Gun recommendation help, and is the 270 underrated?

[pharmseller]

Okay, 130 out of a 270 at 3158, compared to 150 out of a .30-06 at 3056. These velocity figures are from Nosler online, max velocity listed.

.270 drop at 300, 400, 500: -9.8, -22.6, -41.9

.30-06, same distances: -10.7, -24.6, -45.4

So less than an inch at 100, 2 inches at 400, and 3.5 inches at 500.

I'm not seeing it.




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[JRuby]

I don't think anyone is saying the 270 is a bad cartridge it's got a lot of things going it for it. So does the 06. The advantage of one plays to weakness of the other. One will have more recoil because it pushes a heavier slug one has more speed. It comes down to what you value. I will take a heavier bullet so I lose some speed and I have more recoil. There are always trade offs.

 

[JRuby]

Okay, 130 out of a 270 at 3158, compared to 150 out of a .30-06 at 3056. These velocity figures are from Nosler online, max velocity listed.

.270 drop at 300, 400, 500: -9.8, -22.6, -41.9

.30-06, same distances: -10.7, -24.6, -45.4

So less than an inch at 100, 2 inches at 400, and 3.5 inches at 500.

I'm not seeing it.




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What dont you see or are trying to determine. I will take a 100fps less speed and get the increase in mass. Some feel different.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Let's look at it it slightly differently and take the B.C. into account for the same weight! Then compare wind deflection!

 

[pharmseller]

I've just never understood the .270. The trajectory argument is insignificant at best, and according to Chuck Hawks' recoil table the .270 130 grain has a recoil energy of 16.5, the .30-06 150 grain has a recoil energy of 17.6. So the recoil argument isn't much either. One of the most unpleasant rifles I've ever shot was my brother's model 721 .270. Sharp as heck.



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[pharmseller]

Let's look at it it slightly differently and take the B.C. into account for the same weight! Then compare wind deflection!

150 .270 BC is .496 (Partition), the 150 .30-06 is .435. No effective difference.




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[DeanMk]

1) I used to have a Remington 770 in 270 a long time ago. Back then I wasn't a paper puncher nor did I study the field of ballistics. I do remember my 300yd groups (the 1 time I shot it) looked better then my step dads savage axis 308 by a long shot. In retrospect I think I could have got some nice groups with that gun. Now I am a lot more into precision, I've just been shooting airguns. I'm now budgeted for a centerfire rifle. I was hoping to find some one that had experience with the differences in accuracy at 100yds between a Remington 700, Ruger American, bergara b-14, ,a savage 10, or anything hopefully under 1000 dollars? I want something scalable that I can eventually get a new stock, barrel, have a gunsmith true the action, etc. But I want to be able to shoot sub moa out the box with my hand loads too or maybe quality box ammo. I plan on doing my own hand loads and doing never ending (1+yr probably)experimenting to get everything where I want. I also will be doing a lot of bench shooting. I might take it hunting for anything less then an elk but the trade off for less recoil and overall range shootability leans towards the ladder. Any recommendations on exact rifle and chamber are appreciated. I'm for some unexplainable reason attracted to smaller calibers like a 22-250 but .270 is my favorite. I like ARs but am wanting a standard bolt action gun.

2) I feel that the .270 is underrated or at least not talked about as much as it should be. I've bought several shooting and hunting magazines over the past year and have found 1 article that mentioned a 270 in periphery. Not 1 article talked about bullet choice, reloading, or ballistics of a .270. Every magazine seems to talk non stop about 6.5 creedmoore, 6.5PRC, other 6mm, some times a .243(one of my favs), 224valkrye, 22 nosler, 308, 338lapua. Anything AR I guess too. I feel like the .270 can hold it's own with long range target shooting and would be a more viable option for hunting too at a distance for some one that mostly range shoots but sometimes takes it to the field. I know there is a ft/lbs measure of recoil that I'm seeing people talking about but in my real world talk, the recoil of my old 270 was extremely light in my opinion. It's bullets are somewhat long and pointy and if the manufactures wanted I think they could even improve upon current selection of bullets on bc. Even without that though, looking at the bc's it seems to compete with the 6.5 creedmoor and I feel that if I were handloading my rounds custom to my gun and I got it dialed in with accuracy that I'd have one heck of a long range hunter. Plus I could have rounds tailored towards varmit or big game. Just my thoughts, I'm on the airgun forums but decided to join here mostly to pose this question. Why is the .270 not talked about more in the BC articles, or at all.

Because its not the hip, groovy, kool round-of-the-week AND, you can't chamber an AK or an AR for one.
I hear ya, though. My dad had a Remington 725 with a Bushnell 3-9X scope on it chambered in .270.
He told me he used to pop seals with it when he was stationed at Tin City in Alaska.
He loved that rifle. Carried it until he was in his 50's. By then, he was more into more light weight rigs and set it aside when he picked up a model 94 at the local JC Penny's (remember when you could buy guns at JC Penny's?)
I've still got an RCBS press, a half a can of 4064 and a green box of Speer 130 grainers for that gun.
I see Browning chambers their AB3 bolt action in the .270. The "Composite stalker" version is under 7 lbs. and retails for under $700.


Dean

 

[JRuby]

I have had three 270 I gave them away to friends that have made good use of them I have decided that the 06 is more to my liking than the 270.

 

[Alan12013]

150 .270 BC is .496 (Partition), the 150 .30-06 is .435. No effective difference.




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Comparing the 130 to the 150 ballistically at 500 yards the 06 will have about 5 inches more of drop but still almost 100fpe more of power, I should have stretched the numbers out to a further distance but I am using data from above and not my own data that I gathered so can't say with confidence it's right. Because of the slightly higher BC the 270's bullet would still be flying faster even at 500 yards. I'm not really using the flat argument nor am I talking of hunting past 600 yards, Kodiak bear hunting, or trying to hit gongs at 1000+. I've never even fired a 30-06 but I can tell you my old 270 was nothing at all in "felt recoil" (again, not this measured recoil that pops up) or noise compared to my step dads 308. I'm just saying that I feel as though you can get 308 and 30-06 comparable hitting power while at the same time it feels and sounds more like I'm shooting something a lot smaller.

 

[Alan12013]

I have had three 270 I gave them away to friends that have made good use of them I have decided that the 06 is more to my liking than the 270.

I'm assuming you do have other guns though right? If I had, like some one mentioned earlier, a paper punching gun and another for hunting I'd probably put serious thought into a .308, 30-06 or a more esoteric caliber. I want just 1 gun for playing with loads and precision while retaining the option to hunt.

 

[pharmseller]

I've never even fired a 30-06 but I can tell you my old 270 was nothing at all in "felt recoil" (again, not this measured recoil that pops up) or noise compared to my step dads 308.

Are you suggesting the .308 recoils more than a .270? Must be a huge difference in stock design, then. IME a necked-down .30-06 kicks more than a cut-down .30-06.






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[Alan12013]

Are you suggesting the .308 recoils more than a .270? Must be a huge difference in stock design, then. IME a necked-down .30-06 kicks more than a cut-down .30-06.






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Yes a lot more. I had a Remington 770 in 270. I bought it new from a sporting good store about 6 years ago. At the same time my step dad bought a savage axis in 308. When we took it out mine recoiled where I barely noticed it as far as effecting my shooting fundamentals, and was less loud. This was 6 years ago and my memory could be misleading me but I could swear.. His would probably make me focus a hell of a lot more on trigger pull follow through and not to worry about the bang. I know when I'm sitting here thinking about a 308 round then the stepped down 30-06 round of the 270 it doesn't make too much sense but I am certain his gun was louder and kicked a lot harder.

 

[pharmseller]

Stock design, rifle weight, and sissy pad construction all play a part in felt recoil. All things being equal the .308 should kick less. It's not apples to apples, though, since the rifles were different.




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[JRuby]

I'm assuming you do have other guns though right? If I had, like some one mentioned earlier, a paper punching gun and another for hunting I'd probably put serious thought into a .308, 30-06 or a more esoteric caliber. I want just 1 gun for playing with loads and precision while retaining the option to hunt.

The old saying comes to mind "more than I need not as many as I want"

 

[Alan12013]

I'm almost to paralysis by analysis, especially when I look outside the 270 and towards the 6 and 6.5mms. As long as I buy something before the summer I'll be happy. The tikka is growing on me and I've seen them on YouTube doing very well and receiving great reviews. I like all that I've looked into from most savage models(especially if I buy new plus I like their looks), rem700, and tikka(also nice looking). I'm not set on this idea but right now I am doing a lot of research on the 270 win and wsm (my interest in the 270 is fueling my research which is a good thing). Right now I'm thinking: buy a new rifle and work out my loads for it with the bullets I like, or: buy a used rifle for cheap and put an aftermarket barrel on it that I can custom for a 270 to use the Matrix long range 165gr VLD bullets or the 170 EOL Elites, probably a 1:8 twist. It all seems like overkill considering I have no desire to shoot past 100 yards until I can shoot very well at that range and learn how to shoot at angles, but once I got to (if ever) the point of stretching things out here in the clear cuts, I'd have already spent countless hours getting the loads worked out.

 

[JRuby]

Take a look at the weatherby vanguard 2s
I think there is a lot of rifle. I bought a s2 in 308 and like the rifle. It is one of my only non crf bolt rifles.

 

[Goosebrown]

150 .270 BC is .496 (Partition), the 150 .30-06 is .435. No effective difference.




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That's more than 10%. That's not huge but it's measurable

 

[DeanMk]

I'm assuming you do have other guns though right? If I had, like some one mentioned earlier, a paper punching gun and another for hunting I'd probably put serious thought into a .308, 30-06 or a more esoteric caliber. I want just 1 gun for playing with loads and precision while retaining the option to hunt.

6mm x 47.
Basically, a .222 Remington Magnum necked up to 6mm.
Back in the 70's it was a popular target load. Never produced commercially, as far as I've ever been aware.


Dean

 

[pharmseller]

That's more than 10%. That's not huge but it's measurable

Measurable is not synonymous with significant.



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[ShawnSwanson]

Ok, if you're going to be doing a lot of loading and target shooting and just happen to be hunting with the same gun, I would recommend staying with a 6.5 cartridge over any of the 30 caliber options, the 270 is a great cartridge, it just doesn't have quite the bullet selection of the 6.5mm or 30 cal. and going from here I would consider if you're going to be doing a lot of shooting I would then look at brass availability and price of brass, and here in the 6.5 category the Creedmoor has the widest selection and availability. back to the 6.5 vs 30s I recommend the 6.5 because no matter how much you think recoil doesn't bother you, after a range day of 300 rounds shooting a 300WM, 30-06, or even just a .308 Win you may feel physically fine but you will more than likely find that your less steady behind the gun, just enough to where if you're shooting different loads and experimenting it can throw off your groups just enough to skew your data. As far as guns you mentioned go, I have both long and short action savages in both round action and axis, Remington 700s, Ruger American (predator), and out of just that group the ruger is by far my favorite, ruger offers the predator in slightly faster than average twist rates, and the little gun flat our shoots. And Remington rifles stock barrels just have stupid slow twist rates that turn me off for most calibers. Right here I am going to add that I have no experience with Tikka and it doesn't really turn me on as much I just don't have a want for a non-american companys gun. I am not a fan of Weatherby for handloaders because their rifles lands are miles out and you can never load a bullet long enough to get close to them. I do personally love browning though, just about at the very top of the price range you have been speaking, but as of 2018, their web sight doesn't reflect it, but if you call them or go to a gun store that has new rifles they have updated all of their rifles twist rates, the new .284 (7mm rem mag & 28 Nosler) rifles have been moved to 1-8" twist and the creedmoor now has a 1-7" twist. Also the factory browning magazines can hold cartriges with bullets seated long enough to touch the lands.