling me is there's not much we can do, except maybe universal mental healthcare. The hardware will be available regardless of your intentions.

I'm trying to think of ideas that could stop these shootings from happening, at least I'm entertaining ideas in my head on what could be done.

I dunno, seems to me a Class 3 firearm would be ideal for a mass shooter. Those have been banned since 1986 and virtually never get used in a crime, whatever law Reagan signed off on in 86, clearly worked at keeping those weapons out of evil individuals hands. Seems to me that was an effective law for keeping those weapons out of criminals hands.

But why try to get a $20,000 pre-ban when you can spend $99 on a bump-fire stock? It seems the Pro-Gun crowd is about as clueless on how to stop these as anyone else.

You are a left wing anti-gunner. Don't pretend otherwise.


BTW, they were seldom used in crimes prior to '86 either. IIRC, it was a cop who used a machinegun. So we have a grand total of one crime since 1934 with class 3.

Rifles are virtually never used in a crime by comparison to blunt objects. But you must use the dead to strip the rights of the law abiding before the bodies are cold.

 

[JimmyS1985]

You are a left wing anti-gunner. Don't pretend otherwise.


BTW, they were seldom used in crimes prior to '86 either. IIRC, it was a cop who used a machinegun. So we have a grand total of one crime since 1934 with class 3.

Rifles are virtually never used in a crime by comparison to blunt objects. But you must use the dead to strip the rights of the law abiding before the bodies are cold.

I have a high opinion of Reagan and think he crafted a good law. Maybe you're just a guy who wishes you could get Class 3 firearms and are mad that you can't.

 

[308]

 

[Argonaut]

Actually De-Baathification and the invasion itself lead to the creation of ISIS. That's a very unstable part of the world, we got involved, and now it's more unstable than ever.

If Bush couldn't wrap up the war in 5 years, that's on him, not Obama. We won WWII in only 3.5 years.

We could wrap up the war in 90 days if we would unhandcuff our military. We are doing better now but that is what the libs were upset about when the Russians started taking a more active roll. They don't play the same silly games with there Military as we do.........they wil just kill them all and be done with it. I did hear that Trump ordered a huge number of new MOAB's...........that is a start.

 

[JimmyS1985]

We could wrap up thevwat in 90 days if we would unhandcuff our military. We are doing better now but that is what the libs were upset about when the Russians started taking a more active roll. They don't play the same silly games with there Military as we do.........they wil just kill them all and be done with it. I did hear that Trump ordered a huge number of new MOAB's...........that is a start.

What do you mean "Unhandcuff our military" like commit war crimes?\

Yea I guess if you kill all 26 million Iraqi's in a mass genocide, technically there's no one left to fight you.

I'd argue that our military just isn't all that good at asymmetrical warfare.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

I have a high opinion of Reagan and think he crafted a good law. Maybe you're just a guy who wishes you could get Class 3 firearms and are mad that you can't.

I can.

You are an anti-constitutional leftist who likes to throw out false insults about anyone who disagrees with him. I am a well read, well traveled individual with a nice income and a pristine record, so I can both afford, and have transferred to me class 3 firearms. And Reagan did not craft the Hughes amendment.

 

[Lilhigbee]

See my post page 16. I was wondering the same thing. Why use guns when he could have done more damage and death with a fully fueled aircraft?

From a humanitarian standpoint, certainly not a political one, I am glad he used firearms. Absolute minimum of three days planning, probably weeks, maybe months, at least $15K, maybe more than $20K spent on equipment, ammunition and hotel room, and he managed to kill 59 people?? Pretty poor showing if you ask me.
Spend $50 to get his medical current, the cost of two cheap AR's to rent a small plane, the cost of a few hundred rounds of ammo to fill it up, and fly it into the crowd at about a thirty degree angle at 120+MPH and see what the casualty count would be. All done on an afternoon whim, no real planning necessary. Save the cost of plane rental and use one of his own.
I don't know what his purpose was, but if it was body count he failed miserably.
With that kind of time to plan and the financial resources he had, he could have done much, much more damage. We should be grateful he thought firearms were the way to go and had access to them. Without them this could have been hundreds dead, thousands wounded.

Flame on!!

 

[RingingEars]

Why are we talking about silly things like this? He guy could have done just as much if not more damage with a Toyota Highlander hybrid.........

+1 Seems to work in the EU. Take their guns and the crackpots just rent vans and start mowing people down...

 

[JimmyS1985]

I can.

You are an anti-constitutional leftist who likes to throw out false insults about anyone who disagrees with him. I am a well read, well traveled individual with a nice income and a pristine record, so I can both afford, and have transferred to me class 3 firearms. And Reagan did not craft the Hughes amendment.

Ok, so how do you propose we stop mass shootings since you're so knowledgeable? I want to know what you would have done to stop the shooter the moment he started firing the first bullets into the crowd. I want to know the solution. I got ideas in my head, but apparently they're off limits because they might "offend" people here.

 

[Argonaut]

What do you mean "Unhandcuff our military" like commit war crimes?\

Yea I guess if you kill all 26 million Iraqi's in a mass genocide, technically there's no one left to fight you.

I'd argue that our military just isn't all that good at asymmetrical warfare.

The idea of war crimes is in the deffination. You probably think dropping the nukes on Japan constitutes a war crime. I call it winning a war with the most efficiency and least death possible.

 

[Slobray]

List of unsuccessful terrorist plots in the United States post-9/11 - Wikipedia

Apples to oranges: Mass shootings vs terror plots (bombings). Not one of those listed have mentioned an individual who was planning on shooting up some place, almost all were people trying to blow something up.

Maybe I should have clarified "mass shooting", but with us being on a gun forum and talking about a mass shooting, I thought it was pretty obvious.......... Oh well.

So, can you name one instance, where someone knew for a fact the person was going to commit a "mass shooting" and we (as a society) could have stopped it before it happened?


Ray

 

[JimmyS1985]

The idea of war crimes is in the deffination. You probably think dropping the nukes on Japan constitutes a war crime. I call it winning a war with the most efficiency and least death possible.

https://www.amazon.com/Hiroshima-Am...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=Z2GY67NBCN0PA6V18DVM

I do have this book in my library. Definitely read a bit here or there on the topic at hand.

The Soviet Union entering the war probably had more to do with Japan's surrender than the Atomic bombings. We firebombed Tokyo and it produced more casualties than either of the bombings.