Gun recommendation help, and is the 270 underrated?

[Goosebrown]

Measurable is not synonymous with significant.



P

Wow. Who knew. Maybe that's why I didn't use the word significant.

This thread is sort of messed up. There are hunting rifles and target rifles. 270 is a hunting rifle and has never been anything but.

It you want a long range target rifle then get a caliber that's going to do the job. Because 270 isn't ever going to be competitive. If it were poeple would use it for that and they don't.

 

[eightyeight mag]

Ok, if you're going to be doing a lot of loading and target shooting and just happen to be hunting with the same gun, I would recommend staying with a 6.5 cartridge over any of the 30 caliber options, the 270 is a great cartridge, it just doesn't have quite the bullet selection of the 6.5mm or 30 cal. and going from here I would consider if you're going to be doing a lot of shooting I would then look at brass availability and price of brass, and here in the 6.5 category the Creedmoor has the widest selection and availability. back to the 6.5 vs 30s I recommend the 6.5 because no matter how much you think recoil doesn't bother you, after a range day of 300 rounds shooting a 300WM, 30-06, or even just a .308 Win you may feel physically fine but you will more than likely find that your less steady behind the gun, just enough to where if you're shooting different loads and experimenting it can throw off your groups just enough to skew your data. As far as guns you mentioned go, I have both long and short action savages in both round action and axis, Remington 700s, Ruger American (predator), and out of just that group the ruger is by far my favorite, ruger offers the predator in slightly faster than average twist rates, and the little gun flat our shoots. And Remington rifles stock barrels just have stupid slow twist rates that turn me off for most calibers. Right here I am going to add that I have no experience with Tikka and it doesn't really turn me on as much I just don't have a want for a non-american companys gun. I am not a fan of Weatherby for handloaders because their rifles lands are miles out and you can never load a bullet long enough to get close to them. I do personally love browning though, just about at the very top of the price range you have been speaking, but as of 2018, their web sight doesn't reflect it, but if you call them or go to a gun store that has new rifles they have updated all of their rifles twist rates, the new .284 (7mm rem mag & 28 Nosler) rifles have been moved to 1-8" twist and the creedmoor now has a 1-7" twist. Also the factory browning magazines can hold cartriges with bullets seated long enough to touch the lands.

Just a heads up, browning rifles are made in japan.

 

[pharmseller]

Wow. Who knew. Maybe that's why I didn't use the word significant.

My apologies, I must have misunderstood your point. Lots of stuff is measurable. I can think of, like, three things off the top of my head.

I recently learned that medical professionals can measure what percent of the blood volume in your left ventricle gets pumped out with each beat. It's called left ventricle ejection fraction, or LVEF. Pretty cool.




P

 

[ShawnSwanson]

Just a heads up, browning rifles are made in japan.

I am very well aware of that, actually why I said american company and not made in the a USA, its still an American company, and I didn't say I dislike tikka I just said I don't own one so I can not speak on them.

 

[eightyeight mag]

I am very well aware of that, actually why I said american company and not made in the a USA, its still an American company, and I didn't say I dislike tikka I just said I don't own one so I can not speak on them.

Pretty sure fn owns browning.
So technically they are a Belgium company.

 

[DirectDrive]

So to break the paralysis, just get a 6.5 Creedmoor in an action, twist rate and barrel length that you like.
(crap, I hope I didn't start a second round of paralysis)

Edit:
Avoid the low-budget 6.5 Creedmore.

 

[Alan12013]

So to break the paralysis, just get a 6.5 Creedmoor in an action, twist rate and barrel length that you like.
(crap, I hope I didn't start a second round of paralysis)

Edit:
Avoid the low-budget 6.5 Creedmore.

Bullet selection would be the dominating reason I'd get the 6.5 or other then 270. I haven't written down on paper all the bullet options per caliber of interest (but I hear it's there), just the 270. I've researched why people chose the rifles they did for competition shooting and why they didn't choose the 270. I have found some people on old forums that would come in top 5 often using a 270 in competitions. Also some people shooting nice groups with brux barrels and matrix or the other 2 heavy bullets. I doubt that I am going to be at competition level at 800 yards, worrying about an inch, but should do good enough for my liking and still have good fpe. If I went with a 270 I would limit my bullet selection to like 3 bullets and force my hand into new barrel for 1:8 twist, I understand that. I'll have to write down all the options for other calibers and see how it stacks up. While they might have a million bullets, I might only be interested in a handful. People sometimes make irrational choices, even professionals...

 

[DirectDrive]

6.5mm and 6mm dominate.

 

[Alan12013]

6.5mm and 6mm dominate.

I know. lol

 

[DirectDrive]

I know. lol

Well, quit fussin' around and buy a Creedmoor.

 

[Alan12013]

Well, quit fussin' around and buy a Creedmoor.

I most likely will when one I like pops up on classifieds or next time I'm at Cabela's and they have what I'm looking for. However if I do that, one day I might build a long range 270 that will impress people.

 

[DirectDrive]

The .270 would be OK if it was necked down to 6.5 and the Ackley Improved.

 

[pharmseller]

Creedmoor my hairy nether region. My 7mm-08 can shoot a 120 faster, a 140 faster, plus I can shoot 160s if I want.




P

 

[awshoot]

Wouldn't BC be the factor most relevant in that case instead of which shoots flatter? ...I need to read up more on BC, I'm not sure I know what it is exactly, I do know what I want it to mean lol. I am comparing a .308 to a .270 in my mind (centerfires) as I'm picturing watching a pellet that I have seen moving slow out of my 2240 airgun and on it's downward arch yet hitting the bulls eye at 55 yards in the wind while my NP2 airgun is still scorching the pellets at that range but no where near where I aimed. In that case the guns accuracy is the biggest factor at that range followed by the pellets- I assume BC- ability to 'buck' the wind. ...but in what instance is a bullet at xyz distance going to be more accurate when it's at a 20' drop in it's trajectory compared to one that's at a 10' drop with same distance and poa?

Here's some data (actually guestimates without measured velocity) using published max velocity values in the Hornady reloading book for the SST bullet manufactured for the .270 and for the SST bullet used for .308 and 30-06 (same bullet for these two), and the Hornaday Ballistic Calculator: Ballistic Calculators - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

The order of the following screenshots is .270, .308, 30-06. The faster velocity on the 30-06 overcomes a lower BC due to faster velocity -- all bullets fall at the same rate so it is really time of flight that matters for bullet drop, a bullet that can cover more ground horizontally due to velocity has a lower drop for a given distance. BC affects how quickly the bullet slows down but as you can see, the .270 and 30-06 have essentially the same bullet drop out to 500 yds because the 30-06 has more velocity to start with, while the .270 uses the velocity it starts with more efficiently. The .308 in contrast, has the velocity of a .270 and the BC of 308 caliber bullet and suffers from both deficits. I should have run these out to a thousand yards but I'm not going to redo the screenshots -- but way out there, .270 has dropped 306.1"; the .308 has dropped 400.6"; the 30-06 has dropped 339.5".

In the figures below it looks like the .270 beats the 30-06 in energy potential from about 200 yds on out because its higher BC allows it to retain more of the initial velocity than the 30-06. Under 200 yds, the 30-06 is the winner in energy delivery.

All of this is sort of mathmatical mast.... -- how the bullet itself performs on impact and whether it hits the spot it was supposed to hit is probably much more important than all this -- but it is sort of fun to play with these figures.

.270:

.308:

30-06:

 

[Alan12013]

Thank you for taking the time to do that! From what I've looked into that data is about what I'm seeing. I haven't looked into peek conditions for the other carteridges... but I have the 270 and it can do better then that with the right set up too. Saw several long range videos out to 1000. ... and here is the 6.5 creedmoor with sst:

 

[Alan12013]

Hypothetically if I were to go into a gun shop and order, say a savage 110 storm in 270wsm would they be able to fill the order? If so how long would it take? There are rifles I like, specifically Savages' models that I don't see used often.

 

[DeanMk]

Creedmoor my hairy nether region. My 7mm-08 can shoot a 120 faster, a 140 faster, plus I can shoot 160s if I want.




P

You should be able to push 175 grainers with no problem, too.


Dean

 

[pharmseller]

You should be able to push 175 grainers with no problem, too.


Dean

I could, but I think the sweet spot is 150 and under.




P

 

[DeanMk]

Yeah, but you could say that for any 7mm.
My mindset in that response is that, once upon a time, the Mauser was commonly loaded with the 175gr. bullet and it specs at 7000 cup LESS than the 7-08 round.
So if the Mauser can push it, no problem, it should be even more of a breeze for the -08.


Dean

 

[pharmseller]

Yeah, but you could say that for any 7mm.
My mindset in that response is that, once upon a time, the Mauser was commonly loaded with the 175gr. bullet and it specs at 7000 cup LESS than the 7-08 round.
So if the Mauser can push it, no problem, it should be even more of a breeze for the -08.


Dean