No guns if you're under 21?

[etrain16]

I'm going to throw out a few more thoughts of my own again:

• Before we even talk about passing more laws, everyone needs to calm down. Legislating when emotions are highest lead to bad decisions and unintended consequences. In legislation, cooler heads must prevail. So, now is not the time to legislate, but it is time to talk about what solutions might be best.
• Next, before passing any new law affecting gun owners, there needs to be concrete evidence that any new proposed law will actually have a positive impact on the events we're trying to prevent. What I see is an awful lot of speculation, a lot of panic-laden attempts to "do something", much of which has no basis in any real fact or evidence that they can work. Bump stock ban? Why? We've had a grand total of 1 shooting with bump stocks - but they've been around for a number of years and until Las Vegas, most people outside the gun community had even heard of them. Ban them? Why? What's the evidence?
• In that vein, no new laws should be proposed or passed until we have fully and completely enforced the laws already on the books. How can anyone justify new laws when the government, who will be tasked with enforcing those new laws, can't enforce the laws already in place? The FBI has failed, numerous times, to stop people from buying guns that shouldn't be able to - and they were purchased through an FFL - not at some parking lot or through some gun show "loophole". How the hell can we ask for more laws before the government shows, through active and proper enforcement, that they can actually fulfill their requirement to do their jobs?
• As for raising the age, I don't see how that helps. I posted in another thread that of the mass shooters, under 21 since 1982, a grand total of 2 have purchased their guns legally through an FFL - that includes the shooter last week. The remaining 10 shooters stole their guns. So now we need to raise the age to buy a gun? Why? Show me evidence this is an actual problem before we add yet another rule/restriction/law to the books.

There needs to be a call for calm and rational thinking about this. There are some good proposals out there that don't involve new laws or restrictions - and they are being virtually ignored due to the screaming for new gun laws. I'm tired of gun owners being target of restrictions and laws when this stuff happens - especially when no one can actually provide evidence the new laws will save anyone. It's BS and just an opportunity for anti-gun folks to come after us.

Let's get security in the schools - good people with guns between the kids and the bad people with guns. Lock the schools down. Metal detectors. Those things alone will stop more mass shootings than any new gun law.

Ask yourself this, honestly - how many mass shootings have happened at locations with armed security and/or metal detectors? Seriously, how many? Then ask yourself this - how many mass shootings have happened in "gun free zones"? If you're honest, you already know the answer because we have plenty of historical data to back it up. Gun free zones are a danger to those in them, period. Gun free zones need to go away. People need to be allowed to carry if they choose. And schools need to be actively protected from threats. We already know this works, but we're refusing to do it - why?

I won't accept any proposal for any new law if people can't provide concrete evidence that it will actually help reduce these events. Until then, I'm done with 'common sense' gun laws.

 

[Doublesunder]

While I believe it a good idea for young men and women to serve their country in some form, it shouldn't be a requirement on firearm ownership.

The thought of any government control concerning the 2nd is not thought out and emotional.
The purpose is to protect the citizens from government tyranny. This is a protection that was put in place to protect us by the founding fathers.

The thought that there will be some kind of Utopia of Snowflakes when firearms are banned and regulated is ridiculous.

 

[Boboclown]

Next, before passing any new law affecting gun owners, there needs to be concrete evidence that any new proposed law will actually have a positive impact on the events we're trying to prevent.

Impossible. Every time they propose new laws its a feelings argument without any concrete evidence. The only evidence they can use is other countries where cultures are different, never had many guns to begin with, did not have a lot of mass shootings to begin with, etc. In addition to that, they always use the recent mass shootings as evidence of us needing more laws, when it was not this bad even before the assault weapons ban (it was during the time period of this ban that Columbine happened, don't forget this folks).

That aside:
So what causes it to become worse now than before? Can't claim its the lack of gun laws, the AR15 was sold to the public long before the assault weapons ban even existed, as were the so called "high capacity" magazines. So why is it all of the sudden getting worse? If back then there were now laws such as the ones they propose, and rifles like the AR15 were available (as were AKs mind you, and cheaper than ARs, funny they switched), but it was not like it is these days, then surely it isn't the lack of laws.

 

[etrain16]

Impossible. Every time they propose new laws its a feelings argument without any concrete evidence. The only evidence they can use is other countries where cultures are different, never had many guns to begin with, did not have a lot of mass shootings to begin with, etc. In addition to that, they always use the recent mass shootings as evidence of us needing more laws, when it was not this bad even before the assault weapons ban (it was during the time period of this ban that Columbine happened, don't forget this folks).

That aside:
So what causes it to become worse now than before? Can't claim its the lack of gun laws, the AR15 was sold to the public long before the assault weapons ban even existed, as were the so called "high capacity" magazines. So why is it all of the sudden getting worse? If back then there were now laws such as the ones they propose, and rifles like the AR15 were available (as were AKs mind you, and cheaper than ARs, funny they switched), but it was not like it is these days, then surely it isn't the lack of laws.

Exactly why I said what I did. These laws are emotional knee-jerk reactions by people that don't know what to do, in large part don't know what they're talking about and are unwilling to secure the schools. They think they can stop evil people from being evil. And so we must continue to show them, over and over and over again - some will actually get it - that criminals don't follow laws. Heck, all you have to do is look at how long murder has been illegal - basically since the beginning of time - strange that doesn't stop people from murdering other people. Yet those same people will argue that restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens will somehow magically overcome evil and make them good. Banning guns and features/accessories won't stop evil people from being evil - won't even slow them down - they'll simply steal them or get them on the black market - because evil people don't follow laws - any of them. The anti's know that - which is why every new gun law is a step toward and outright ban. They know full well these laws are worthless so long as guns are still out there. They lie to our faces and say "no one is coming for your guns" - well, thanks to folks like Hillary and others that have let it slip out - we know that's exactly what they want. Hillary wants Australia type gun laws - that's confiscation and bans - and she is the only one on her side with the balls to actually be honest about their ultimate goal.

 

[Juany]

Exactly why I said what I did. These laws are emotional knee-jerk reactions by people that don't know what to do, in large part don't know what they're talking about and are unwilling to secure the schools. They think they can stop evil people from being evil. And so we must continue to show them, over and over and over again - some will actually get it - that criminals don't follow laws. Heck, all you have to do is look at how long murder has been illegal - basically since the beginning of time - strange that doesn't stop people from murdering other people. Yet those same people will argue that restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens will somehow magically overcome evil and make them good. Banning guns and features/accessories won't stop evil people from being evil - won't even slow them down - they'll simply steal them or get them on the black market - because evil people don't follow laws - any of them. The anti's know that - which is why every new gun law is a step toward and outright ban. They know full well these laws are worthless so long as guns are still out there. They lie to our faces and say "no one is coming for your guns" - well, thanks to folks like Hillary and others that have let it slip out - we know that's exactly what they want. Hillary wants Australia type gun laws - that's confiscation and bans - and she is the only one on her side with the balls to actually be honest about their ultimate goal.

These are no longer "knee jerk emotional reactions" any more. We have ample evidence that our current state of affairs (mass shootings) is unacceptable. Should we study it more? Discuss it more? Wait for the next 20 or so children to get slaughtered? I'm all for metal detectors and a police presence at schools. I'm also for making sure guns don't get into the hands of mentally ill people. If that means I have to wait 3 days, be 26, pass a test, etc. so be it.

 

[Colts4me]

Just opinion but there is a gun control law I would stand 100% behind. The law would read that anyone receiving psycho drugs that alter their behavior isn't allowed within 1000 feet of a gun. Zolof or Prozac or Ritalin means no gun, it's like driving under the influence. Plus when you are put on said drugs you will receive psychological help. If you cant get through life without a psycho drug in your system then you don't need a gun.

 

[etrain16]

These are no longer "knee jerk emotional reactions" any more. We have ample evidence that our current state of affairs (mass shootings) is unacceptable. Should we study it more? Discuss it more? Wait for the next 20 or so children to get slaughtered? I'm all for metal detectors and a police presence at schools. I'm also for making sure guns don't get into the hands of mentally ill people. If that means I have to wait 3 days, be 26, pass a test, etc. so be it.

Prove to me those kinds of suggestions will work. The proof for secured locations not being targets of mass shooters is already out there - mass shooters go for unprotected locations (gun free zones) over and over and over again. Prove to me that adding another law, which won't be enforced will actually stop any of this.

Did you read my post? Did you see where I stated only 2 mass shooters under 21 since 1982 bought their guns legally - only 2. Show me where that's a public emergency. All the rest violated EXISTING LAWS and got their guns anyway. And yes, running to congress to demand more restrictions/laws that are already failing to work is just what I said - an emotional, knee-jerk reaction.

And here's another piece of information - we won't get real solutions in place until both sides can come to some agreements. But guess what happens when one side's solution is always to attack the rights of the other side? Simple psychology - attack a person's core beliefs/values, you put them on the defensive. I don't get why the anti's can't figure this out. The solutions I, and others have offered don't attack anyone's rights, yet the anti's always attack us. I'm tired of being attacked and I will, every time, go on the defensive when it happens. Get your mind on other solutions, solutions we know will work and stop encouraging more restrictions on the law-abiding citizens of this country.

 

[Boboclown]

These are no longer "knee jerk emotional reactions" any more. We have ample evidence that our current state of affairs (mass shootings) is unacceptable. Should we study it more? Discuss it more? Wait for the next 20 or so children to get slaughtered? I'm all for metal detectors and a police presence at schools. I'm also for making sure guns don't get into the hands of mentally ill people. If that means I have to wait 3 days, be 26, pass a test, etc. so be it.

32 were killed and 17 were injured by a shooter in Virginia tech, no rifles used. He was over 21. What law would have stopped him from getting them?

Zolof or Prozac or Ritalin means no gun, it's like driving under the influence.

I took ritalin for a few months as a kid (maybe 8 or 9). So far I have no intentions to cause harm. I'm also 25 (26 this year), if it was going to affect me it would have done so already.

 

[Juany]

Prove to me those kinds of suggestions will work. The proof for secured locations not being targets of mass shooters is already out there - mass shooters go for unprotected locations (gun free zones) over and over and over again. Prove to me that adding another law, which won't be enforced will actually stop any of this.

Did you read my post? Did you see where I stated only 2 mass shooters under 21 since 1982 bought their guns legally - only 2. Show me where that's a public emergency. All the rest violated EXISTING LAWS and got their guns anyway. And yes, running to congress to demand more restrictions/laws that are already failing to work is just what I said - an emotional, knee-jerk reaction.

And here's another piece of information - we won't get real solutions in place until both sides can come to some agreements. But guess what happens when one side's solution is always to attack the rights of the other side? Simple psychology - attack a person's core beliefs/values, you put them on the defensive. I don't get why the anti's can't figure this out. The solutions I, and others have offered don't attack anyone's rights, yet the anti's always attack us. I'm tired of being attacked and I will, every time, go on the defensive when it happens. Get your mind on other solutions, solutions we know will work and stop encouraging more restrictions on the law-abiding citizens of this country.[/QUOTE
If this current trend continues the anti gun groups will have all they need to pass highly restrictive gun laws. The population won't tolerate the current level of gun violence. Figure out ways to compromise or have all your rights taken away. Just my $.02.

 

[Juany]

32 were killed and 17 were injured by a shooter in Virginia tech, no rifles used. He was over 21. What law would have stopped him from getting them?

I took ritalin for a few months as a kid (maybe 8 or 9). So far I have no intentions to cause harm. I'm also 25 (26 this year), if it was going to affect me it would have done so already.

Mandatory metal detectors in schools?

 

[Caveman Jim]

You forgot all them edumacated folk an them Wes Coste Eleets too.

Also, that's the first time ive heard someone blame public schools for school shootings. That's pretty out there, hoss.

Not blamimg it on shootings but being babied in the public school system (safe spaces) is where the liberal thinking comes from that guns are the problem. People can't deal with technology (ruled by their phones).
Not that far out there if you really think about it hoss.

 

[etrain16]

You still haven't answered the challenge I made in my post above - prove to me that more laws are needed, especially when we know the laws on the books aren't being adequately enforced. Everyone tells us that gun owners need to compromise - guess what, they already have, many times - just look at all the laws already on the books. I'll say it over and over again - no more laws are needed. Get the damn government to enforce the laws that are already there. They have failed us, numerous times, by failing to enforce current laws - yet your answer is more laws. Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds?

 

[Boboclown]

Its not like I already mentioned they fail to go through the process of court ordering a person to go to a mental institution to be checked out or anything.

Its also not like I already mentioned that new laws won't do anything if current laws are not an effective deterrent, let alone being enforced. Again what do I know? Not like I ever have to study this sort of them, ever.

 

[Colts4me]

"2016 FBI reports 15,070 homicides of which 7,105 were by hand gun, 262 by shotgun, 1,604 by cutting instruments, 3,263 by firearms – type unknown, 1,806 by other weapons, 656 by hands, fists, and pushing and 374 by rifle. "

Once they ban the least used firearm where will the next ban be?

 

[Boboclown]

Once they ban the least used firearm where will the next ban be?

Gosh, don't you have common sense? They'll finally go after those shoulder things that go up!

 

[Colts4me]

32 were killed and 17 were injured by a shooter in Virginia tech, no rifles used. He was over 21. What law would have stopped him from getting them?

I took ritalin for a few months as a kid (maybe 8 or 9). So far I have no intentions to cause harm. I'm also 25 (26 this year), if it was going to affect me it would have done so already.

Since the majority of killers have been on one of the psycho drugs it only makes sense to keep them away from guns. They should have tracker bracelets and nobody in their home should have guns lest they kill them for their guns to commit larger murders. It's going after the offender and thats the way to solve crimes.

 

[Boboclown]

Since the majority of killers have been on one of the psycho drugs it only makes sense to keep them away from guns. They should have tracker bracelets and nobody in their home should have guns lest they kill them for their guns to commit larger murders. It's going after the offender and thats the way to solve crimes.

All ritalin ever made me do is have a hard time sleeping and be too tired to really do anything, before I started just pretending to take them and flush em down the toilet that is (just a FYI I was forced to take them by the elementary school, doc said I did not have ADD/ADHD).

 

[Colts4me]

Gosh, don't you have common sense? They'll finally go after those shoulder things that go up!
View attachment 432958

now days with the herd mentality there is no common sense, just emotion. People are going to get screwed by this herd mentality and it won't be good sex, just rape.

 

[DB is Here]

You still haven't answered the challenge I made in my post above - prove to me that more laws are needed, especially when we know the laws on the books aren't being adequately enforced. Everyone tells us that gun owners need to compromise - guess what, they already have, many times - just look at all the laws already on the books. I'll say it over and over again - no more laws are needed. Get the damn government to enforce the laws that are already there. They have failed us, numerous times, by failing to enforce current laws - yet your answer is more laws. Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds?

More Laws...

 

[Colts4me]

All ritalin ever made me do is have a hard time sleeping and be too tired to really do anything, before I started just pretending to take them and flush em down the toilet that is (just a FYI I was forced to take them by the elementary school, doc said I did not have ADD/ADHD).

My point exactly, the kids are forced to take drugs that can turn them into killers by the very schools they go to. They create killers, you yourself have seen how they do it and have been a part of it. The kids shooting up the schools are turned to killers by the schools. Keep drugs out of the hands of the schools and require a license professional to give them out and if they are given out then no guns within 1,000 feet of those taking the drugs.