National Form 1 or Not to Form 1?

[arakboss]

My Firearm project thread has diverted into a BATF Form 1 fan club thread. I am hoping the Form 1 discussion will move to this thread so my Firearm project thread can get back on topic.

My position on everything BATF is it shouldn't be happening. The BATF is going above and beyond to restrict our firearm freedoms by creating rules and regs inside their agency. Not cool and I will only send them money as a last resort. At this point I would rather donate money to Soros.

As for the value of getting a tax stamp for an Anderson/Aero lower receiver, so it can be used in a SBR config, it's not worth it to me. I would rather use some other legal short barrel configuration that doesn't require me to send $200 to the same thugs who seemingly come to work everyday to dream up new ways to screw us over.

IMHO, a $10 plastic stock serves less than a $200 purpose to me on a short barrel firearm.

For those who have Form Oned a receiver for SBR build and paid the $200, why did you do it? Fear, laziness, no other legal method of acheiving your desired outcome for the firearm or another reason?

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[TTSX]

Why do you buy insurance? Fear, laziness, no other legal method to achieve your desired outcome?

 

[arakboss]

Why do you buy insurance? Fear, laziness, no other legal method to achieve your desired outcome?

Form 1 SBR = Insurance? What would you be insuring?

 

[TTSX]

Insuring against spending a long time in federal/state prison, losing my 2A rights and paying a ton of money should something go sideways and my form 1/4 happens to get checked. Odds are, nobody will ever ask to see my forms and I could go my whole life with unregistered suppressors, SBRs and MGs without the law ever slapping my nuts. However, should the law find me backed into a corner, I'd sure like to have a $200 piece of paper that keeps me on the good side of the bars.

Just the same as if my house burns down or I get in a wreck, I'd sure be glad to have a piece of paper I pay waaaay more than $200 for, multiple times per year that says it's someone else's problem now even though I'll likely go my entire life without needing either.

So yes, I view all my tax stamps as insurance policies. Do I like the law? No. I am, however, subject to them and the punishments that come with should I choose to ignore them

 

[arakboss]

Insuring against spending a long time in federal/state prison, losing my 2A rights and paying a ton of money should something go sideways and my form 1/4 happens to get checked. Odds are, nobody will ever ask to see my forms and I could go my whole life with unregistered suppressors, SBRs and MGs without the law ever slapping my nuts. However, should the law find me backed into a corner, I'd sure like to have a $200 piece of paper that keeps me on the good side of the bars.

Just the same as if my house burns down or I get in a wreck, I'd sure be glad to have a piece of paper I pay waaaay more than $200 for, multiple times per year that says it's someone else's problem now even though I'll likely go my entire life without needing either.

So yes, I view all my tax stamps as insurance policies. Do I like the law? No. I am, however, subject to them and the punishments that come with should I choose to ignore them

I guess one man's insurance is another man's extortion. I view manadatory liability vehicle insurnace in the same way. If I don't pay, the government threatens me with jail, fines, loss of property. I don't like paying it but I do because I see some value in it and I haven't found a legal way around it (yet). $200 tax stamp is pure extortion and provides no value other than to try and keep the extortionist from locking you up.

 

[TTSX]

I guess one man's insurance is another man's extortion. I view manadatory liability vehicle insurnace in the same way. If I don't pay, the government threatens me with jail, fines, loss of property. I don't like paying it but I do because I see some value in it and I haven't found a legal way around it (yet). $200 tax stamp is pure extortion and provides no value other than to try and keep the extortionist from locking you up.

Potayto, potahto

 

[papersoldier]

My position on everything BATF is it shouldn't be happening. The BATF is going above and beyond to restrict our firearm freedoms by creating rules and regs inside their agency. Not cool and I will only send them money as a last resort. At this point I would rather donate money to Soros.

[...]

For those who have Form Oned a receiver for SBR build and paid the $200, why did you do it? Fear, laziness, no other legal method of acheiving your desired outcome for the firearm or another reason?

I generally agree with your assessment of the ATF (and the NFA itself) here, and I also hate having to give money to them to exercise the rights I already hold as an American citizen, but I do it just to keep out of the pokey.

The only gun I've ever felt the need to actually submit a Form 1 for is my vz. 61, for a few reasons: I consider it to be pretty useless as a pistol due to its size, putting a brace on it makes it very unwieldy and dumb looking (personal opinion on that second part, of course), and I really love the look and feel of the original wire folding stocks. Every other firearm I want to use in a short barreled configuration I just keep as a pistol, since function is pretty much the same whenever I incidentally shoulder a brace.

So, to directly answer your question from your given list of reasons, I'd say that my reasoning for completing a form one on this receiver was definitely because it was my only legal way to do it. Given the choice between paying Uncle Sam $200 and going to prison to make a statement protesting a dumb law, I'd probably always choose the former.

 

[Red98422]

With braces being as prolific as they are it's becoming more and more difficult (for me at least) to justify going through the dog and pony show of a form 1 for SBRs, outside of nostalgic/aesthetic reasons of course.

I have myself an out because a SBR lever gun with a suppressor is still a bucket list item

 

[arakboss]

Something also to keep in mind. If the State comes for your firearms, having a tax stamp won't necessarily save you from the State restrictions. It may lead to the State knowing who has what since anti-gun Feds will have little reason not to share that info with the State. That is why Connecticut residents have to settle for "Firearms" as opposed to pistols or registered SBRs.

 

[arakboss]

With braces being as prolific as they are it's becoming more and more difficult (for me at least) to justify going through the dog and pony show of a form 1 for SBRs, outside of nostalgic/aesthetic reasons of course.

I have myself an out because a SBR lever gun with a suppressor is still a bucket list item

That will likely change in August. There will be a lot more pistol owners who are going to have some decisions to make. One crowd will be pushing them to fund the ATF with $200 a pop tax stamps and another crowd will be pushing them to legally innovate around the braced pistol ban. I will be in the latter group.

 

[TTSX]

Something also to keep in mind. If the State comes for your firearms, having a tax stamp won't necessarily save you from the State restrictions. It may lead to the State knowing who has what since anti-gun Feds will have little reason not to share that info with the State. That is why Connecticut residents have to settle for "Firearms" as opposed to pistols or registered SBRs.

The state already knows. They know your your johnson size, the adult entertainment you prefer, your CC numbers. It's way past 1984

 

[papersoldier]

The state already knows. They know your your johnson size, the adult entertainment you prefer, your CC numbers. It's way past 1984

Heck, it's not even only the State that knows - all the major corporations in the information/tech sector probably know everything about (most) everyone. Uncle Sam could just ask Google and Meta for a list of firearm owners so they could crosscheck their own list.

 

[Member 53328]

I guess one man's insurance is another man's extortion. I view manadatory liability vehicle insurnace in the same way. If I don't pay, the government threatens me with jail, fines, loss of property. I don't like paying it but I do because I see some value in it and I haven't found a legal way around it (yet). $200 tax stamp is pure extortion and provides no value other than to try and keep the extortionist from locking you up.

I'm getting tired of you calling it extortion. It's no more extortion than what you are doing to stay in your lane of following the law or building projects for POTENTIAL laws that haven't even passed yet. It amazes me how fast gun owners and "patriots" just start rolling over, selling, removing, altering, etc. in fear of a potential law or definition that may change or get altered. Whether it be this, welding front take down pins, mag bans, etc. It's pathetic.

Any argument against a form 1 is BS. Do I agree you should have to pay. NO. But 200 dollars is a drop in the bucket when you look at a quality build (not some Chinese or PSA). If you don't want anSBR that's fine but don't blame it on a 200 dollar tax stamp. If you bought a gun or have a CHL you're already on a "list." If it's laziness just say it. Good lord, the fear of gun owners boggles my mind. I'm glad it's not this demographic that was standing up to Great Britain. We would have never made it.

 

[Kruel J]

I'm getting tired of you calling it extortion. It's no more extortion than what you are doing to stay in your lane of following the law or building projects for POTENTIAL laws that haven't even passed yet. It amazes me how fast gun owners and "patriots" just start rolling over, selling, removing, altering, etc. in fear of a potential law or definition that may change or get altered. Whether it be this, welding front take down pins, mag bans, etc. It's pathetic.

Any argument against a form 1 is BS. Do I agree you should have to pay. NO. But 200 dollars is a drop in the bucket when you look at a quality build (not some Chinese or PSA). If you don't want anSBR that's fine but don't blame it on a 200 dollar tax stamp. If you bought a gun or have a CHL you're already on a "list." If it's laziness just say it. Good lord, the fear of gun owners boggles my mind. I'm glad it's not this demographic that was standing up to Great Britain. We would have never made it.

Well said.

@arakboss you're talking out of both sides here. Making threads about neutering firearms/accessories based on a bunch of "what ifs" then stating how against the NFA and "extorsion" you are. It doesn't make sense and frankly it's become almost comical to me. You want to stick it to the man in one breath then you're ready to chop up your legally purchased possessions at the first sign of a new PROPOSED INITIATIVE.

Do whatever you want. But another thread on whether to Form 1 or not because you didn't like the comments in your OTHER thread? Welcome to the internet.

 

[Hueco]

I'll be making the decision to SBR my current AR-9 at a later date...maybe July/August time frame. The primary reason for the delay in deciding is an upcoming move. My family is out of here as of June (ish) and we won't know where for another few weeks. Such lis life where school is concerned.

I will have a Form 4 that I'll be traveling with, and so will have to go through that rigamarole for it...I simply don't want to have to do that for a Form 1 as well. Just don't see the point.

When we get to where we're going, I may Form 1 it. I'm not a huge fan of the pistol brace and would much prefer a tight fitting stock with a better cheek weld...my current build is an 8" barrel but I'm also thinking of going down to 4" or so and adding a can...my reason for the Form 1 is simple: to stop having to think about it. Whatever stock, upper length or configuration, whatever optic...it's all good on a Form 1. Opening up that to my whims is worth it for me.

 

[arakboss]

I'm getting tired of you calling it extortion. It's no more extortion than what you are doing to stay in your lane of following the law or building projects for POTENTIAL laws that haven't even passed yet. It amazes me how fast gun owners and "patriots" just start rolling over, selling, removing, altering, etc. in fear of a potential law or definition that may change or get altered. Whether it be this, welding front take down pins, mag bans, etc. It's pathetic.

Any argument against a form 1 is BS. Do I agree you should have to pay. NO. But 200 dollars is a drop in the bucket when you look at a quality build (not some Chinese or PSA). If you don't want anSBR that's fine but don't blame it on a 200 dollar tax stamp. If you bought a gun or have a CHL you're already on a "list." If it's laziness just say it. Good lord, the fear of gun owners boggles my mind. I'm glad it's not this demographic that was standing up to Great Britain. We would have never made it.

Extortion: the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats

Call it insurance or whatever you want but they are making a threat if you don't pay them. To me that is extortion.

You can try and justify what the BATF is doing all day long it won't change my mind.

 

[Member 53328]

Extortion: the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats

Call it insurance or whatever you want but they are making a threat if you don't pay them. To me that is extortion.

You can try and justify what the BATF is doing all day long it won't change my mind.

Do you have a CHL?

 

[Kruel J]

Extortion: the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats

Call it insurance or whatever you want but they are making a threat if you don't pay them. To me that is extortion.

You can try and justify what the BATF is doing all day long it won't change my mind.

So how can we change your mind that you don't need to weld your takedown pins or modify magazines to only hold 10 rounds based on some initiative proposed by a crooked pastor that hasn't even started gathering signatures?

Edited to add: Sorry about the run-on sentence.

 

[arakboss]

Well said.

@arakboss you're talking out of both sides here. Making threads about neutering firearms/accessories based on a bunch of "what ifs" then stating how against the NFA and "extorsion" you are. It doesn't make sense and frankly it's become almost comical to me. You want to stick it to the man in one breath then you're ready to chop up your legally purchased possessions at the first sign of a new PROPOSED INITIATIVE.

Do whatever you want. But another thread on whether to Form 1 or not because you didn't like the comments in your OTHER thread? Welcome to the internet.

Talking out both sides? I am not suggesting somebody break the law and build an SBR and not register it. I am suggesting that there are legal ways to get most of what the Form 1 would get you without having to financially support the BATF. There is a segment of the population that seems to have no problem supporting the BATF and in fact encourages others to support them.

If there is a legal way to avoid paying them and get most of what I want, then that's what I'll do. I would encourage others to do that as well. I have never seen so much love for the BATF as I have in the last 24 hours.

 

[Kruel J]

Talking out both sides? I am not suggesting somebody break the law and build an SBR and not register it. I am suggesting that there are legal ways to get most of what the Form 1 would get you without having to financially support the BATF. There is a segment of the population that seems to have no problem supporting the BATF and in fact encourages others to support them.

If there is a legal way to avoid paying them and get most of what I want, then that's what I'll do. I would encourage others to do that as well. I have never seen so much love for the BATF as I have in the last 24 hours.

It's not love for the ATF as you state. It's basic logic. They ARE going to ban pistol braces. Let's face it, everyone buys them to shoulder them...to get around the SBR stamp. So all we are saying is jumping through all these hoops to try and stay "legal" is a futile effort. Spend the $200 and then you can do WHATEVER you want with it.

I have never seen someone so hell-bent on staying "legal" yet so against the entity that comes up with these laws.