Open letter to .22 ammo Buyers and Sellers

[RVTECH]

My point is that retail stores actually sell well below true market value.

No, what the stores are doing is maintaining price integrity and following fair retail markup. $46 or more a brick is NOT true market value - it is an artificially inflated price by a few scalpers and the few that are paying it are not establishing a true market value. If it were the true market value don' t you think the heads of the major retailers would order an immediate price increase? They KNOW it is not the TMV and most likely understand supply will eventually catch up. If they raised their prices to say $46 or more and then the supply comes back they would be stuck with unsold ammo that would sit on the shelves and then ultimately have to reduce their prices back to levels with a normal markup AND they would be regarded as nothing more than scalpers themselves. Large retail businesses are smart and know they have a reputation to uphold and a customer base to keep happy to stay in business. Nope - the scalpers who think they are 'cutting a fat hog' are probably doing little more than earning enough for themselves to shoot for free given the time and energy to required to sell a few bricks.

 

[cpy911]

RVTECH.
Thanks for pointing this out. I don't know where 22lrforsale is deciding on TMV. He quoted $75 for a brick and then says $46 is good too and is a bargain for us at NWFA as he could get more somewhere else. Actually, if stores marked it up this much, very few would buy it. Why?

The answer: I am reloading cast centerfire .223 and 30-30 rifle loads for just about 10 cents a round. That is about what 22lrforsale is selling his 22lr for. Why would I want to shoot the .22lr when I can get way more bang for the buck blasting away with my AR or Marlin 336?

I have been happily shooting cast loads in pistols and rifles and leaving the .22lr at home during this scalper and hoarder artificially induced 22lr panic shortage. Eventually this will all blow over and the bricks will be sitting there at bi-mart for me to grab at about $20 a piece. I will buy one to shoot my .22lr. For now, shooting is still fun and I had a lot of reloading components on hand to tide me over.

People will wise up and either start reloading or stop feeding the scalping mentality.

I suggested 22lrforsale move on and get his maximum profit some where else instead of upsetting people here. Not sure what his plans are, but scalpers seem to be not so welcome here, which is fine by me.

No, what the stores are doing is maintaining price integrity and following fair retail markup. $46 or more a brick is NOT true market value - it is an artificially inflated price by a few scalpers and the few that are paying it are not establishing a true market value. If it were the true market value don' t you think the heads of the major retailers would order an immediate price increase? They KNOW it is not the TMV and most likely understand supply will eventually catch up. If they raised their prices to say $46 or more and then the supply comes back they would be stuck with unsold ammo that would sit on the shelves and then ultimately have to reduce their prices back to levels with a normal markup AND they would be regarded as nothing more than scalpers themselves. Large retail businesses are smart and know they have a reputation to uphold and a customer base to keep happy to stay in business. Nope - the scalpers who think they are 'cutting a fat hog' are probably doing little more than earning enough for themselves to shoot for free given the time and energy to required to sell a few bricks.

 

[RVTECH]

It's not unlike a pot head who scrapes up enough to buy a pound then bags and sells enough to cover his investment and has free pot to smoke. He isn't really getting ahead just that he has some stash he didn't have to pay for but then that is eventually gone and he is again left with no money and no stash. The scalpers are fooling themselves if they think they are establishing a new market value because they are not.

 

[3MTA3]

Because of people like you.

I like how you try and justify your flipping ammo for personal gain, like you are doing us a favor lol.

The self justification in everything 22lrforsale writes tells the whole story. Its obvious that he has lied to himself so many times he believes the lie. Personally, I wouldn't buy a brick for one dollar from him. A very sad way to live the one life you have.

 

[SVT-ROY]

Just another ignore button that's all. Let "her" be and make a few bucks. Obviously "she" needs the extra few dollars to justify the sweet new hi point.

 

[Spitpatch]

I am not a "scalper". I am also not a hoarder. I have not become one or the either in the current real crisis. I did not "stockpile", and truthfully, I did not "prepare".

But I DO hold a very moderate amount of .22lr that I have accumulated over very many years, buying when on sale, or when particularly good quality .22's were available. I like to shoot..... A LOT!

Here is a seminal account of what is going on right now, and my consideration towards it:

A neighbor friend said he had a buddy looking for .22's, and couldn't find any. I advised that bricks at any given gunshow for a year were going for $70 quality grade, to $50 economy grade.

The "buddy" showed up at my house with neighbor friend about a week later (looking for .22's). I placed a brick of economy grade in front of him, and told him, "fifty bucks: saves you gas money and parking at the gunshow."

Am I a "gouger"?

Before you answer, I will swear on a Bible, that any 8-12 year old kid who runs out of .22 shells won't do it in my yard or on my range. He'll get all I have, free for the asking.

"Buddy" didn't leave with any shells, and I didn't get my fifty bucks. Good deal for the next forlorn 8-12 year-old that shows up on the doorstep.

 

[forefathersrback]

Recently I gave my son a brick of .22, so he could take his kids out (my Grandkids) to do some target shooting. I told him not to pay the high prices that people are seeking. I think it's a shame that prices are so high, it's been a great entry level ammo for young kids to shoot. Now It's way over priced. Something to think about.

 

[Phillyfan]

Look. What this comes down to is a gut check. What kind of person are you? A few months ago there was a troop of young ones going out to camp and the kind individuals taking them were going to teach them to shoot. They needed some much valued .22lr ammo to do so, but could not find it (maybe because of people like yourself looking for a profit). Myself and others from this site were quick to donate (a thing that makes me feel proud to be a part of this brotherhood), free of charge, thousands of rounds of this "commodity" to the cause.

Your one time luck of the draw moment defines who you really are. Are you going to join in and become part of the problem, or are you going to do what is right? Honestly, keeping it for yourself and not trying to sell it for extreme profit is more respectable. The only way to get this stupidity back in check is for us to stop bowing down to these mongers. Stop paying. Once the cash is gone this whole thing ends. I call for all of us to go without shooting, if necessary, to bring the markets back in line.

And for you, 22lrforsale, look in the mirror. Acting as if you are doing us a favor for charging half of what others are gouging us for? Is that to be considered a favor? You are doing us a solid? You are feeding into what is the cause of all of this. You are not a capitalist. A true capitalist makes gains on natural market movement, this is a market that is being manipulated and you have made yourself a part of it.

Next time you bubblegum about the price of your gas think about what you are doing.

 

[Phillyfan]

Honestly, making shooting too expensive is a great way to kill gun ownership. .22lr is, for some, the only thing they can afford to shoot. Personally, I loved to shoot .45 acp, but now that the price has doubled I can't justify it anymore. I am moving to 9mm, but even that is becoming difficult to find at a reasonable price. If you are looking to kill the sport, keep feeding the beast. It is exactly what they want.

 

[Phillyfan]

Once shooting becomes a sport that only the elite can afford, it will be easy to make a case for killing it off completely.

 

[Swedish K]

I heard about a scalper who had 57K of the Winchester .22 batch that was recalled. He contacted Winchester who told him they would refund his money. Apparently he demanded they replace it and they said they would refund his purchase price only - take the money or get nothing. Have to give Winchester props for taking the profit out of scalping for that guy. Now all his work and gas spent trying to hose shooters out of their hard earned coin was for nothing. Just hope he doesn't go ahead and sell the stuff to the unknowing possibly causing them injury.

 

[KalamaMark]

Spitpatch, great story, and well written as always, and I concur.

I've always looked at .22 ammo as a commodity to have with a deep reserve, like nails, chunks of lumber, firewood, and frozen meat. I don't consider myself a hoarder, nor a prepper, just a fella that likes to have some stuff on hand. Living in BFE exaggerates this trait.

Frankly, the businessman in me regrets not selling every black gun I had during the crunch. I could have made a killing. I also think we are on the tail end of the ammo crisis, and that same businessman is telling me I was a fool for keeping my ammo back stock, and I should be liquidating my rimfire stash while the market is still there.

I'm not immune to the influences of market forces... I traded seven NIB Butler Creek Hot Lips 10/22 magazines for a brand new Marlin .45-70 Guide Gun during the Clinton AWB era. My $40 pre ban investment turned into a real nice rifle. I also paid 30% too much for some Pmags during the beginning of the latest crunch. I know how this stuff works.

I hold not the sellers, nor the buyers of .22lr ammo at this time in disdain. I've paid $18 for a hamburger when hungry as a captive audience with no other options, and it was a fair deal for both of us... because I paid it. I could have went hungry. It was my choice. And if others would have chose to go hungry instead of paying that, the price would have reduced. But it didn't. And I ate.

That said, there ain't no friggin way I'm ever paying over $22 a brick for bulk pack .22, (Adjusted forward for inflation.) I refuse to take part. I'll wait. I'll load something else. I'll throw rocks. I'll fish. I'll learn to play guitar. I'll write a sonnet. I'll build a slingshot. I would encourage others to do the same, so the market returns to a reasonable balance.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Why don't you go sell your garbage on Armslist. . . . .

Response to the open letter:

First and foremost I would like to make argument for my actions. So, if you can bear the rage you feel, read and at least hear me out.

If you haven't noticed already post #1 is in reference to an add I placed yesterday in the classifieds.

I would like to people to understand that ironically and sadly it felt that I felt compelled to create a duplicate account because I have received death threats from people in the firearm community because of making .22LR sales of stocked inventory that I had. This was about a year ago, and sold for less than now. So, I guess my response to those that would propose "must have a minimum # of posts" to post classifieds for ammo, I can assure you I am very much within the community. I just felt that people don't need to be driving by my house and slashing my tires merely because I was lucky and stumbled on to .22 and chose to try and sell it here instead of 1/2 to 1/4 more elsewhere.

I would like to further the discussion by making a few notes to some of the comments above. Contrary to popular belief I don't "troll from store to store" to find .22lr. I simply stumbled upon it ironically it was at a Walmart. I watched as their entire inventory left the shelf (50 bricks) in less than 5 minutes. We all know there is a demand, and I'm not going to get in a pissing match debating supply and demand. But sincerely this was my thought process:

I see .22lr going on gunbroker and such for $75 a case all day everyday. Ammobot you can't even find 22 for less than $0.17 a round save the 3 seconds a day that it is available for less. I posted an add for $0.08 a round, under half of what it regularly sells for in some circles. Some of the arguments posted in the "Open Letter" above are in fact some of the same reasons why I chose to post an add here instead of trying to make half again my money on a different site.

You can be angry at me all you want but simply put, if I hadn't been at a Walmart at that moment someone that is WILLING TO PAY $75 a brick would be paying $75 a brick instead of the $46 in my add. You yourselves admit that "scalpers" always get there first and hoard with the soul intent of sticking it to you.

I will be the first to admit that it sucks finding .22lr right now I have no delusions of that. I hadn't seen any on the shelves for 6 months. Luckily, for me I have what I need. But there are those that don't. Me selling is the difference between shooting or not shooting for the next 6 months for those that value .22lr more. And always, like I said before, at a much less price than if they were to buy it elsewhere.

Ironically, if places like Walmart sold 22lr for true market value "scalpers" would not exist. You are holding on to a price that is 2 years old. I'm sure the price for .22 will go back down once supply catches up to demand, but like I said that is not now.

In closing I would like to say I do not wish any ill will on anyone here who may/ probably has a different opinion than mine. In fact I relish in free speech regardless of ones view. Just like free speech, I relish a free market. And as always, you don't have to buy.


Let the flaming start if you wish

Sincerely, 22lr


PS: thank you mods keeping my add clean. It was prompt and very "rule abiding." Thanks.

 

[PuddleMonkey]

What I want to know is how many of these d-bags running around store to store mid day bleeding all the ammo during restock times are actually employed? Nothing I like more than having to go to work every day so I can support some twit on welfare/unemployment just to have them turn around and try to gouge me when I want to buy ammo.

 

[ripcity]

This irritates me to read this, so moving on.....

 

[Darknight]

We should be having this discussion about gas. The ammo thing will work itself out. The price per brick you pay now will not last forever; eventually the wholesalers will raise their prices to the retailers and then the retailers to you.
For those of you that stocked up, how about getting off of your high horse and selling some at cost to some that don't have any and will have to pay scalper prices. Are you guys that have a huge piled up back stock any better than the scalpers? You don't need 10,000 rounds or even 5,000 rounds. Most of you probably shoot a brick at a time or less when you shoot. So at some point you all bought way more than what you would shoot and that is why you have so much saved up. So, sell everything except one brick and then go shoot it and then go buy another and then do it again. There will be enough for everyone that way. There is more than one solution to the problem; it's not all the scalpers.

 

[Swedish K]

I disagree - I don't have 10K sitting on the shelf - or even 5K at this point. Why should I part with what I do have to make you happy? I bought several bricks over the years back when a local shop ran weekly ads with at least 3 for decent prices on ammo to bring in more business. about once a month they would have bricks of 22 for $8 with a limit of 3 - since I was on a tight budget and liked to shoot quite a bit and almost weekly I would buy 2 or 3 every time it was on sale - I ended up with an extra brick on the shelf almost every month. When I realized I had more than 7K on the shelf and prices weren't going up I quit adding to the stack. I also got married and had other expenses and activities keeping me from shooting as much. Now I wish I would have kept adding that brick a month instead of using up all that I put away for tight budget times and I wouldn't be leaving the 22s at home most of the time now.
Guess I look at it like this - I have enough to shoot the 22s if I really want to but wouldn't sell it off to anyone unless I felt it was a truly worthy of depleting my stock. Something like a friend wanting to take his kids out to teach them the hobby or so their kid could shoot the new .22 they got for a birthday since they can't find any on the shelf.

 

[AMProducts]

Response to the open letter:

First and foremost I would like to make argument for my actions. So, if you can bear the rage you feel, read and at least hear me out.

I totally get that there's high demand and that demand is willing to pay some high prices. If you're looking for people to give you a pat on the back, don't sell it to us, go sell it to the shooters at the appleseed events who need it. After that, there's no need to apologize when you're engaged in business.

In fact, if the prices weren't so high, there wouldn't be so many new ammo manufacturers coming into the business. While many of these businesses are still on the drawing board, or are getting going ammo is going to be dirt-fing cheap in the next two years. I don't see any reason why we should fault the business cycle.

Now if you want to blame obama... that's another story...

 

[Darknight]

Swedish K, post: 1074526, member: 10993"]I disagree - I don't have 10K sitting on the shelf - or even 5K at this point. Why should I part with what I do have to make you happy?

You shouldn't, but if you're one of the guys on here that have plenty and like to get on here and moan about others picking the shelf clean and then charging inflated prices for it, then you should. Most places right now only allow a 3 box a day purchase of .22lr and some just one. So if you saw 20 bricks on the shelf, would you buy 3? Then a week later you see another 20 bricks on the shelf, would you buy 3 more? Most likely the answer is yes, so you would be just as much of a problem as the guy who is scalping them. The only difference is your not selling yours, but you're still hoarding it. Either way it causes a shortage.

I'm not sitting on a huge pile of .22lr, but like you I would give some to a friend or family member and I have.

I have personally bought .22lr for 9 cents a round from a scalper, because I didn't have a huge supply and I shot what I had, needed more and I didn't want to prairie dog every ammo store in the area. My time is worth more than that. I mostly shoot with my kids, so now I have the ammo to shoot with and more time to shoot. I recently started reloading, which will help with other calibers, but then again, powder for hand gun loads is like .22lr.

 

[orygun]

It's kind of funny... I've been keeping an eye out for 22lr just because it's not been on the shelves for a while, but I can't tell you the last time I shot one of my 22s! I think that my thought process is like many others, "If it's hard to find I should buy some when I see it", at reasonable prices of course. I don't "need" it, but I'm thinking I should buy it... ? I must be nutz.

Then yesterday, when I was cleaning out my range bag and putting ammo back in the cabinet I noticed I had more 22LR than I thought. Kind of like this thread, if you know what I mean.