No-Knock Warrants - My Greatest Fear as a Law-Abiding Gun Owner

[Andy54Hawken]

Anyone leaving the house (me included) in a body bag is not my idea of a "memorable experience."

Anyone could be swatted for any reason, you and I included. It's really not hard to find someone's address.

As I said in my post that you quoted...
"Speaking for myself..."

Obviously you are different....in many ways I have no doubt.
Andy

 

[deadeye]

Well if you're on the couch just flip the coffee table over and throw a lil surprise (inert of course), they'll go right back out the door. Give ya a lil more time to identify who and why they came in.............just kiddin

 

[Z-PDX]

That is just about how I got taken to S.E.R.E School....good school...but not for the faint of heart.
Andy

I had to look up your AO, and it's waaaay out of where I ever get to.

I don't suppose you ever get out to Central Oregon. But if you do, please look me up.

I'd buy you dinner, drinks, or whatever just to hear some of your stories. and compare notes.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I had to look up your AO, and it's waaaay out of where I ever get to.

I don't suppose you ever get out to Central Oregon. But if you do, please look me up.

I'd buy you dinner, drinks, or whatever just to hear some of your stories. and compare notes.

Just to hear some my stories...Sounds like that old joke ;

"Whats the difference between a War Story and a Fairy Tale ?
A Fairy Tale starts off with : Once upon a time...
And a War Story starts off with : No Sh!t , There I was....

If I ever get down that way....I'll let you know for sure.
Andy

 

[Cavedweller]

I don't know why any law abiding gun owner should live in fear of this sort of thing. The statistical probability of being the victim of this kind of event is so low that when it does occur it is sensational news (don't know the details - article is behind pay wall). There are many more probable threats to one's safety and security than being the innocent victim of this type of event.

 

[ma96782]

Gotta have tactics. A few months ago, a guy was having a mental health crisis and a social worker needed help. I go out there and figure out the dude was definitely having an event, but wasn't a threat. I can't do anything other than beg that he let me take him to the hospital.

Then, I offered him ice cream and all was well. He got in the car and we went and got a cone. He looked hungry, so I got him a burger too. I took him to the hospital to get the help he needed.

When I opened the door, he laughed at me and said he wasn't getting no mental evaluation and he knew I couldn't make him. I was out $10. He even left the trash on the seat.

It wasn't ME.


Aloha, Mark

 

[No_Regerts]

View attachment 1124409
It wasn't ME.


Aloha, Mark

I hope he's lactose intolerant.

 

[salmon creek gary]

It is all a matter of having the proper signage on your entrance doors. For example:

- NOT ACCEPTING NO-KNOCK WARRANTS -

ONLY LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS LIVE HERE, SO YOU MUST CERTAINLY HAVE THE WRONG ADDRESS

If you wish to discuss a particularly urgent matter, please telephone first: (xxx) xxx-xxxx
Otherwise, please leave your business card; we will call you during office hours

Thank you for your kind consideration; please depart quietly
​

(I think polite wording like that ought to obviate all worry about having your sleep interrupted, don't you?)

 

[po18guy]

No need to be a paranoiac! Just don't live with murderers. Seems easy enough.

Knock or no knock, this is what the officer saw. A judge signed the homicide/ search warrant. The police "insisted" on no-knock. Gee, what did they fear? Buncha' sissies!

So, what if the PD told this paragon of virtue that they were coming in after knocking? Being a law-abiding man of the cloth (blanket), I'm certain he would immediately submit to lawful authority.

 

[gmerkt]

Mostly we set up surveillance and try to pinch someone once they left the house.

What I read in the newspaper lately, they simply surround the place and wait them out. Sometimes for days. It seems frustrating but probably is lower risk for all concerned. Trade time for going in guns blazing.

I suppose there are places where a no-knock warrant might be justified, based on population density, type of dwelling, etc. My impression is that there is likely as much inherent danger in a no-knock warrant as an announced arrival type.

I don't live in fear of the law coming to my place with any kind of warrant. I'm law-abiding, I don't keep contraband of any type. BUT: I'm in trouble if anyone comes and kicks the door in at night. I'm dead asleep, need eyeglasses, my hearing aids are out, general old age befuddlement, etc. I'm at significant disadvantage. I've got a nice baseball bat next to the bed, that might help. Where people live makes a very big difference.

 

[Koda]

I don't know why any law abiding gun owner should live in fear of this sort of thing. The statistical probability of being the victim of this kind of event is so low that when it does occur it is sensational news (don't know the details - article is behind pay wall). There are many more probable threats to one's safety and security than being the innocent victim of this type of event.

My take is its not about the statistics its about the consequences. Just like the "need" to carry or own guns. There's been too many mistakes and risk of swatting to justify no knock warrants and there are safer alternatives.

 

[po18guy]

Kick my door in unannounced? Multiple people not going home to their families. Simple really.

1. The warrant is an order of the court.
2. The police provide facts and evidence.
3. When the judge is satisfied, the judge signs the ORDER to arrest, which the police then carry out.
4. Cops don't just drive around looking for no-knock possibilities.
5. This was a homicide case. Do you expect Mr. Rogers asleep inside?
6. Afraid of the police? Hmmm. Why?
7. Home invasion robbers do no-knock daily. Not worried about that? Which is more likely?

Perspective!

Bottom line: DO NOT LIVE WITH MURDERERS AND VIOLENT DRUG DEALERS. Is that too tough?

 

[Cavedweller]

My take is its not about the statistics its about the consequences. Just like the "need" to carry or own guns. There's been too many mistakes and risk of swatting to justify no knock warrants and there are safer alternatives.

Agree with you 100% There are better alternatives. I am not suggesting no knock warrants are OK. I'm just saying there's no need for such a thing to be a law abiding gun owner's "greatest fear." The fear sounds a bit exaggerated to me.

 

[Koda]

Agree with you 100% There are better alternatives. I am not suggesting no knock warrants are OK. I'm just saying there's no need for such a thing to be a law abiding gun owner's "greatest fear." The fear sounds a bit exaggerated to me.

yes, 100% agree its pretty much at the bottom of the list of things to worry about.

 

[Mono1]

I am thinking @po18guy needs to weigh in on this...

 

[po18guy]

Let's say the police knocked as usual. They announced "Police!" "Search warrant!" Do you really think this mobster would unload his piece, crawl to the door and apologize for being a felon in possession of a gun?

Will bet he is linked to this - or another - homicide. Birds of a feather and all that.

 

[Mono1]

I am thinking @po18guy needs to weigh in on this...

Oops too late.

 

[po18guy]

Gotta have tactics. A few months ago, a guy was having a mental health crisis and a social worker needed help. I go out there and figure out the dude was definitely having an event, but wasn't a threat. I can't do anything other than beg that he let me take him to the hospital.

Then, I offered him ice cream and all was well. He got in the car and we went and got a cone. He looked hungry, so I got him a burger too. I took him to the hospital to get the help he needed.

When I opened the door, he laughed at me and said he wasn't getting no mental evaluation and he knew I couldn't make him. I was out $10. He even left the trash on the seat.

NEVER front your burgers!

 

[Knobgoblin]

Personal opinion. Not my professional field at all. This was a "bad shoot". However, sleeping on a couch wrapped up in a blanket, with a handgun in easy reach? Seems like some odd behavior, unless you're in the criminal mindset.

 

[po18guy]

Well, let's examine.
1. No knock does not mean kick the door in. Police had a key. Entry was silent.
2. Once inside, they announce - for their own safety and in accord with court protocol.
3. After announcing and moving through the apartment checking for hazards, they saw a figure on a couch beneath a blanket.
4. Officer kicked the couch and made a demand.
5. Dude comes out with FN5.7 (body armor) in hand.
6. They had 0.90 seconds to make a decision.
7. They were looking for three suspects in a target-rich environment.
8. Wait until Emir's BGC comes through.
9. Trial by internet is a byotch.