Help me understand?

[Member 34319]

The price of a beer gives me the better image of costs of living. Thats why I asked. That price isn't too much different than the states. So if beer and food is similarly priced, as maybe cost of rent or home ownership? I can better state that recreational shooting for the average English citizen exceeds in costs than that of an average American citizen, with more clarity.

I asked about the lessor expensive guns, because the market here in the states is flooded with them. New shooters tend to buy something less expensive over something higher priced. Since they may or may not commit to being an avid recreational shooter, hunter or whatnot. There is also buying guns for self defense, a category you don't have at all in the UK? New gun ownership for defense purposes can vary in purchase price greatly depending on the buyers needs and or budget. Less expensive guns certainly help folks wanting to get a gun, purchase one. My first shotgun, I bought for multiple reasons was $120. I would have never gotten into this hobby had it not been for that purchase. Had I only been able to buy a $600 shotgun. I'd probably not be here today.

When I ask about less expensive guns, it's not to compare differences in costs per say (though that information helps), it's to see if that option where available if it may increase potential gun ownership in the UK? If that makes sense?

I myself truly enjoy new shooters coming into the world of recreational shooting, hunting, and or gun ownership. It helps build the culture and works in our favor to have more than less with the battle to keep the rights in place, in the states.

I was curious if you see anything similar in the UK, a push for expanding gun ownership?

 

[tac]

Nailed it, Mike! Here is a typical noob induction. All this happens AFTER they have joined as a probationary member - cost just £10 and they can walk away at any time. However, they MUST attend at least six times in three months to stand a chance off getting full membership. They NEED full membership to be able to apply for their firearms Certificate [FAC],

One of us instructors - we have around twenty NRA/NSRA qualified, will take the noob under his or her wing with a basic .22 rifle, usually with a scope, either on the 25 or 50m range. We have right and left-hand action b/a rifles for club use, as well as .223, .303, .308 and a .357 Mag lever action. He will then run through the essentials of gun safety and handling etiquette, bearing in mind that the range is primarily in use by people who will be keeping a beady eye on them most of the time. Having gotten the noob working with the basics of shooting, he will stay with them for at least the first couple of sessions- usually up to three hours at a time, until they feel confident to do stuff without somebody leaning over them.

The noob will also get to try a wide range of smaller calibre rifles and carbines belonging to other club members, who will also teach them how to shoot with it. It's not rocket science, right? When the noob has shown the necessary application to the learning process and wiped the stupid grin off their face, somebody, usually their mentor, will introduce them to the .223 Rem rifle or carbine, and the 100m range where all centrefire rifles shooting jacketed bullets must be used. Of course, anyone who has a different .223 or similarly gentle round will let them have a go with that, too, and over the three months, the noob will get to shoot a HUGE range of different guns of all kinds, except, of course, self-loading semiautos - we don't have them in yUK since 1986 and the Hungerford Massacre.

The noob is required to log the various types of guns and calibres they have shot over the three month period on their attendance sheet in the visit register. This is so that the CRCO and rest of the club management team can see that they have had a good rounding in everything available to them to shoot. The rule is simple - no noob will ever stand around with thumb up butt while there is anybody on the range to 'give them a go' with a gun - ANY gun. No charge for this - if you invite a noob to shoot, it's like inviting somebody to your house for dinner - no charge. A guest day at the club range can often be pretty costly, especially for somebody like me with a couple of oddball rifles for them to shoot. Even the ever-popular .303 British factory stuff is a $1.15 per shot.... We suck it up, knowing that one day, the noob will be an old hand, and doing it for the new noobs or guests.

 

[tac]

The price of a beer gives me the better image of costs of living. Thats why I asked. That price isn't too much different than the states. So if beer and food is similarly priced, as maybe cost of rent or home ownership? I can better state that recreational shooting for the average English citizen exceeds in costs than that of an average American citizen, with more clarity.

Beer is dear here because of the 20% tax on alcoholic beverages. No use trying to equate homes - most of yours are WAY bigger than most of ours and costs here, because of the shortage of building land, are horrendous, to say the least. There is absolutely NO doubt that recreational shooting in the USA is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY cheaper than here.

I asked about the lessor expensive guns, because the market here in the states is flooded with them. New shooters tend to buy something less expensive over something higher priced. Since they may or may not commit to being an avid recreational shooter, hunter or whatnot.

You've read what we have to do to get just ONE gun? You've read what we have to do to satisfy the authorities that we are fit persons to be allowed to have a live firearm - ONE live firearm? Buying a gun really is a life-time decision here in yUK and most other European countries, too. It is not the kind of thing you do on a whim. In the USA you can just buy a gun, find a range and take along somebody to show you how to shoot it. Nothing like that exists outside the USA, truly.

There is also buying guns for self defense, a category you don't have at all in the UK?

Definitely not. Northern Ireland is different, though. If you are a police officer, law enforcement, part of the judiciary or government, part-time military - that is to say, somebody whose life is at risk from home-grown terrorism, then you can be ISSUED with a personal protection handgun. There are about 3500 such issued pistols in Northern Ireland as we speak. NOT on mainland yUK, though.

New gun ownership for defense purposes can vary in purchase price greatly depending on the buyers needs and or budget. Less expensive guns certainly help folks wanting to get a gun, purchase one. My first shotgun, I bought for multiple reasons was $120. I would have never gotten into this hobby had it not been for that purchase. Had I only been able to buy a $600 shotgun. I'd probably not be here today.

Walk in, buy a shotgun for £100, walk out. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Nope, never going to happen here.

Shotguns need a shotgun certificate.

When I ask about less expensive guns, it's not to compare differences in costs per say (though that information helps), it's to see if that option where available if it may increase potential gun ownership in the UK? If that makes sense?

I don't think it would make any difference to gun ownership. Y'see, most folks feel that there is a qualitative difference between the ownership of a Mazda Miata and a Porsche Carrera, a Casio and a Breitling, a pair of sneakers from Giant Tiger and a pair of Lobbs broques. As long as there is perceived quality, the rationale for the often wacky price can be overlooked. They are all cars, watches and footwear, but it is what the do and how they do it that matters, too. As for cost of living, well, my house would give you a fit of the giggles - it's a three-bedroom house, sure, but the biggest bedroom measures just fifteen feet by fifteen feet, My back yard is thirty-two by thirty two feet, with a passage down the side of the house for access to it. I have NO garage - it was converted into a workroom before we bought the house. No houses in UK have basements, and I can't stand up in the roof space. My front yard is five feet deep and twelve feet long and filled with gravel.

It looks exactly like 50% of its neighbours, and in the year 2000 you would have needed $350K to buy it.

I myself truly enjoy new shooters coming into the world of recreational shooting, hunting, and or gun ownership. It helps build the culture and works in our favor to have more than less with the battle to keep the rights in place, in the states.

I was curious if you see anything similar in the UK, a push for expanding gun ownership?

Nope, not at all. Basically, it boils down the FACT that here in yUK, and in most every other country in the civilised world, gun ownership is NOT a right.

It's a privilege that has to be paid for, and because of that, it can be taken away at the stroke of a pen, as it was in 1986 and 1997 in yUK. 1986 - semi-auto centrefires were banned, and in 1997 all cartridge-firing handguns were made prohibited weapons on mainland yUK.

For what reason would we want to push gun ownership in such an atmosphere of misunderstanding? If you asked the average joe if he wanted a gun, and what for, he is more than likely to say 'Bloody right I do!!! I'd shoot them f******* [please fill in the usual identities/nationalities]!!'

I'd truly be amazed if any more than one person in ten replied that they'd love to join a gun club and learn to shoot as a sport.

 

[Member 34319]

Thanks for the write up!

It makes me feel good about what I'm sure most Americans take for granted.

I will say that I would love to see lesser expensive guns as an option in the UK, in my mind I would think that it might help, only based on what you have said about the used market assisting in a gun purchase for a new shooter at lower costs.

Im fully aware of value perception, as I mentioned earlier I was heavily interested (during my college days) in marketing and the psychology behind luxury items. I'll say one thing, you'll see more folks driving a Miata than a Carrera, especially in the states. If your goal was to sell cars, so as to get more people driving, I'd certainly be selling the Miata.

However I'll take your word for the matter as I don't live in UK or participate in UKs gun culture, so I can only speculate on my end.

 

[tac]

As I noted yesterday, we see a $500 rifle as something of a bargain here...and yUK really doesn't have a gun culture, at least, the way you understand the term.

Over here there was no push to the West, and no indigenous population to push out of the way, no Gold Rush, and no shoot-em-up-townships sprouting out of nowhere, no cowboys, no range-wars and no gigantic rush of populations.

Pretty boring, really.

 

[Greenbug]

As I noted yesterday, we see a $500 rifle as something of a bargain here...and yUK really doesn't have a gun culture, at least, the way you understand the term.

Over here there was no push to the West, and no indigenous population to push out of the way, no Gold Rush, and no shoot-em-up-townships sprouting out of nowhere, no cowboys, no range-wars and no gigantic rush of populations.

Pretty boring, really.

So.... You folks don't have Mall Ninja's over there?


J/K


I do enjoy reading your posts @tac

 

[tac]

So.... You folks don't have Mall Ninja's over there? J/K


I do enjoy reading your posts @tac

Nope.

Anybody walking around like this is pretty much looking to get shot where he stands...

I guess you've somehow overlooked that these days our armed police don't look like this any more...

They look like this.....

or this...

or this................

She'll be smiling as she blows your head off.

 

[Greenbug]

Looks like they are all outfitted with Sig Sauer MCX's?

 

[tac]

Yeah, we got a deal. We have to show them off at every opportunity, maybe wear a hat? Now and then we also get to use them, like blatzing the murdering scumbag on London Bridge a couple of weeks ago.

Good to know that ex-PM May, when she was in office, recently gave the UK police the go-ahead to shoot to kill, eh?

 

[Greenbug]

Glad to hear they schwacked that degenerate.

 

[tac]

Back to the subject...

Here's a very popular .308Win factory load for those here in yUK who don't reload......


Hornady .308 150GR GMX Ammo (Non Toxic)
£49.99
In stock
Add to Wish ListAdd to Compare

Note the price - $66 - for twenty......

 

[Member 34319]

Roughly 2x the cost here in the states.

Im certainly glad there is still an ability to participate in shooting sports in the UK, while definitely not the same as the US, at least there is still some ability to do so.

I can only hope, we, the US, will always have it's ability to shoot hunt and own for self defense for as long as possible.

Thanks again for the continued conversation tac!

 

[tac]

I can only hope, we, the US, will always have it's ability to shoot hunt and own for self defense for as long as possible.

Amen.

 

[Caveman Jim]

I love my Ruger 10-22 for what it is, a tool to teach youngins how to respect firearms, marksmanship and to freak out the young guys who see the shredded targets (2" groups @ 50 yards, I'm talking two inches of paper missing) after a few magazines....

I'll add that most people have ARs & AK's that cost over $1000 so why not an accurate 22?

 

[wired]

I spray and pray with my AR's and AK's. I literally dont care if I hit anything with them. .22's on the other hand I want to shoot a gnats balls with at 50 yards.

 

[tac]

Here in yUK there are NO AKs or ARs that are not .22cal. Well, semi-autos, that is. It's hard to 'spray and pray' when you are hand-cranking that action, AND thinking of how much it's costing you....

 

[Member 34319]

So I tried this, this past weekend, with my Ruger American Rimfire bolt action 22lr. With a $100 scope too. At 50 yards I was able to complete it once! That last one is literally the size of the bullet. I was shooting Federal Match Ammo. Most of the time I'd get the first five and miss the sixth. I'd imagine with a better scope, my rifle could do better. I ended up dialing up on my scope and holding in the clear part of my reticle vs using my reticle that covered the smaller targets.

Next weekend I'll hit up Tri County and see what my Ruger does on paper with some of the various ammos and post it here. Been meaning to do this to prove my point about rimfire rifles...

 

[Legs]

In the 22 rimfire stable are a Remington Model Five for newbs and training, several 10/22 for fun and hunt, couple of Anschutz for precision target and competition. Somewhere in the mix are a Ruger American, Ruger 77/22 and Marlin 39a. All are satisfying... just depends on one's needs.

 

[tac]

'...just depends on your need', hits the nail on the head.

Casual plinking, or basic small pest control, an economy model will git 'er done.

Competition 25 and 50 yard precision?

You need something totally different.

 

[WAYNO]

Been meaning to do this to prove my point about rimfire rifles...

As long as you're satisfied, that's all that matters.