Home Invasion and Lessons Learned

[11Charlie]

cell mate named Ben Dover

LMAFO thank god I've never met MR Dover!!

 

[Joe13]

LMAFO thank god I've never met MR Dover!!

That was from one of Chevy Chases films - Fletch or Fletch lives I think.

It was one of the ones where he was a reporter and got locked up:

In the cell:
Hi I'm Fletch.
Bend over - from big ugly guy...
Nice to meet you Ben.

Stuck with me over the years lol.

 

[mike633]

April 11, 2016, my daughter in law was murdered in her car at the locked gate to their property. 3-3 1/2 hours later when my son returned home from work and stopped at the gate, he was murdered by the same person. He was a neighbor. Their bodies and cars were moved about 15 road miles away to a clear-cut area in the woods just north of the OSO SLIDE, east of Arlington WA. A pit 5 feet deep was dug, their bodies dumped in then covered with dirt and plants to hice the grave. Their cars, Monique's Jeep and Pat's Range Rover were run off a 150' embankment, covered with camo tarp and duct tape then brush was added to break up the lines. It took 7 weeks to find them. SAR from 5 counties, ground penetrating radar and IR finally found the cars after about a week, but no bodies. Both brothers had run to Mexico. The brother that helped bury our kids came back across the border and turned himself in. He told Snohomish County Detective where the bodies and some personal affects were dumped. Monique was shot three times at very close range. rt fore arm, down thru top of rt shoulder, heart and rt lung, and an execution shot to the back of her head. A 9mm was the murder weapon. Patrick was executed with a shot behind the left ear at 3", with a .45.

Next month, John Reed will be told that the Prosecutor will go after the Death penalty or Life without possibility of parole

Bottom line, neither of our kids had a gun with them. Both were proficient with hand guns and ARs. 3,ARs, 1, "US" AK, 3, .45s etc were 50 yards away in the house. But, they were both attacked from behind. Neither had a chance.

 

[11Charlie]

@mike633 I am so sorry for your loss! Words can not convey how you must feel to this day. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

 

[Joe13]

April 11, 2016, my daughter in law was murdered in her car at the locked gate to their property. 3-3 1/2 hours later when my son returned home from work and stopped at the gate, he was murdered by the same person. He was a neighbor. Their bodies and cars were moved about 15 road miles away to a clear-cut area in the woods just north of the OSO SLIDE, east of Arlington WA. A pit 5 feet deep was dug, their bodies dumped in then covered with dirt and plants to hice the grave. Their cars, Monique's Jeep and Pat's Range Rover were run off a 150' embankment, covered with camo tarp and duct tape then brush was added to break up the lines. It took 7 weeks to find them. SAR from 5 counties, ground penetrating radar and IR finally found the cars after about a week, but no bodies. Both brothers had run to Mexico. The brother that helped bury our kids came back across the border and turned himself in. He told Snohomish County Detective where the bodies and some personal affects were dumped. Monique was shot three times at very close range. rt fore arm, down thru top of rt shoulder, heart and rt lung, and an execution shot to the back of her head. A 9mm was the murder weapon. Patrick was executed with a shot behind the left ear at 3", with a .45.

Next month, John Reed will be told that the Prosecutor will go after the Death penalty or Life without possibility of parole

Bottom line, neither of our kids had a gun with them. Both were proficient with hand guns and ARs. 3,ARs, 1, "US" AK, 3, .45s etc were 50 yards away in the house. But, they were both attacked from behind. Neither had a chance.

Jebus man!

Sorry for your loss - not sure what else to say as that is horrible

 

[Vorpalis]

Out of a 3" gun - these rounds proved to be the worse possible.

This sounds like a velocity problem, not a bullet problem.

The Gold Dot is one of the best-performing bullets for defense, but there's still an energy threshold below which expansion is unreliable – there's no side-stepping physics. Accelerating a bullet above this energy threshold requires a certain length of barrel for each bullet design, bullet weight and powder load. From DocGKR's testing, the 124gr. Gold Dot loaded to standard pressure doesn't expand as reliably as either its +P loading or the 147gr. Gold Dot loaded to standard pressure, especially from barrels 3" or less.

 

[Flopsweat]

LMAFO thank god I've never met MR Dover!!

I could swear I've met his friend Hal Itosis a couple of times.

 

[BlackRyder]

@mike633 I have been hearing about this story on the news over the last year, and I jut want to say that I am truly sorry for your loss. What a terrible thing.

 

[Vendor Hidden]

April 11, 2016, my daughter in law was murdered in her car at the locked gate to their property. 3-3 1/2 hours later when my son returned home from work and stopped at the gate, he was murdered by the same person. He was a neighbor. Their bodies and cars were moved about 15 road miles away to a clear-cut area in the woods just north of the OSO SLIDE, east of Arlington WA. A pit 5 feet deep was dug, their bodies dumped in then covered with dirt and plants to hice the grave. Their cars, Monique's Jeep and Pat's Range Rover were run off a 150' embankment, covered with camo tarp and duct tape then brush was added to break up the lines. It took 7 weeks to find them. SAR from 5 counties, ground penetrating radar and IR finally found the cars after about a week, but no bodies. Both brothers had run to Mexico. The brother that helped bury our kids came back across the border and turned himself in. He told Snohomish County Detective where the bodies and some personal affects were dumped. Monique was shot three times at very close range. rt fore arm, down thru top of rt shoulder, heart and rt lung, and an execution shot to the back of her head. A 9mm was the murder weapon. Patrick was executed with a shot behind the left ear at 3", with a .45.

Next month, John Reed will be told that the Prosecutor will go after the Death penalty or Life without possibility of parole

I don't have the words…

Bottom line, neither of our kids had a gun with them. Both were proficient with hand guns and ARs. 3,ARs, 1, "US" AK, 3, .45s etc were 50 yards away in the house. But, they were both attacked from behind. Neither had a chance.

Perhaps the lesson is that preparedness only gets you so far. There is no way to lower the risk of the totally unexpected because by definition, it can't be predicted.

In the end we can only appreciate and love those close to us all the more, because who knows what tomorrow brings?

 

[DHart]

IMO there is no reason to use a compact single stack pistol for home defense unless it is all you have.

Bingo.... winner, winner, chicken dinner.

The craze for short-barrel, low-capacity, small-caliber pocket pistols notwithstanding, if you are significantly concerned about having reasonably effective performance from a defense pistol, choose something with a decently long barrel (4" +), decently high capacity (12+ capacity), 9mm or HIGHER caliber, and feed it premium, proven loads for such a pistol. Further, have your defense gun immediately at hand at all times. And, most importantly, maintain alert situational awareness, which may give you the benefit of those precious seconds of advanced warning, whenever you are vulnerable.

 

[billdeserthills]

A burglar alarm without tear gas or a camera is as much use as a toothless guard dog
www.burglarbomb.com

 

[Flopsweat]

A burglar alarm without tear gas or a camera is as much use as a toothless guard dog
www.burglarbomb.com

The FAQ's are very entertaining, but this testimonial is hilarious:

They broke a hole in the roof to gain entrance, but after setting off the Repulsar they were unable to climb out. The burglars were begging the police to let them out when they arrived at the scene.

 

[Camelfilter]

...In the end we can only appreciate and love those close to us all the more, because who knows what tomorrow brings?

This.

 

[billdeserthills]

This.

you mean like,
In the end the love you make
is equal to the love you take?

Paul McCartney or something like that

 

[DHart]

Can't we all just lay down our arms and buy Cokes for those who would want to hurt us?

Hahaha, yeah.

 

[U8395279]

I don't have the words…

Perhaps the lesson is that preparedness only gets you so far. There is no way to lower the risk of the totally unexpected because by definition, it can't be predicted.

In the end we can only appreciate and love those close to us all the more, because who knows what tomorrow brings?

Sigmadog:

What you describe here is not at all what happened in this horrible tragedy. You have a total misimpression of the situation, as a lot of relevant information about the circumstances was not included in the telling of this story.

The killer and the brother that helped him get rid of the bodies were both convicted felons: men known to be criminals. The killer was the next door neighbor of the couple, and had made a number of threats to the couple and had been harassing them for a couple of years. He had even specifically threatened to shoot them. This had forced the couple to even sue the killer, for all of his crazy harassment and threats.

So this was not some sort of happenstance situation that came out of the blue. Just the opposite: the killer had specifically told them that he was going to shoot them. And then he eventually went ahead and made good on his threat.

I think that the lesson to be learned here is that a person cannot rely on the courts and law enforcement to protect you. Especially if you live out on a such a remote rural road.

There are unfortunately some truly crazy criminals out loose in our society. And if you are unfortunate enough to encounter one like this monster John Reed, you really need to take extreme steps to protect yourself.

Former neighbor, now wanted by police, threatened to shoot missing Arlington couple, records say

 

[BillGabby1]

Y'all need to take the time to read these articles, great stuff, and it will open your eyes.
Gabby
Shooting The Bull

 

[BillGabby1]

These 9mm Federal HST 147gr standard velocity JHP rounds expanded to .6XX inches and penetrated a perfect 13" into calibrated ballistic gel.

After watching several tests in which standard 147 JHP rounds actually outperformed the +P 147 and 124 versions I'm buying them today. The lighter weight bullets tended to expand less and therefor penetrate too far. The standard velocity rounds seemed to consistently perform better in something like my Ruger LC9s with a 3" barrel.

BTW, the Gold Dot 124gr rounds performed very inconsistently, with 40% failing to expand and passing straight thru 32" of ballistic gel. This is consistent with what the home invasion report says about them.

I did not watch any tests of ball ammo, but I know for sure that FMJ in the same weight with the same velocity will not expand nearly enough, and will over penetrate.

FMJ aka "Ball" ammo was developed for the military due to the Geneva Convention rules regarding ammo, they outlawed hollow points as being inhumane in time of war. Talk about an oxymoron, there you have a big one.
Their thinking was it takes from 2 to as many as six people out of the fight to take care of one wounded (not killed) combatant thereby causing the people fighting to soon all be busy taking care of the wounded, and the fight would be over. Pretty naïve thinking don't you agree?
"Shooting The Bull", did exhaustive tests of ammo from short barreled guns and in particular the 9mm Luger round, tested thru a 3" barrel.
His tests following FBI protocol showed the Federal HST in any of the weights tested, 115gr, 124gr and 147gr.
Performed perfectly with full expansion and penetration according to specs of a minimum of 12" and a max of 18".
My only problem with his results are the very dearth of Federal HST ammo on the market, and if available was too expensive for my meager pocket book.
I'm still looking for a reasonably priced source where I can buy some without having S&H that equals or exceeds the purchase price.
I want some as this is the round our local Sheriff's department issues to their deputies, and if it's good enough for them it's good enough for me!
My lawyer would agree with me.
Gabby

 

[DHart]

.40S&W (180 gr HST) is my first choice as a defense caliber, as I feel it offers the best combination of performance AND capacity, followed by .45auto, then 9mm.

No, the three calibers are not "all equal". There are performance differences between the calibers and there always will be. 9mm does not offer as much performance as the "4x" calibers do, but it is an acceptable choice, given using the best loads available, for those needing a lighter caliber and/or slightly more capacity. If choosing very small pistols, I think 9mm makes the most sense in those small pistols.

On those rare occasions where I carry a 9mm pistol, Federal 124 gr +P HST is what I carry.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

FMJ aka "Ball" ammo was developed for the military due to the Geneva Convention rules regarding ammo, they outlawed hollow points as being inhumane in time of war. Talk about an oxymoron, there you have a big one.
Their thinking was it takes from 2 to as many as six people out of the fight to take care of one wounded (not killed) combatant thereby causing the people fighting to soon all be busy taking care of the wounded, and the fight would be over. Pretty naïve thinking don't you agree?
"Shooting The Bull", did exhaustive tests of ammo from short barreled guns and in particular the 9mm Luger round, tested thru a 3" barrel.
His tests following FBI protocol showed the Federal HST in any of the weights tested, 115gr, 124gr and 147gr.
Performed perfectly with full expansion and penetration according to specs of a minimum of 12" and a max of 18".
My only problem with his results are the very dearth of Federal HST ammo on the market, and if available was too expensive for my meager pocket book.
I'm still looking for a reasonably priced source where I can buy some without having S&H that equals or exceeds the purchase price.
I want some as this is the round our local Sheriff's department issues to their deputies, and if it's good enough for them it's good enough for me!
My lawyer would agree with me.
Gabby

I got mine from ammodepot.com. Yes, expensive and shipping was about the same as a normal box of 9mm, but I won't be actually using all that much of it. Just enough to make sure it feeds well in my weapons and hits where they are aimed. Peace of mind produced by having ammo you KNOW will perform is worth something extra.