No-Knock Warrants - My Greatest Fear as a Law-Abiding Gun Owner

[Will_White]

Bottom line: DO NOT LIVE WITH MURDERERS AND VIOLENT DRUG DEALERS. Is that too tough?

That doesn't help when they get the address wrong or someone swats you.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Let's say the police knocked as usual. They announced "Police!" "Search warrant!" Do you really think this mobster would unload his piece, crawl to the door and apologize for being a felon in possession of a gun?

Will bet he is linked to this - or another - homicide. Birds of a feather and all that.

I got to witness the perfect example of this very thing gone horribly wrong! Dude living across the street and down 3 houses from my Future wife's family was a known drug dealer with a violent temper and all that, Portland's finest show up to do an Knock and Talk, dude has cameras all over his property and is lying in wait with his SKS and a stack of loaded stripper clips! First two officers ( I knew both of them) go to his front door and knock, he answers with his trigger finger, killing both officers. Swat shows up and has themselves a stand off with him, he eventually gives up and gets taken down with a bullet in his left arse cheek! Two days later, he is found dangling from his hospital bed in a special secure room that was under guard, Cause of death was infection from his arse gun shot, not the towels tied together and wrapped around his neck and hung till dead! Point is, they should have never tried to pinch the dude at home, they should have set up a 24/7 surveil on his arse and nicked him when they had the chance, Same as every one of these no-knocks that they do! Worried about baddy flushing his stash, don't nick him at home, nick him out where there is the least risk to the public, or wait till the right opportunity, even if it takes a while!

 

[Cavedweller]

That doesn't help when they get the address wrong or someone swats you.

Do you lose a lot of sleep worrying about it happening to you?

 

[Z-PDX]

Just to hear some my stories...Sounds like that old joke ;

"Whats the difference between a War Story and a Fairy Tale ?
A Fairy Tale starts off with : Once upon a time...
And a War Story starts off with : No Sh!t , There I was....

If I ever get down that way....I'll let you know for sure.
Andy

serious offer. we're all very hospitable.

mine all start with, "there I was minding my own business as usual when all of a sudden..."

true as I remember in my own head anyway.

I think the statute of limitations has passed on most of mine anyway.

 

[Z-PDX]

I got to witness the perfect example of this very thing gone horribly wrong! Dude living across the street and down 3 houses from my Future wife's family was a known drug dealer with a violent temper and all that, Portland's finest show up to do an Knock and Talk, dude has cameras all over his property and is lying in wait with his SKS and a stack of loaded stripper clips! First two officers ( I knew both of them) go to his front door and knock, he answers with his trigger finger, killing both officers. Swat shows up and has themselves a stand off with him, he eventually gives up and gets taken down with a bullet in his left arse cheek! Two days later, he is found dangling from his hospital bed in a special secure room that was under guard, Cause of death was infection from his arse gun shot, not the towels tied together and wrapped around his neck and hung till dead! Point is, they should have never tried to pinch the dude at home, they should have set up a 24/7 surveil on his arse and nicked him when they had the chance, Same as every one of these no-knocks that they do! Worried about baddy flushing his stash, don't nick him at home, nick him out where there is the least risk to the public, or wait till the right opportunity, even if it takes a while!

Colleen Waibel. 1998. I hadn't thought of that name in years.

God rest her soul. And comfort her family. A major loss.

I was going through the academy when that all went down. I was too young and dumb to fully comprehend the effect that had on our policies and procedures. But that name and that incident was recounted as we briefed for years after.

Sadly, I'm not sure if many cops even know her name anymore. Thank you for the reminder...

 

[Alexx1401]

Both states have banned them.

WOW! I did not know they had but its about damn time. These are soooo seldom justified and so often end in tragedy. It has LONG been one of my great fears. That they would show up at my house by mistake. Kick in my door I am going to be armed. There is no good outcome at that point.

 

[po18guy]

Law and justice is not an exact science. The predictable and unpredictable human element means that nothing is certain. How many no-knocks have gone just fine? Let's not fall into gun control think here.

Sadly because of no pursuit policies, dangerous perps must now be taken indoors. Between house and car means a 10 second window max. And when will that happen. Mobsters do not sleep alone. Usually, there is more than one crew member hanging out. Often several - especially since these people knew about the homicide and the gun was probably there for anti-revenge.

No knock was instituted in the Miami Vice drug age, after cops lost their lives in such high risk maneuvers.

Anyone sitting in the armchair should take point at the next high-risk warrant service.

 

[JuglansRegia]

It's not the swat team at 3:00 am that strikes fear into me. It's those guys in black, with the blacks ski masks and black Suburbans at 3:00 am slipping a black hood over my head while
I'm asleep and taking me to who knows where…
[/QUITE]

They just want to talk to you about your cars extended warranty

 

[BrentN]

1. The warrant is an order of the court.
2. The police provide facts and evidence.
3. When the judge is satisfied, the judge signs the ORDER to arrest, which the police then carry out.
4. Cops don't just drive around looking for no-knock possibilities.
5. This was a homicide case. Do you expect Mr. Rogers asleep inside?
6. Afraid of the police? Hmmm. Why?
7. Home invasion robbers do no-knock daily. Not worried about that? Which is more likely?

Perspective!

Bottom line: DO NOT LIVE WITH MURDERERS AND VIOLENT DRUG DEALERS. Is that too tough?

Wow. Not sure how my post set you off like that. I don't live with muderers. How are the police providing facts and evidence while busting through my door? Mr. Rogers? Afraid of cops? Buddy, I am one of the few non-LEO types who regularly sports a hoody with the blue line. I was that kid in 1977 casing down PPB patrols to ask for Trail Blazer cards. I have never had anything but admiration and support for the blue and don't appreciate comment #6 to be honest. My "simple really" comment means just that; come through my door unannounced and people will get hurt and probably die. Because I think it is a bad idea, and I can not justify the "chance" that the wrong house is getting swatted, and I don't think it is prudent to put LEO's at risk when there are better solutions.

 

[po18guy]

Wow. Not sure how my post set you off like that. I don't live with muderers. How are the police providing facts and evidence while busting through my door? Mr. Rogers? Afraid of cops? Buddy, I am one of the few non-LEO types who regularly sports a hoody with the blue line. I was that kid in 1977 casing down PPB patrols to ask for Trail Blazer cards. I have never had anything but admiration and support for the blue and don't appreciate comment #6 to be honest. My "simple really" comment means just that; come through my door unannounced and people will get hurt and probably die. Because I think it is a bad idea, and I can not justify the "chance" that the wrong house is getting swatted, and I don't think it is prudent to put LEO's at risk when there are better solutions.

Just advice. Why on earth would someone live in constant fear of jack-booted thugs storming their door? Does that not indicate that their life choices need some fine tuning? Or...

 

[WillametteWill]

Anyone sitting in the armchair should take point at the next high-risk warrant service.

Like so much in law enforcement, there are no perfect answers. It's not an engineering problem that you can solve with math. It's whack a mole in that if you do this, or don't do that, then this unintended consequence happens. Your points are on target.

I agree, there are enormous risks with no knocks. Does that mean knocking on the door of a homicide suspect and saying, "Kind sir, please acquiesce to our handcuffs," is safer? No. Does letting him get in a vehicle where he is now mobile safer? No. Is trying to catch him in a transitional space between the house and car where you only have a few seconds to identify innocents in the area and evaluate who is with him better? No.

They all suck. You try to find the one that sucks less and in your best judgement has the least likelihood of negative consequences to innocents, officers and yes, even suspects. Sometimes that might be a no knock. I agree that they must be used exceedingly sparingly and with multiple checks and balances internally and from the courts. Consequences should be severe for officers playing fast and loose with "facts" when requesting a warrant.

 

[GrayGoose]

I'm glad no innocent dogs got shot this time.

 

[albin25]

Folks would probably be smarter to fear a mountain lion jumping through their window…
…. Even then, who "sleeps" with a gun IN THEIR HAND ?

 

[RVTECH]

Why on earth would someone live in constant fear of jack-booted thugs storming their door?

Oh, just a guess but maybe because they ALSO live in fear of SHTF, Cascadia earthquakes, roving gangs of bad nasties, everything black and semi auto being banned , and because 'they will not comply', etc. and just about everything else.

 

[deadeye]

Folks would probably be smarter to fear a mountain lion jumping through their window…
…. Even then, who "sleeps" with a gun IN THEIR HAND ?

I think @Stomper does............This is my rifle this is my gun...........

Oh, just a guess but maybe because they ALSO live in fear of SHTF, Cascadia earthquakes, roving gangs of bad nasties, everything black and semi auto being banned , and because 'they will not comply', etc. and just about everything else.

When in fact they should really be in fear of the stroke or heart attack that is coming from living that way........

 

[nammac]

…. Even then, who "sleeps" with a gun IN THEIR HAND ?

What? You mean it's not normal to sleep with a gun in my hand??? Oh boy….

 

[Certaindeaf]

Didn't really read the whole thread but back in the 70's there were a lot of no-knock issues. I think it was finally blamed on Ethyl or somesuch nonsense.. the gall of the skank.

 

[BrentN]

Just advice. Why on earth would someone live in constant fear of jack-booted thugs storming their door? Does that not indicate that their life choices need some fine tuning? Or...

What in the flying F are you going off about? Constant fear of jack-booted thugs? Life choices? I fear very little, from kitted out swatters, to methed out cat robbers, to decent sized black bears that hang out with hundreds of yards of my house. Get a grip and have a decent conversation already. For future reference, keep your advice to yourself, I have done a decent job at "life choices".

 

[Burpboxhero]

He didn't even get a chance, was still trying to wake up. Was the gun even loaded? Looked like there was a mag on the couch, near his gun on that last image before he was shot. Sucks all the way around. Finger off trigger, barrel down….

 

[RVTECH]

For future reference, keep your advice to yourself,

He, in effect, did keep his advice to himself - He NEVER mentioned you, or anyone else by name so why did you take it so personally?

This is not unlike a guilty person who jumps to their own defense before they are accused of something.