No guns if you're under 21?

[Foamcups]

This isn't about revolution,

Not sayin it is.

 

[Wolf256]

If you can get drafted and can potentially die for this country at say 18 years of age......why do the liberals object to gun ownership at that age?

Aloha, Mark

PS....my son is on active duty in AZ with the USMC. He's taking a CCW class. I questioned him about his age being a factor (he is 20 years old). He said that "active duty military" can get a waiver to CCW in AZ.

No permit required if you're a resident to CC either. AZ is an open carry state too. A lot of people apply for the non-resident AZ CCW because of the reciprocity with so many states. We have family there, so have looked into it.

 

[ma96782]

I agree with you. But let me ask you a question.

In the event of an armed revolution of some kind, where youre gonna need your weapons to protect yourself from the tyranny of a corrupt government...do you think an AR15 is going to help against the might of the American military?

I'm almost 60 years old......and YES I'd fight. With my AR15 or whatever else I have left to fight with. As for the "Might of the American Military"......

I guess you're saying that the American Military is just as good as NAZIs. "Just Following Orders. Sir." Yes, I believe that some will follow orders no matter the debate about the Constitution.

THAT, in itself, solidifies the scenario where you had asked?

"And you think that's even remotely possible in this country?"

So, the Govt passes a law.....and a segment of the US Military will go out there to enforce it. So, YES. IMHO, it could happen here.

But, I hope that some members of the US MIlitary will join me/us in fighting. Because they might remember...........

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

You know......

An unjust law.....you still have to enforce it. You may protest that law. But, you'll need to go through "the proper channels." If you choose to not follow that law.....you do so, at your peril.

As for illegal laws.....well, you don't have to follow them.

The US Constitution is the basis of all laws in the US. Every law, must be Constitutional. So, a LAW in violation of the 2nd A of the US Constitution is by nature.....an illegal law. The debate ends (maybe the fighting starts) when YOU decide, that you're not going to take it anymore.

Many years ago, the people of this nation started a revolution. The reasons for that revolution were stated in this document.........



I'm NOT saying that I'm gonna lead, participate in or do something, at this point. But, those brave men who signed that document long ago.....knew that they were in fact committing TREASON against the crown.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Foamcups]

I'm almost 60 years old......and YES I'd fight. With my AR15 or whatever else I have left to fight with. As for the "Might of the American Military"......

I guess you're saying that the American Military is just as good as NAZIs. "Just Following Orders. Sir." Yes, I believe that some will follow orders no matter the debate about the Constitution.

THAT, in itself, solidifies the scenario where you had asked?

"And you think that's even remotely possible in this country?"

So, the Govt passes a law.....and a segment of the US Military will go out there to enforce it. So, YES. IMHO, it could happen here.

But, I hope that some soldiers will join me/us in fighting. Because they might remember...........

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

You know......

An unjust law.....you still have to enforce it. You may protest that law. But, you'll need to go through "the proper channels." If you choose to not follow that law.....you do so, at your peril.

As for illegal laws.....well, you don't have to follow them.

The US Constitution is the basis of all laws in the US. Every law, must be Constitutional. So, a LAW in violation of the 2nd A of the US Constitution is by nature.....an illegal law. The debate ends (maybe the fighting starts) when YOU decide, that you're not going to take it anymore.

Many years ago, the people of this nation started a revolution. The reasons for that revolution were stated in this document.........

View attachment 433021

I'm NOT saying that I'm gonna lead, participate in or do something, at this point. But, those brave men who signed that document long ago.....knew that they were in fact committing TREASON.

Aloha, Mark

Brilliant starting talking point to rile up the rest of the base. "Well, THIS GUY MUST THINK THE TROOPS IS NAZIS!!!" No, that's not what I said. Excellent try though.

Once again, for the record, to clear any of the bogus claims that have been thrown at me here. Lets finalize all of this.

- I don't think the United States Military (any branch) are Nazis.

- I DONT THINK ar15s should be banned.

- I am not a Socialist, Communist, Nazi, Polygamist, ISIS Agent, plant for CIA/FBI/LDS.

Ok, so we have that out of the way.

For the record...SHOULD any of that occur, I would be right by you fighting. With my AR15. Or my AK47. Or my VEPR12. Or any of the numerous firearms I legally own and engage with. I am not a proponent of martial law, corrupt government, or any removal of Constitutional Rights or any other rights.

So, my question was "Do you think your AR15 will do anything against the might of the American Military?" And after you suggested that I believed the Armed Forces of this country are Nazis, I will respond with the answer that we all know is true: No, they would not. It wouldn't matter if you had an AR15 or a rocket launcher, if the powers that control this nation believed and instituted laws that removed possession of any firearms from the populace, and the populace revolted, it would be crushed.

As far as law is concerned....IF the Second Amendment were to be in any way changed, that would be THE LAW. It would be LEGAL. Therefore your argument states it would have to be FOLLOWED by LAW ABIDING citizens.

And yes, brave men have fought and died for this country in the millions. They should be honored in any way we have at our disposal. But it would be DISHONORABLE to those men if, as stated above, the Second Amendment was legally changed, AND YOU FAILED TO ABIDE BY IT. Wouldn't it? What then?

But what do I know, Ive been told I think theyre all Nazis anyway, right?

 

[ma96782]

You'll note: that I never said, that you said....

"Well, THIS GUY MUST THINK THE TROOPS IS NAZIS!!!"

then add.....

"And after you suggested that I believed the Armed Forces of this country are Nazis,..."

and add.....

"But what do I know, Ive been told I think theyre all Nazis anyway, right?"

WRONG. Because, what I did say was.......

"I guess you're saying that the American Military is just as good as NAZIs. "Just Following Orders. Sir." Yes, I believe that some will follow orders no matter the debate about the Constitution."

Anyway, think about, "How to boil a frog."

As for my AR15.....

Can it kill? If so.....maybe, I'll use it to good effect. Maybe, I'll use it as a starting basis to take other weapons from the dead. Can this be done? Sure. Why else does the Govt think that I'm so dangerous?

As LIBERALS like to say.....
Everyone who owns a firearm is a potential killer.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Foamcups]

Nah, I think you need to retract your statement and apologize for "guessing I say the Military is just as good as Nazis". But I won't hold it against you if you don't.

And sure your AR can kill. But my question still stands unanswered. Could an armed militia in this country withstand the combined military force of the United States?

Because the answer is no, it can't.

Also, you end every statement with Aloha. Do you live in Hawaii? Just curious. Went their last year and had a lot of fun.

Ninja edit: says you're in the Couve. My bad.

 

[Colts4me]

Yall should recognize when a fellow is leading you into saying things that will bite you on the but later. Fellow comes in with no investment in the group and stirs the pot toward anarchy isn't doing this site any good. Best to let them prove they are good than to let them hang you with post you can never erase and it never goes away. Be careful, the net is full of many kinds of characters, me included.

 

[Dornai]

Nah, I think you need to retract your statement and apologize for "guessing I say the Military is just as good as Nazis". But I won't hold it against you if you don't.

And sure your AR can kill. But my question still stands unanswered. Could an armed militia in this country withstand the combined military force of the United States?

Because the answer is no, it can't.

Also, you end every statement with Aloha. Do you live in Hawaii? Just curious. Went their last year and had a lot of fun.

Ninja edit: says you're in the Couve. My bad.

Yeah, an armed militia in this country could withstand the combined might of the U.S. armed forces. Speaking as a veteran here.

I can tell you first off that the majority of the U.S. armed forces would not engage in a conflict against the American people.

Secondly, modern military's are notoriously bad at engaging armed insurgencies. Look at the Vietnam War and any conflict in the Middle East for reference. Hell, it's how America won her independence from Great Britain - an armed insurgency. Modern military's are extremely reliant on supplies. You target their supply lines, you sow terror and discord through the ranks by assassinating high value targets and planting improvised explosive devices at rallies, speeches, et cetera.

Now if you're talking about a "man on man", all out war in the streets... of course not. But that's not how you fight against professional military forces as a civilian.

 

[Foamcups]

Yall should recognize when a fellow is leading you into saying things that will bite you on the but later. Fellow comes in with no investment in the group and stirs the pot toward anarchy isn't doing this site any good. Best to let them prove they are good than to let them hang you with post you can never erase and it never goes away. Be careful, the net is full of many kinds of characters, me included.

Yes, that pesky right to Freedom of Speech must really get you verklempt. I'm very sorry if this isn't an echo chamber for you, Colts. But I'm sure you can find one somewhere when all people talk about is us fellows with no investment.

 

[ma96782]

Foamcups,

I apologize for your hurt feelings. Over my post, about what I was guessing.....that you were trying to say and/or think.

That being said....

As for the rest of your questions......maybe one day, we could sit down over a cup and talk about it. Typing over the internet loses so much.

Aloha, Mark

 

[DB is Here]

Wow, this thread has covered a myriad of topics...Whats for dinner?

 

[Foamcups]

ma97682,

I accept your apology for your groundless and erroneous guess.

That being said...

Maybe one day we could. Ever come to the Hillsboro area? I go to Vancouver rarely (in laws, yuck.) but I'd absolutely buy you a coffee and have a chat.

 

[jordanvraptor]

How about no guns unless a hunters safety course is completed.

How about no voting until you complete a civics class, bachelor's degree in political science, maybe even add a foreign language requirement?

 

[jordanvraptor]

Again, times change. And unfortunately society changes as well. Shoot, today you even have to be 21 to buy tobacco in Oregon. Nobody seemed to care that much about it. So instead of banning guns, why not make the age for handgun and rifle purchases 21? At least give the "kid" still in high school a chance to mature a little bit?

Given that I'm 50, I couldn't care a less, but then at least be consistent and don't let them vote either...

 

[DuneHopper]

This isn't about revolution,

First Rule of a revelation is.......... we don't talk about a revolution.

 

[DuneHopper]

Wow, this thread has covered a myriad of topics...Whats for dinner?

 

[ma96782]

How about no voting until you complete a civics class, bachelor's degree in political science, maybe even add a foreign language requirement?

IIRC.....the US Supreme Court has ruled, that measures (like you've mentioned) and any other such efforts (like a poll tax)....would be Un-Constitutional.

OK....you were kidding.

LOL.....

Some elected politicians.....don't even know the difference between a full auto firearm and a semi auto firearm. Yet, they can go on TV and spout their wisdom. And, they have the potential to vote on these matters.

Aloha, Mark

 

[DuneHopper]

 

[jordanvraptor]

IIRC.....the US Supreme Court has ruled, that measures (like you've mentioned) and any other such efforts (like a poll tax)....would be Un-Constitutional.

OK....you were kidding.

LOL.....

Some elected politicians.....don't even know the difference between a full auto firearm and a semi auto firearm. Yet, they can go on TV and spout their wisdom. And, they have the potential to vote on these matters.

Aloha, Mark

I agree, I'm just trying to make the point that the 2nd Amendment is either a constitutional right, or it isn't. If you pose age restrictions on guns then be consistent and restrict other rights the same way.

 

[jordanvraptor]

I don't think the military are Nazis, but the Coast Guard thinks they are Vikings...