Home Invasion and Lessons Learned

[bbbass]

OH YEAH


No.
I've shot similar rounds made by Wolf at a pop can 15' away and didn't hit the can. Maybe they're fine in a shotgun but not worth a dang in a judge type gun. The rifling throws those discs all over.

My Judge guns came with two inserts for the barrel... one with rifling for shooting .45Colt rounds and one with no rifling for shooting shotgun rounds. I've shot PDX1 rounds out of my 2" Judge at a watermelon from 10' away and it was devastating impact that blew pink and green stuff in a mist. Same with the long gun Circuit Judge at 20'. If you are shooting with a rifled barrel or at longer distances, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Why would you expect to hit a pop can at 15' anyway? Might as well shoot 00 buck at a bottle cap!!!! What Wolf round are you talking about? I wasn't able to find it online.

 

[UserNameInUse]

I'm still looking for a reasonably priced source where I can buy some without having S&H that equals or exceeds the purchase price.

Main thing is to find a place that sells the 50 rnd boxes, not the 20 rnd. plastic boutique packaging you find in stores for the same price. My typical shipping cost from SGAmmo was $12.

 

[U8395279]

.40S&W (180 gr HST) is my first choice as a defense caliber, as I feel it offers the best combination of performance AND capacity, followed by .45auto, then 9mm.

No, the three calibers are not "all equal". There are performance differences between the calibers and there always will be. 9mm does not offer as much performance as the "4x" calibers do, but it is an acceptable choice, given using the best loads available, for those needing a lighter caliber and/or slightly more capacity. If choosing very small pistols, I think 9mm makes the most sense in those small pistols.

On those rare occasions where I carry a 9mm pistol, Federal 124 gr +P HST is what I carry.

For me, the choice between 9mm and 40 S&W was an easy one to make. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to be able to see the difference.

 

[U8395279]

Although really, when one thinks about it more deeply, I have to say that I agree with the earlier post recommending 12 gauge #4 Buckshot. If you want stopping power, a 12 gauge is very hard to beat.





A Magnum load of lead BB's ( .177 caliber ) would ruin someone's day too. But that ammo has become hard to find. Probably #4 Buckshot ( .24 caliber ) is the better choice, anyway.

 

[DB is Here]

For me, the choice between 9mm and 40 S&W was an easy one to make. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to be able to see the difference.


View attachment 326434

I started carrying the Glock 23 .40 as being my EDC, it wasn't until I shot my friends Glock 19 9mm that made me change to the 9mm.

I wish I was as accurate with my .40 but I'm more accurate & get quicker shots on target with my 9mm & .45

 

[U8395279]

I started carrying the Glock 23 .40 as being my EDC, it wasn't until I shot my friends Glock 19 9mm that made me change to the 9mm.

I wish I was as accurate with my .40 but I'm more accurate & get quicker shots on target with my 9mm & .45

The Glock was never designed from the ground up as a .40 S&W pistol. It was hurriedly added as an afterthought, after the FBI switched to it.

If someone wants to shoot this caliber, you need to use a newer pistol that was designed for it from the get go.

 

[Certaindeaf]

For me, the choice between 9mm and 40 S&W was an easy one to make. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to be able to see the difference.


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I didn't really read all the nuances of all the linked articles or whatever but anyway.. that's some simple ignorance right there.
What has been deemed the all-time best stopper? The classic 125gr sjhp out of the .357 magnum.. going about 1400fps.
What most approximates that load?. I'd daresay the Underwood 9mm 115gr +p+ jhp going 1550fps.

 

[DHart]

For me, the choice between 9mm and 40 S&W was an easy one to make. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to be able to see the difference.


View attachment 326434

Easy choice for me, as well. I love .40S&W as it combines potent terminal ballistics, high capacity, and easy-shootability (given a proper .40S&W pistol). And, with the 180 gr bullet weight, has a greater ability than lighter weight bullets to bust through heavy bones that are likely to be between you and the soft tissue of an assailant, particularly a heavily built assailant that may be turned slightly askew from a perfect straight-in shot, or who is likely to have arms raised out in front of himself.



.40S&W 180 gr HST consistently tests with 18.5" penetration and .72" expansion.

 

[DHart]

Although really, when one thinks about it more deeply, I have to say that I agree with the earlier post recommending 12 gauge #4 Buckshot. If you want stopping power, a 12 gauge is very hard to beat.

View attachment 326439



A Magnum load of lead BB's ( .177 caliber ) would ruin someone's day too. But that ammo has become hard to find. Probably #4 Buckshot ( .24 caliber ) is the better choice, anyway.

View attachment 326440

Of course. I don't think anyone would choose a pistol over a 12 ga shotgun loaded with 00 Buckshot. That's a man stopper like nothing else.

 

[DHart]

I started carrying the Glock 23 .40 as being my EDC, it wasn't until I shot my friends Glock 19 9mm that made me change to the 9mm.

I wish I was as accurate with my .40 but I'm more accurate & get quicker shots on target with my 9mm & .45

Your first mistake in going with .40S&W was choosing a G23 as your pistol. Unfortunately, you aren't alone in that by any means. The G23 is probably the most commonly chosen pistol by those wanting to check out .40S&W.

Glock forty-caliber pistols are among the worst in terms of being enjoyable, comfortable-shooting .40S&W pistols. They're reliable, of course, but compare shooting side-by-side with an M&P40, M&P40C, Sig P320 40, HK VP40, PPQ 40, Browning HiPower 40, or Sig 229 40, and I find my two G23 models (Gen 3 and Gen 4) and my G22 Gen 4 to be the sharpest, snappiest, least-enjoyable pistols of them all.

Yes, I have them all. .40S&W is my favorite caliber for carry (due to the exceptional combination of potency, capacity, and easy-shooting). I have since converted my G23 and G22 over to 9mm so that I can enjoy shooting them. For the most part, though, I shoot and carry my M&P40, M&P40C, P320 Full Size 40, and P320 Compact size 40; wonderfully soft-shooting and enjoyable pistols.

If you were shooting 155 gr or 165 gr defense loads in your G23, that would have been your second mistake in your .40S&W experience. In .40S&W, the 180 gr loads are much softer shooting than those lighter loads.

Try this all over again with an M&P40 or P320 40, shooting 180 gr loads and you will find .40S&W to be quite enjoyably soft- and quick-shooting, and exceptionally accurate.

 

[DHart]

The Glock was never designed from the ground up as a .40 S&W pistol. It was hurriedly added as an afterthought, after the FBI switched to it.

If someone wants to shoot this caliber, you need to use a newer pistol that was designed for it from the get go.

You are so right, Lance. We're totally on the same page.

 

[DB is Here]

Your first mistake in going with .40S&W was choosing a G23 as your pistol. Unfortunately, you aren't alone in that by any means. The G23 is probably the most commonly chosen pistol by those wanting to check out .40S&W.

Glock forty-caliber pistols are among the worst in terms of being enjoyable, comfortable-shooting .40S&W pistols. They're reliable, of course, but compare shooting side-by-side with an M&P40, M&P40C, Sig P320 40, HK VP40, PPQ 40, Browning HiPower 40, or Sig 229 40, and I find my two G23 models (Gen 3 and Gen 4) and my G22 Gen 4 to be the sharpest, snappiest, least-enjoyable pistols of them all.

Yes, I have them all. .40S&W is my favorite caliber for carry (due to the exceptional combination of potency, capacity, and eat-shooting). I have since converted my G23 and G22 over to 9mm so that I can not enjoy shooting them. For the most part, though, I shoot and carry my M&P40, M&P40C, P320 Full Size 40, and P320 Compact size 40; wonderfully soft-shooting and enjoyable pistols.

If you were shooting 155 gr or 165 gr defense loads in your G23, that would have been your second mistake in your .40S&W experience. In .40S&W, the 180 gr loads are much softer shooting than those lighter loads.

Try this all over again with an M&P40 or P320 40, shooting 180 gr loads and you will find .40S&W to be quite enjoyably soft- and quick-shooting, and exceptionally accurate.

Glock wasn't my choice, Dept made that one. After shooting them all these years I've just become proficient with them. That being said, I'd love to get a Sig.

 

[mjbskwim]

All the rocket science and comparing 9 to 40? Well then rocket science would tell you to use the S&W 500 no?
Not if you can't shoot it worth a darn
22lr is perfectly fine if your weak hands can't handle anything bigger. That's not rocket science.
And if I am pointing my m39 at you it's going to be a very bad day for you. Or my mkIII or...... you fill in your favorite 22
One of the reasons a lot of folks went back to 9mm is the lighter recoil in virtually the same gun. They don't like the snap of the 40.
Sooooo,they shoot the 9 better and hit targets better.
Simple brain surgery
For around town I carry the largest caliber I can shoot well and carries comfortably.
At home I use what ever gets picked first. I'm going to make sure of my target so over penetration won't be a problem.
I'm not going to just start sending rounds down the hall.
Again,a home defense gun should be the largest caliber or gauge you can shoot proficiently. 410,20,12 ga.,a 30-30,357,44 lever gun,whatever your EDC is in whatever caliber.....if that's what you shoot best and are most familiar with.
Just remember most of the folks that will do you harm have some chemicals in them to make them really not GAS about you and your loved ones at all.

 

[Joly]

It is just a crappy shame...the bad guys get better treatment than good citizens... I hate the fact that I have to be viciously attacked in order to shoot some bad guy accosting me or mine. In the incident mentioned...I would have blown the guy away using my Mossberg 500 shot gun with pistol grip (it rests under my bed); I use OO buck because I want the problem to end, now. It may go through a wall or two (just me and my wife here) but I feel confident of its stopping power. I think we good guys have become too careful about when we shoot these criminals. They brought it on; they started the threats and violence; we can end it; I will. I have no qualms at all about shooting a validly life-threatening person; none at all; I won't hesitate. I wish the victim in this case would have removed the criminal from ever having the opportunity to harm another person ever.

 

[Flopsweat]

All the rocket science and comparing 9 to 40? Well then rocket science would tell you to use the S&W 500 no?
Not if you can't shoot it worth a darn
22lr is perfectly fine if your weak hands can't handle anything bigger. That's not rocket science.
And if I am pointing my m39 at you it's going to be a very bad day for you. Or my mkIII or...... you fill in your favorite 22
One of the reasons a lot of folks went back to 9mm is the lighter recoil in virtually the same gun. They don't like the snap of the 40.
Sooooo,they shoot the 9 better and hit targets better.
Simple brain surgery
For around town I carry the largest caliber I can shoot well and carries comfortably.
At home I use what ever gets picked first. I'm going to make sure of my target so over penetration won't be a problem.
I'm not going to just start sending rounds down the hall.
Again,a home defense gun should be the largest caliber or gauge you can shoot proficiently. 410,20,12 ga.,a 30-30,357,44 lever gun,whatever your EDC is in whatever caliber.....if that's what you shoot best and are most familiar with.
Just remember most of the folks that will do you harm have some chemicals in them to make them really not GAS about you and your loved ones at all.

Just as the best self defense gun is the one that you actually will carry, the best self defense caliber is the one that you can score hits with confidently.

 

[PaulB47]

.40 proponents like to ignore a couple of points:

cost of ammo - 9mm is cheaper which means for an equal amount of dollars spent on practice ammo, 9mm shooters are going to get substantially more practice. Hits are what count.

recoil - 9mm has less recoil so for an equal gun weight, shooters are going to have more success getting rounds on target, even ignoring the practice advantage.

have a gun - the vast majority of defense incidents involved no shots at all, or shots that did not hit the target. for these caliber does not matter at all.

mag capacity - a couple more rounds in your mags (not an important factor, admittedly)

In 50 years, 9mm will own the world. Just the way things are going, folks.

 

[Vendor Hidden]

In 50 years, 9mm will own the world. Just the way things are going, folks.

I'm never going metric.

 

[Camelfilter]

I'm never going metric.

...it's too late my friend, because you understand the difference.

 

[RVTECH]

But that's just thinking. Doing is something completely different.

Yep - no one knows how he or she would react in a similar situation but I was trained to shoot center of mass - and it has been said you always revert to what you were trained to do.

 

[Flopsweat]

.40 proponents like to ignore a couple of points:

cost of ammo - 9mm is cheaper which means for an equal amount of dollars spent on practice ammo, 9mm shooters are going to get substantially more practice. Hits are what count.

recoil - 9mm has less recoil so for an equal gun weight, shooters are going to have more success getting rounds on target, even ignoring the practice advantage.

have a gun - the vast majority of defense incidents involved no shots at all, or shots that did not hit the target. for these caliber does not matter at all.

mag capacity - a couple more rounds in your mags (not an important factor, admittedly)

In 50 years, 9mm will own the world. Just the way things are going, folks.

In 50 years, technology will have changed the game dramatically. Energy weapons will be much smaller, lighter and less expensive than they are now. How much smaller and lighter, I cannot say. Whether they will outshine the ubiquitous 9mm, I can only guess. How susceptible to politicians they will be, who can say?

Yep - no one knows how he or she would react in a similar situation but I was trained to shoot center of mass - and it has been said you always revert to what you were trained to do.

This reminds me - I have to practice my running away screaming more. It scares the neighbors, but their kids love it. /s