Oregon Assault Weapons Ban Proposal

[etrain16]

We should we? Because we want to win... Right?

I have seen plenty of people on here that claim willingness to take arms and start taking lives to get their way. How short sighted is it too not see that as terrifying from the other side? The side that may want your guns, may want nothing, and may just not care to be involved.

The second we are start behaving like violent people, or attacking them by faulting them personally because it conflicts with beliefs of their own etc, THAT puts you on their radar when you might otherwise have not been. Now instead of dealing with an uninformed person, you are trying to reverse the fear and hate just to get to your agenda.

Auto correct is making this a pain...

That's quite a jump. You're now saying that the anti-gun side perceives us as wanting to pick up our guns and start blasting away - and we need to fix that perception? So we're bigot Christian anti-gay racist psychos that can't wait to go on a shooting spree?

I will not dignify that kind of misinformation/assumption on their part. The evidence that we're not like that is in front of them - every single day of their lives. 100,000,000 gun owners. 300,000,000 guns. Yet gun homicides remain at about 11,000 per year. It's a fraction of a percentage of all gun owners. How dare they lump us together like that? There is no reasonable basis for their false perception save for their own fear and misinformation.

Do you really think they want to listen to us? Do you really think they will see us differently? I agree this needs to be a one on one effort to make converts, but I refuse to apologize to them for their false assumptions.

That's it. I'll leave it for others to respond. I am not a violent person. I never have been. My record stands for itself as a gun owner for 35 years. That should be enough. If they can't accept that truth, then they truly are the ones with the problem.

 

[WareWolf]

That's quite a jump. You're now saying that the anti-gun side perceives us as wanting to pick up our guns and start blasting away - and we need to fix that perception? So we're bigot Christian anti-gay racist psychos that can't wait to go on a shooting spree?

I will not dignify that kind of misinformation/assumption on their part. The evidence that we're not like that is in front of them - every single day of their lives. 100,000,000 gun owners. 300,000,000 guns. Yet gun homicides remain at about 11,000 per year. It's a fraction of a percentage of all gun owners. How dare they lump us together like that? There is no reasonable basis for their false perception save for their own fear and misinformation.

Do you really think they want to listen to us? Do you really think they will see us differently? I agree this needs to be a one on one effort to make converts, but I refuse to apologize to them for their false assumptions.

That's it. I'll leave it for others to respond. I am not a violent person. I never have been. My record stands for itself as a gun owner for 35 years. That should be enough. If they can't accept that truth, then they truly are the ones with the problem.

I pretty much agree with your statements in general. I don't see how I made a jump though, if you take into context all my replies as a rolling dialog.

I think that may be why we are struggling to communicate here.. I have been trying to speak from my observations of both sides operations and the problems with them because I have been trying to be inclusive of all the hurdles, and a few folks on here are taking what I am saying as my personal beliefs or judgements and responding as if they were personally attacked.

I have to believe they can change their perceptions though, if anything for the sheer number of people that I have made a positive impression on when they found out I had firearms or took them shooting. I am sure a lot of people have their same experiences.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Oregon's tax laws are unconstitutional as it is.. Seriously, Oregon has one of the highest state income taxes in the USA and they have already proven the Oregon state government has reaped way more taxes than its required budget, so the money generally just goes into the hands of those who don't want to work for a living and freeload off the system.

Forbes just rated Oregon the worst state in mainland America to run a business due to its anti-business politics and excessive taxation.

A gun ban is just the beginning of what is going wrong with the state of Oregon and its communist/large bureaucratic government structure. It truly seems to want to rival California as being a welfare/bureaucratic police/communist state.

If this crooked government wants to pass an unconstitutional gun ban, then I think giving 8-10% of your paycheck to this vile state government would be an immoral act. Especially, considering there are many other states who need your money who are protecting your freedoms rather than working to destroy them.

My opinion stands, if Oregon passes an Assault Weapon Ban/Gun Ban of any kind, vote with your tax money. Most gun owners/conservatives are hard working, honest, tax paying citizens and many of these liberals/socialists/anti-gunners are freeloading, unskilled and contribute not a lot to their states. They are the ones who demand free iPhones for the poor and cannot stand that a person who works an 80 hour work week gets to take home all that money when it could be redistributed to the guy who smokes weed by the freeway all day with the sign.

Considering Oregon's atrocious state tax, I already am shocked that Oregonians are not protesting. Then again, many have protested and left and the commies in government seem to just not care. Thankfully, they have enough rich Californians to keep pouring money into the economy, but with Oregon's tax system and increasing living costs, they can only thrive off of the Californian transplants for so long, who will be jobless sooner or later and start seeing their large savings dwindle.

I agree , if an Assault Weapon Ban passes in Oregon, don't pay your taxes to traitorous criminals.

I do agree but for every gun friendly family that moves out of Oregon I'd be willing to bet that many Kalifornication liberals will replace them.....
Cheap housing!!!!

 

[Caveman Jim]

I can't agree with that statement. There is one very distinct difference between the two sides. The pro-gun side is simply asking that their right to keep and bear arms remain untouched, uninfringed. They are not out asking to pass laws to force people that have no desire to own guns to be required to own them (save for one town in Georgia). They want to be left alone without arbitrary restrictions, government lists, taxes, etc, all based on their constitutional rights.

The anti-gun side, however does want to take rights from others. They do want to infringe. They do want to force others to live under their anti-gun choices. They are not content to live and let live. If they had their way, they would end gun ownership today.

Yes, there is a distinct difference between the two sides. All other partisan issues aside, only one group, the anti-gun group, is seeking to take rights away from others based on their personal views. This has pit the pro-gun side on the defensive for several decades now. And that is very frustrating. No wonder pro-gun folks get so worked up.

EXACTLY, how would they like it if WE started attacking THEIR 1A rights ( not that we would) but you get my point. They want to erode our 2A rights one cut at a time.

 

[DuneHopper]

EXACTLY, how would they like it if WE started attacking THEIR 1A rights ( not that we would) but you get my point. They want to disintegrat our 2A rights one cut at a time.

We need new bumper stickers. Be sure to Spay and Neuter your Anti-Liberal.
Remember only you can stop insanity at birth.

So it would read: Spay and Neuter your Anti Gun -Liberal its for the Children. ( fixed)

So after awhile there would be no liberal to pass anything

 

[JAFO]

Stopping the abuse of the "emergency clause" should be our first priority. It shouldn't be too hard to get people on all sides of the political spectrum to support this (other than the elitists already in Salem).

<broken link removed>

I do agree but for every gun friendly family that moves out of Oregon I'd be willing to bet that many Kalifornication liberals will replace them.....
Cheap housing!!!!

And half of those will be non-contributors that use more government services than they support. This is the main short-sightedness of the left. When there are more takers than givers in the state and they have no kicker to try to embezzle from the people then they *might* see a speck of light.

http://www.heritage.org/research/re...tes-are-getting-richer-and-blue-states-poorer

 

[Caveman Jim]

We need new bumper stickers. Be sure to Spay and Neuter your Anti-Liberal.
Remember only you can stop insanity at birth.

So it would read: Spay and Neuter your Anti-Liberal its for the Children.

So after awhile there would be no liberal to pass anything

UM, that can be misconstrued as conservatives.... anti-liberal (against liberals)..... just sayin....
Spay and Neuter your Anti-Constitution Liberals, it's for the children. better?

 

[DuneHopper]

UM, that can be misconstrued as conservatives.... anti-liberal (against liberals)..... just sayin....
Spay and Neuter your Anti-Constitution Liberals, it's for the children. better?

ROFL, I fixed it gees . Going after a high paying job today looking for a change guess my mind was elsewhere thanks for the catch CJ..

 

[RVTECH]

Why can't they do their research and find out we're not who the media portrays us to be?

Because they don't HAVE to do their research - they are already convinced guns need to go. If you compare liberal 'causes' over the years EG Spotted Owls, Klamath Basin minnows etc and other things THEY want to save they have all the answers - and even then most likely not due to any research of their own but mostly just believing what they are told. And of you really look at it MOST liberal causes tend to be largely in part anti conservative, with most wanting to take something of conservative value or origin AWAY, leaving US always fighting to keep it - AND while we whip ourselves into a frenzy over how to 'fight' it, they are sitting on their azzes calmly and collectively pushing their agenda in ever increasing numbers. It would be nice if 'we' had something as powerfully anti-liberal we were protesting and trying to eliminate with a solid, conservative voice in support of as strongly as they have a liberal voice AGAINST, as with guns.

 

[Caveman Jim]

ROFL, I fixed it gees . Going after a high paying job today looking for a change guess my mind was elsewhere thanks for the catch CJ..

I'm just here to be of service to all my gun lovin brothers, I got your back!!!

 

[Member 34319]

We need new bumper stickers. Be sure to Spay and Neuter your Anti-Liberal.
Remember only you can stop insanity at birth.

So it would read: Spay and Neuter your Anti Gun -Liberal its for the Children. ( fixed)

So after awhile there would be no liberal to pass anything

Honestly I think we should try something a little different from the normal attack of liberals.

One thing the liberals has, for the most part, is they all agree guns are bad.

We gun owners, as represented by this thread alone, haven't truly unified to fight back.

If we gathered together with the same mindset and tactics to get the remaining populace that simply doesn't care, to view us as a good group of people getting wrongfully accused of stuff we did not do. Only then spending more time with the populace in the middle and not trying to prove the other guy wrong, we might stand a chance.

I know the Jews wore stars not by choice, but by force. So picture this.

Gun owners wore a star on there car like that of a Jew, to show our injustice. It would probably be better than a NRA sticker right about now seeing as your likely labeled as a terrorist for that sticker these days.

People that don't care, look at the right and see they hate the left. They look at the left and they see that they hate the right, but they also play to the emotional aspects the left throw into the mix. We just throw in logic, like that boring high school chemistry teachers who's monologue and monotone slowly put you to sleep.

Want to win, throw a black, poor, 5-7 year old child in front of the crowd and have him explain how his sister got mowed down in Chicago by gang members because she worked in a shady area and was denied a concealed carry permit. Make sure the kid is crying too.

Too many different, more or less logical, point of views coming from those on this side.

We need to come together, pick a good balanced logical and emotional stance, and work the crap out of it.

 

[Member 34319]

It doesn't offend me, but it does concern me.

The point I'm making though is that you are suggesting that WE need to correct the misconception people have about us. WE need to reach out. WE need to prove we're not the psychos they think we are.

My point is, why should WE have to prove anything? Why can't they do their research and find out we're not who the media portrays us to be?

It should concern the hell out of you.

We do need to do those things. The implementation has already taken place from the years of boiling the frog on the left.

Those that don't care about gun rights, DON'T CARE. They are not going to do their own research, they are not concerned with the facts. They are going to watch the news and get bombarded with the supposedly true facts that the media portrays. IE you are a NRA terrorist.

We need to get emotional, get pissed off. Show these people not only are these viewpoints are incorrect, but down right offensive.

A good friend that worked for Nevada department of wildlife once told me a goo story that I love to use as an example for guns. There are roughly 10% of Nevadans that are pro hunting, and roughly 10% that are anti hunting. The other 80% could give two turds. The left wins by showing poor Bambi in the back of a truck on the freeway, it strikes emotions in the men women and children of the 80% that don't care about Bambi. The kid walks up to the parents after seeing the ad and asks why poor Bambi was dead in that truck. NDOW, obviously primarily right wing type folk, got together with a few hunting organizations and ran a commercial in attempt to fight this one. All it had was they lie, here are the facts about how our organization works to conserve Bambi.

Moral of the story took me a few years to figure out after countless times it was told to me by my friend in Nevada, as he repeated it often when we talked about guns. We are a special breed, ones that use logic in everyday things, our jobs, our decisions, the way we treat folks. If you take that number, 10% and apply it to these type of logical thinkers. Then apply the other 10% that don't use logic and combine the 80% that don't use logic or maybe they do, but it's not obvious they care.

My point is, logic probably is not going to do anything but further educate those that understand and react well to logic.

 

[DMax]

In all sales presentations speaking to your target audience is as important as the product you are selling. Progressives emot do not logically think. To them it's all about the utopian ideology . What's logical to us is obscured to them and vica versa. The solution is to mirror back the oburdity from their perspective to them which is logical to us. Example antis will do and say whatever they need to contract our constitutional rights which puts us on the defensive . We need to push back and respond with the force of unification and intense conviction it's time to EXPAND our 2A rights. Putting progressives in fear and defense.

Let the jedi mind tricks begin.

 

[etrain16]

It should concern the hell out of you.

We do need to do those things. The implementation has already taken place from the years of boiling the frog on the left.

Those that don't care about gun rights, DON'T CARE. They are not going to do their own research, they are not concerned with the facts. They are going to watch the news and get bombarded with the supposedly true facts that the media portrays. IE you are a NRA terrorist.

We need to get emotional, get pissed off. Show these people not only are these viewpoints are incorrect, but down right offensive.

A good friend that worked for Nevada department of wildlife once told me a goo story that I love to use as an example for guns. There are roughly 10% of Nevadans that are pro hunting, and roughly 10% that are anti hunting. The other 80% could give two turds. The left wins by showing poor Bambi in the back of a truck on the freeway, it strikes emotions in the men women and children of the 80% that don't care about Bambi. The kid walks up to the parents after seeing the ad and asks why poor Bambi was dead in that truck. NDOW, obviously primarily right wing type folk, got together with a few hunting organizations and ran a commercial in attempt to fight this one. All it had was they lie, here are the facts about how our organization works to conserve Bambi.

Moral of the story took me a few years to figure out after countless times it was told to me by my friend in Nevada, as he repeated it often when we talked about guns. We are a special breed, ones that use logic in everyday things, our jobs, our decisions, the way we treat folks. If you take that number, 10% and apply it to these type of logical thinkers. Then apply the other 10% that don't use logic and combine the 80% that don't use logic or maybe they do, but it's not obvious they care.

My point is, logic probably is not going to do anything but further educate those that understand and react well to logic.

I agree, we do need to be pissed off. We need to call these people out as what they really are - liars. Liars that use the most base emotion - fear, to manipulate people into giving them what they want, all the while distracting them with talk of social justice for the downtrodden. And who would dare to speak out about helping the poor and indigent? It's a power grab and they damn well know it. They don't give a rip about saving lives, because there are much more pressing problems killing Americans than guns. They are a corrupt bunch of sleazebags and their voters love them for it.

But I won't abandon my collection or use of facts and figures. I know the politicians won't listen, at least those on the anti-gun side. They were presented with plenty of evidence earlier this year that more BGC's wouldn't stop anything, but they ignored the facts and did it anyway.

I am more interested in the 'on the fence' voters. The ones that maybe helped put these shrunken nutbags in office, but may actually be waking up and realizing what they've done, and what is being done to them. The recent Washington Post article (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ate-and-state-gun-laws/?tid=pm_opinions_pop_b) stating that there is "Zero correlation between state homicide rate and state gun laws", is a perfect example of facts that just may sway voters away from putting these douche nozzles back in office.

2016 will be an interesting year in Oregon. We're probably going to take it hard with some even more restrictive gun laws, and then come the elections. I wonder, will Oregonians send a message that there is a limit to how far you can overstep your authority before we snap you back? I sure hope so. But it will take EVERY SINGLE PRO-GUN VOTER in the state to vote pro-gun in the next election - all other concerns aside. Or, 2017 will be even worse yet. It's coming, it's already here. Only the voters can stop it.

 

[ThePhonMan]

DMax, I think you're onto something there. Lets push hard for national reciprocity, all firearms sales to any allowed person across state lines, repealing the NFA, GCA, etc. Start hammering for expanded rights and put the anti's on the defensive.

Did anybody happen to see this TV commercial during The O'Reilly Factor last night? This is the kind of thing that could sway anybody who is not an anti-gun zealot to our way of thinking. It's one person's story and I'm sure there are millions more. We need to personalize the fight so it's not the anti's versus to big bad NRA. It's the anti's versus you, your family, friends and neighbors.

 

[DuneHopper]

The recalls are an example of organizational failure by the us the Pro-gun moment/defense, I know its not popular to think how we fight and what we fought with is no longer effective.
Let do the math, out of a few 100,000 people getting 10K was difficult ? That is just scary I live in little Roseburg and that's only half our population. As many have said we need to fight, but I tell you what we also need to have pressure are Oregon's lobby's to fight as we ask them to. One can flip that coin easily and say Oregon lobby's fought hard, and we can flip that coin and say ya and they failed. Everyone always focuses on why we failed because of majority and lies. Does not matter if that is accurate or not after the fact the reality is Lobby's made no difference not in NOV votes, not in session and not in Recalls.
I keep looking at OK fine lets look at what the Antis did and go or boo hoo they didnt fight fair which is just about in any lobby release I have read, and as we see that language does not motivate people it gets them riles but never seems to result in motivation. Its going to take a move that we are not comfortable with or used to and hopefully the supporting lobbies wake up and smell the coffee if we go back and try and beat the antis into submission it wont work, it hasn't worked. However if we go on the offensive something we never do, and if we get a farther reaching education going we could do it. Its obvious Oregon gun owners by shear motivation of loosing rights as we have had yet to equal changes. We must ask why ? And my opinion is we keep preaching to the choir. the NRA and OFF sell our ideas to like minded people ok great. but that as we have seen is " NOT" enough we need to reach those that do not own firearms yet are pro-freedom. We need to reach the confused. If we think talking to all gun owners and asking them to help us change things will work all one has to do is look at all the gun owners that did not change election, session votes or a recall and that is the evidence we must be looking at.

 

[etrain16]

The recalls are an example of organizational failure by the us the Pro-gun moment/defense, I know its not popular to think how we fight and what we fought with is no longer effective.
Let do the math, out of a few 100,000 people getting 10K was difficult ? That is just scary I live in little Roseburg and that's only half our population. As many have said we need to fight, but I tell you what we also need to have pressure are Oregon's lobby's to fight as we ask them to. One can flip that coin easily and say Oregon lobby's fought hard, and we can flip that coin and say ya and they failed. Everyone always focuses on why we failed because of majority and lies. Does not matter if that is accurate or not after the fact the reality is Lobby's made no difference not in NOV votes, not in session and not in Recalls.
I keep looking at OK fine lets look at what the Antis did and go or boo hoo they didnt fight fair which is just about in any lobby release I have read, and as we see that language does not motivate people it gets them riles but never seems to result in motivation. Its going to take a move that we are not comfortable with or used to and hopefully the supporting lobbies wake up and smell the coffee if we go back and try and beat the antis into submission it wont work, it hasn't worked. However if we go on the offensive something we never do, and if we get a farther reaching education going we could do it. Its obvious Oregon gun owners by shear motivation of loosing rights as we have had yet to equal changes. We must ask why ? And my opinion is we keep preaching to the choir. the NRA and OFF sell our ideas to like minded people ok great. but that as we have seen is " NOT" enough we need to reach those that do not own firearms yet are pro-freedom. We need to reach the confused. If we think talking to all gun owners and asking them to help us change things will work all one has to do is look at all the gun owners that did not change election, session votes or a recall and that is the evidence we must be looking at.

So, the real question is, who can pull it all together? I like that OFF fights for us in Oregon, but it's just about a one man operation with Kevin at the helm. When was the last time anyone even got an alert/email from OFF? I have to go back at least a month to find anything from them. Meanwhile, the legislators in Salem are working behind the scenes to prepare their next assault on us for the short 2016 session.

Heck, I think even SAF in Washington does substantially more. They bring lawsuits. They have, I believe much more lobbying power than OFF.

I honestly don't expect the NRA to do our fighting for us here. They are fighting in Washington, which is where we need them. Here at home, I agree, we are disorganized with no one big, powerful group to rally behind. Pro-gun folks admit to skipping the vote because they don't think their vote will matter, or they vote for the very anti-gun politicians that are doing this to us because they are afraid of the scary 'republicans' that will take away food stamps from a starving baby living on the streets.

We do need a rallying point, and I don't think that OFF fits the bill. I have nothing against them, but they just don't seem to really have much to offer in the way of swinging votes. I know that Kevin is known among legislators, but they don't seem to be afraid of him or OFF. SAF, however, seems to be a thorn in the side of the state of WA on a pretty regular basis.

And how about GOA or the NSSF? Are they fighting for us here in Oregon?

We are faced with not just an uphill battle, but a vast mountain range, built up by anti-gun politicians with heavy financial backing and bolstered by voters that give them what they want - the power to take rights away.

I agree with your sentiment, but without a single point to rally around with this state, we'll continue to be a ragtag group of angry gun owners that are somewhat impotent at this time to do much about it.

I wish there was a better answer. I, for one, don't know what it is.

 

[WareWolf]

So, the real question is, who can pull it all together? I like that OFF fights for us in Oregon, but it's just about a one man operation with Kevin at the helm. When was the last time anyone even got an alert/email from OFF? I have to go back at least a month to find anything from them. Meanwhile, the legislators in Salem are working behind the scenes to prepare their next assault on us for the short 2016 session.

Heck, I think even SAF in Washington does substantially more. They bring lawsuits. They have, I believe much more lobbying power than OFF.

I honestly don't expect the NRA to do our fighting for us here. They are fighting in Washington, which is where we need them. Here at home, I agree, we are disorganized with no one big, powerful group to rally behind. Pro-gun folks admit to skipping the vote because they don't think their vote will matter, or they vote for the very anti-gun politicians that are doing this to us because they are afraid of the scary 'republicans' that will take away food stamps from a starving baby living on the streets.

We do need a rallying point, and I don't think that OFF fits the bill. I have nothing against them, but they just don't seem to really have much to offer in the way of swinging votes. I know that Kevin is known among legislators, but they don't seem to be afraid of him or OFF. SAF, however, seems to be a thorn in the side of the state of WA on a pretty regular basis.

And how about GOA or the NSSF? Are they fighting for us here in Oregon?

We are faced with not just an uphill battle, but a vast mountain range, built up by anti-gun politicians with heavy financial backing and bolstered by voters that give them what they want - the power to take rights away.

I agree with your sentiment, but without a single point to rally around with this state, we'll continue to be a ragtag group of angry gun owners that are somewhat impotent at this time to do much about it.

I wish there was a better answer. I, for one, don't know what it is.

You have the time? Sounds like you got this! [emoji6]

 

[etrain16]

You have the time? Sounds like you got this! [emoji6]

I think you've confused me with someone that could actually organize such a movement. Thanks, but that's definitely not me

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

if a guy were to have an ar15 type rifle... is it considered an "assalt rifle" if when purchased in pieces and then built when only the LOWER receiver was bought thru an FFL? how would anyone or how would it be anyones business to know if it was anything other than JUST a lower receiver?

*80% lower starts sounding better and better everytime i hear about one for sale.

just sayin.