Latest "Mass" Shooting Discussion

[rjmt]

Median household income is around $65k per year. The average American household lives paycheck to paycheck. According to a news article last week, the average family making $220k per year also lives paycheck to paycheck.

I'm not entirely sure a run on banks for "cash savings" would do much in the US.

not cash savings, cashing monthly pay checks
the migrant workers up here still do it

 

[rjmt]

I've heard their coming for my guns since 1991
only a tyrannical change in government would allow this
and that is what the 2nd Amendment is for
it makes for good paranoia and rhetoric, but I don't see it in reality
and digitally turning off ones life is even more unlikely, this is not China
Americans are not like the Australians, they aren't going to march down to the local police station to turn in their guns

 

[Ura-Ki]

Have you not been paying attention? They are arresting political enemies and silencing exposure of their lies as "disinformation". It has become clear that massive election fraud is in fact real. They just locked the country down for two years over a flu with a 99.97% survival rate. That literally is tyranny.

Not to mention the serious push against the 2nd rights by illegal legislation, weaponizing the AFT by allowing it to change rules with out oversite! Allowing states to set precedent despite laws that specifically prevent said actions, and finally, allowing courts to rule from the bench instead of actual fact and following the exact language of the BOR! SCOTUS has consistently refused to take a good case on the 2nd because, among the political heart aches, they are also afraid of what a true ruling on the 2nd would do politically as well as actually at street level!

 

[rjmt]

Have you not been paying attention? They are arresting political enemies and silencing exposure of their lies as "disinformation". It has become clear that massive election fraud is in fact real. They just locked the country down for two years over a flu with a 99.97% survival rate. That literally is tyranny.

yup, heard all this back in 1991
guess I better dig my bunker deeper
I'm still here and still have my firearms

now from a lawsuit filed in Washington state on June 4, 2022

"The FPC claims that Washington residents can't rely on law enforcement to protect them and that they need access to their weapons and magazines in order to protect themselves.

"During uncertain times — with the recognition that governments have no legal duty to protect the people they serve — there is no guarantee that law enforcement will respond to an individual's 911 call during this crisis or after it," the lawsuit says. "Those who choose to exercise their fundamental and individual Second and Fourteenth Amendment protected rights cannot be denied those rights."

"they're coming to take me away - ha haaaaa"
they're going to digitally shut me down - ho- ho - he- heee
they won't raid a meth house on the next property, but they're going to come for me and my guns??
well, when they do, you won't know about it since I'm sure the first thing they are going to do is shut down my internet and phone
I don't think I'm important enough for the government to care
do any of you?

 

[Ura-Ki]

yup, heard all this back in 1991
guess I better dig my bunker deeper
I'm still here and still have my firearms

now from a lawsuit filed in Washington state on June 4, 2022

"The FPC claims that Washington residents can't rely on law enforcement to protect them and that they need access to their weapons and magazines in order to protect themselves.

"During uncertain times — with the recognition that governments have no legal duty to protect the people they serve — there is no guarantee that law enforcement will respond to an individual's 911 call during this crisis or after it," the lawsuit says. "Those who choose to exercise their fundamental and individual Second and Fourteenth Amendment protected rights cannot be denied those rights."

"they're coming to take me away - ha haaaaa"
they're going to digitally shut me down - ho- ho - he- heee
they won't raid a meth house on the next property, but they're going to come for me and my guns??
well, when they do, you won't know about it since I'm sure the first thing they are going to do is shut down my internet and phone
I don't think I'm important enough for the government to care
do any of you?

I agree mostly!


Here's how it will happen though!
You will be forced to comply, your bank account will be frozen, your kids taken away from you, all sorts of nasty not nice things said about you in public, and you will be given a choice, surrender them all, or become a nobody, removed from the system for good! Everything will be tied to your bank accounts and income! With the huge push to a cashless society, everything accessable 24/7 though your RFID chiped cards, you can be shut down and or hacked instantly, that's the threat they will use against you! They don't have to motor around sniffing for guns, you get a nasty gram in the mail and given 72 hours to comply before they ratchet up the nastyness! You will load everything up and deliver it to the drop off point, your picture taken, and your signature giving up everything they demand!

Doubt me, say it's all Tin Foil Conspiracy, but a year or two or five from now, let's revisit this conversation and see how many of us are still here, and still armed!

Or, you can say, will not comply, come and take them, then what? Are you completely off the grid yet, stock piled hight and deep enough to survive, what if they finally decide to come and force your compliance now that everyone else has complied? You say it won't ever happen, that this is America and all that, and that we won't take it lying down, really???? What makes you so sure of that? We are too fragmented and weak to stand shoulder to shoulder united against a single front, let alone several that will be used, we cannot even agree what day of the week it is, yet somehow we will rise up? Sorry buddy, this ain't 1942, and we will never be that united again!

 

[Flopsweat]

yup, heard all this back in 1991
guess I better dig my bunker deeper
I'm still here and still have my firearms

now from a lawsuit filed in Washington state on June 4, 2022

"The FPC claims that Washington residents can't rely on law enforcement to protect them and that they need access to their weapons and magazines in order to protect themselves.

"During uncertain times — with the recognition that governments have no legal duty to protect the people they serve — there is no guarantee that law enforcement will respond to an individual's 911 call during this crisis or after it," the lawsuit says. "Those who choose to exercise their fundamental and individual Second and Fourteenth Amendment protected rights cannot be denied those rights."

"they're coming to take me away - ha haaaaa"
they're going to digitally shut me down - ho- ho - he- heee
they won't raid a meth house on the next property, but they're going to come for me and my guns??
well, when they do, you won't know about it since I'm sure the first thing they are going to do is shut down my internet and phone
I don't think I'm important enough for the government to care
do any of you?

Cool cool. Let's talk again in a few months.

 

[rjmt]

I agree mostly!


Here's how it will happen though!
You will be forced to comply, your bank account will be frozen, your kids taken away from you, all sorts of nasty not nice things said about you in public, and you will be given a choice, surrender them all, or become a nobody, removed from the system for good! Everything will be tied to your bank accounts and income! With the huge push to a cashless society, everything accessable 24/7 though your RFID chiped cards, you can be shut down and or hacked instantly, that's the threat they will use against you! They don't have to motor around sniffing for guns, you get a nasty gram in the mail and given 72 hours to comply before they ratchet up the nastyness! You will load everything up and deliver it to the drop off point, your picture taken, and your signature giving up everything they demand!

Doubt me, say it's all Tin Foil Conspiracy, but a year or two or five from now, let's revisit this conversation and see how many of us are still here, and still armed!

Or, you can say, will not comply, come and take them, then what? Are you completely off the grid yet, stock piled hight and deep enough to survive, what if they finally decide to come and force your compliance now that everyone else has complied? You say it won't ever happen, that this is America and all that, and that we won't take it lying down, really???? What makes you so sure of that? We are too fragmented and weak to stand shoulder to shoulder united against a single front, let alone several that will be used, we cannot even agree what day of the week it is, yet somehow we will rise up? Sorry buddy, this ain't 1942, and we will never be that united again!

yup, lets come back to this in 2 years
heard the same in 1991 - and I'm still here
but there is no record of anything I purchased in the '80s and '90s
if they feel a need to come after my Mosins, Mausers and revolvers, then it will be a new society with jack booted street patrols
but I doubt any keyboard monkey for the new Totalitarian government is going to look at his database with it's social ratings and say
"there is this old pensioner out in the Lewis River Valley with a bunch of 100 year old bolt action rifles - we need to shut him down!!!"
I lived in Germany in a small farm village for 3 years
they told me not even the Nazis came into the country after their bolt action hunting rifles

and I don't need a tin foil hat, still have my 1968 issue M1 steel pot helmet

 

[American123]

I've heard their coming for my guns since 1991
only a tyrannical change in government would allow this
and that is what the 2nd Amendment is for
it makes for good paranoia and rhetoric, but I don't see it in reality
and digitally turning off ones life is even more unlikely, this is not China
Americans are not like the Australians, they aren't going to march down to the local police station to turn in their guns

It's slow and incremental and it is happening. All you have to do to see evidence of this is compare the gun rights of each generation. My grandpa lived during a time he could own full auto without additional hassle. He also could order a gun in the mail and have it shipped to his house.

 

[rjmt]

I agree mostly!


Here's how it will happen though!
You will be forced to comply, your bank account will be frozen, your kids taken away from you, all sorts of nasty not nice things said about you in public, and you will be given a choice, surrender them all, or become a nobody, removed from the system for good! Everything will be tied to your bank accounts and income! With the huge push to a cashless society, everything accessable 24/7 though your RFID chiped cards, you can be shut down and or hacked instantly, that's the threat they will use against you! They don't have to motor around sniffing for guns, you get a nasty gram in the mail and given 72 hours to comply before they ratchet up the nastyness! You will load everything up and deliver it to the drop off point, your picture taken, and your signature giving up everything they demand!

Doubt me, say it's all Tin Foil Conspiracy, but a year or two or five from now, let's revisit this conversation and see how many of us are still here, and still armed!

Or, you can say, will not comply, come and take them, then what? Are you completely off the grid yet, stock piled hight and deep enough to survive, what if they finally decide to come and force your compliance now that everyone else has complied? You say it won't ever happen, that this is America and all that, and that we won't take it lying down, really???? What makes you so sure of that? We are too fragmented and weak to stand shoulder to shoulder united against a single front, let alone several that will be used, we cannot even agree what day of the week it is, yet somehow we will rise up? Sorry buddy, this ain't 1942, and we will never be that united again!

I had a cousin who believed such
we all listened to his rantings since 1978
he couldn't keep a job since every employer would not put up with his rantings
his only son left the home at 18, disowned his father due to his rantings
when his two brothers died of medical reasons, he even ranted at the funerals that the NWO was out to get his family
after 40 years, his wife left him, because not even she could continue to put up with his delusion
then, at age 67, he was found dead, alone, on his kitchen floor, not a mark on him
guess the Tin Foil Hat conspiracy finally caught up with him

 

[rjmt]

It's slow and incremental and it is happening. All you have to do to see evidence of this is compare the gun rights of each generation. My grandpa lived during a time he could own full auto without additional hassle. He also could order a gun in the mail and have it shipped to his house.

now, I'm against a semi auto ban, and I believe we should be able to own High Cap magazines
but a belt fed machine gun?
I'm gona have to disagree there
gangs in Portland have acquired belt fed machineguns
personally, I'll have to put a limit at that point
a violent gang in Portland should be able to have a belt fed MG34 just to protect your right to also own one without licensing?

 

[Flopsweat]

now, I'm against a semi auto ban, and I believe we should be able to own High Cap magazines
but a belt fed machine gun?
I'm gona have to disagree there
gangs in Portland have acquired belt fed machineguns
personally, I'll have to put a limit at that point
a violent gang in Portland should be able to have a belt fed MG34 just to protect your right to also own one without licensing?

View attachment 1217667

A violent gang in Portland shouldn't be allowed to exist, let alone own anything.

 

[American123]

now, I'm against a semi auto ban, and I believe we should be able to own High Cap magazines
but a belt fed machine gun?
I'm gona have to disagree there
gangs in Portland have acquired belt fed machineguns
personally, I'll have to put a limit at that point
a violent gang in Portland should be able to have a belt fed MG34 just to protect your right to also own one without licensing?

View attachment 1217667

Your own argument defeats your own argument. If criminals already own things that are illegal for them to own, obviously the laws that hinder the rest of the law abiding, morally upstanding (at least when it comes to violence) populace, are meaningless.

In one hand you say "I have to draw the line there" the criminals laugh at that line you drew and do what they please anyway, they already have them.

If you say "I support the second amendment, but with limits." Then you should try reading it again and evaluate if you support it, or if you actually support your own arbitrary determinations of what should be allowed.

 

[rjmt]

Your own argument defeats your own argument. If criminals already own things that are illegal for them to own, obviously the laws that hinder the rest of the law abiding, morally upstanding (at least when it comes to violence) populace, are meaningless.

In one hand you say "I have to draw the line there" the criminals laugh at that line you drew and do what they please anyway, they already have them.

If you say "I support the second amendment, but with limits." Then you should try reading it again and evaluate if you support it, or if you actually support your own arbitrary determinations of what should be allowed.

that's easy
I support my own arbitrary beliefs as it applies to our social structure
do I believe you should be able to own a belt fed MG34 - no
do I believe you should be able to own an full auto M16 or AK47 - no
do I believe you should be able to own semi auto versions of the M16 and AK 47 - of course - and I do

are you suggesting that if I don't support anyone or everyone owning a belt fed MG34, then I don't believe in the 2nd amendment???
how about a Javelin anti tank weapon?
how about East German Frag grenades'?
thermal nuclear devises?
even just basic black powder pipe bombs?

WOW

 

[Flopsweat]

are you suggesting that if I don't support anyone or everyone owning a belt fed MG34, then I don't believe in the 2nd amendment???

I can't speak for him, but I for one believe exactly that. The people who wrote "shall not be infringed" weren't just back from a hunting trip. They were just back from a revolution. Their wisdom, hindsight and foresight came at great cost and are, as you might imagine, of great value. We just sent full auto weapons to the citizens of Ukraine. I bet most of them wish they'd already had them ahead of time.

 

[rjmt]

I can't speak for him, but I for one believe exactly that. The people who wrote "shall not be infringed" weren't just back from a hunting trip. They were just back from a revolution. Their wisdom, hindsight and foresight came at great cost and are, as you might imagine, of great value. We just sent full auto weapons to the citizens of Ukraine. I bet most of them wish they'd already had them ahead of time.

OK , then
I will not dispute your interpretation of the 2nd Amendment
but I will not invite or allow shooters with full auto or belt fed machine guns out to my private shooting range
just my personal choice

 

[Flopsweat]

OK , then
I will not dispute your interpretation of the 2nd Amendment
but I will not invite or allow shooters with full auto or belt fed machine guns out to my private shooting range
just my personal choice

That seems reasonable.

 

[rjmt]

That seems reasonable.

I like people with reasonable beliefs
it's those who are so committed to their personal beliefs or philosophy's that they can't accept the beliefs of others that I have issues with
my interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is not the same as yours - but we can still agree to disagree

 

[Flopsweat]

I like people with reasonable beliefs
it's those who are so committed to their personal beliefs or philosophy's that they can't accept the beliefs of others that I have issues with
my interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is not the same as yours - but we can still agree to disagree

Concur.

 

[American123]

that's easy
I support my own arbitrary beliefs as it applies to our social structure
do I believe you should be able to own a belt fed MG34 - no
do I believe you should be able to own an full auto M16 or AK47 - no
do I believe you should be able to own semi auto versions of the M16 and AK 47 - of course - and I do

are you suggesting that if I don't support anyone or everyone owning a belt fed MG34, then I don't believe in the 2nd amendment???
how about a Javelin anti tank weapon?
how about East German Frag grenades'?
thermal nuclear devises?
even just basic black powder pipe bombs?

WOW

Did you read anywhere in the constitution where the founders stated - "none of this matters if a bigger bomb is made, or a gun is developed that is beyond the current limitations of the technology at the time?

It sounds like you believe in privileges instead of rights. You can say you support people owning guns (with limits), but you're masquerading as a supporter of the 2nd amendment, which by your own admission, you aren't.

If this were a football game the left would be playing to win and score a touchdown, and your ideology would be equivalent to only trying to get to the 50 yard line every possession and then handing the ball back to the other team once you did.

Edit: regarding big bombs, grenades, and full auto guns. The people who already cause problems with guns and break plenty of laws when doing so are already a problem and don't care about the laws. The people who already (collectively) own hundreds of millions of guns and don't commit violence with them would not be a problem, because they aren't already a problem and handing them more weaponry won't make them prone to violence that they aren't already demonstrating.

If we revert to the intent of the 2nd amendment's purpose - promote liberty and prevent tyranny - a government able to impose restrictions is exactly the opposite of what was intended. If arbitrary parameters are allowed, then there is no reason why the population couldn't be restricted to muskets and black powder, because "some people" view that as their arbitrary line of "reasonable."

 

[Flopsweat]

Did you read anywhere in the constitution where the founders stated - "none of this matters if a bigger bomb is made, or a gun is developed that is beyond the current limitations of the technology at the time?

It sounds like you believe in privileges instead of rights. You can say you support people owning guns (with limits), but you're masquerading as a supporter of the 2nd amendment, which by your own admission, you aren't.

If this were a football game the left would be playing to win and score a touchdown, and your ideology would be equivalent to only trying to get to the 50 yard line every possession and then handing the ball back to the other team once you did.

Good point. People owned cannons, punt guns and warships at that time. Surely they'd have mentioned that. Look up "grape shot" if you want a real gruesome visual. Citizens bought Gatling Guns during the Civil War.