Church Pastor Threatened by Homeless Man

[DB is Here]

Matthew 5:39?

Turn the other cheek...then again we only have two cheeks.

@Stomper (This is where you'd say "What about your AZZ cheeks")

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

sounds like he had the opportunity to do bodily harm and you saftey was at jeopardy. you dont know his intentions until he announced it. did you stay in the car? i dont meant to sound like a big nancy but couldnt you have just drove to a different location and report it instead of confront the guy i'm thinking if you were IN your car and nothing was blocking you, then you had a way to leave the situation.....

yes, if youre not breaking the law, you have a right there. to me, its still unclear to me whether or not IN OREGON if we should stand our ground or try to leave the situation first.

as much as i wanna say yeah shoot that SOB. i just dunno.

 

[revjen45]

Bums (I refuse to use the ennobling term ("homeless") are bums because they like living like that. They don't want to "get off" of drugs/alcohol, etc. When offered "help" that involves exercising any degree of responsibility they say they prefer the lifestyle of a bum.
It's like feeding stray cats - the more you feed them the more there are.

 

[Joe13]

Bums (I refuse to use the ennobling term ("homeless") are bums because they like living like that. They don't want to "get off" of drugs/alcohol, etc. When offered "help" that involves exercising any degree of responsibility they say they prefer the lifestyle of a bum.
It's like feeding stray cats - the more you feed them the more there are.

That's a pretty ignorant view on the subject.

Most are there due to untreated mental illness and going from having nothing to getting on your feet is insanely hard, nearly impossible for someone dealing with obsticals like disabilities.

Top that off with the lack of funds and truely affordable housing and you wind up with a homeless population.

I've worked nights all over the Portland metro and now work next to a shelter, state mental health facility and hub for people with nothing but what they can carry. To date I have had Zero issue with any of them.

Treat them like human beings and they respond well. Treat them like 'bums' and they react most likely from embarrassment or frustration .


Honestly,I don't even see why this thread is here.... the OP was threatened.


I could go on but I doubt I'll change anyone's mind that thinks homeless people want that lifestyle. If you think it's a choice, try walking out your door and surviving with only goodwill cloths on for a week and let us know how you turned it around without resumes, references or resources.

 

[titsonritz]

Matthew 5:39?

I was thinking John 19:11

 

[titsonritz]

They do, but not with cash

I left that part out, you know how PG I am.

 

[Captain O]

It sounds as if the church has been overwhelmed with vagrants that are trashing the property. If this is the case, the attending person has every right to avoid being assaulted. Many of the "homeless" have drifted into a cycle of continuous drug use and mental/physical degradation/deterioration. (Masters of their own self-destruction).

I grow tired of the "pity party" conducted by the Left to enable these individuals to avoid taking responsibility for their own lives. This pattern established its roots during the 1960's and continues today under the guise of "compassion". As I said before, there are limits. This is their own way of "dosing the gene pool with chlorine".

Agreed?

 

[Fast Eddie]

WWJD?

Cast the evil spirit into a herd of pigs?

 

[RVTECH]

I am a caring and understanding person and will help nearly anyone if they truly needed it but all I typically see are shysters on the corners (some dressed better than I) with their standard 'homeless vet needs help' or the best so far was a guy and very pregnant girl on a center boulevard on a Main Street in Bend (very dangerous place) with the sign 'need help - baby soon' - what a great start - what's next ? Put a sign in the baby's hands that says 'newborn baby needs help' ? Then on the bottom rung are the dregs, the obvious meth addicts, alkys and the remaining degenerates. My point? I see very few that actually need help - and giving anything to them is only enabling. Don't get me wrong but 'doing it for God' sounds like a great excuse for being intimidated enough to actually hand over money.
I often read and hear 'flowery' stories of someone's encounter with a 'needy' person and they have a great conversation, how the person is genuinely needy due to some circumstances other than their own and money is handed over and the person goes and has a great meal and all is well - but no one seems to follow up and see what this person is doing the next day to improve their situation. I have a pretty good guess However......
It is my conclusion most 'homelessness' is self inflicted. I see the people with 'help needed' signs while 'help wanted' signs hanging on businesses are falling into tatters. So while aren't the presumably 'healthy' , and relatively 'normal' in appearance people holding signs not applying for the literally 100s of jobs that are going unfilled? (Heck even several at my company)
I think I have the answer for this also.....
As far as the others are concerned (the meth heads, mentally impaired, alkys etc) some of their appearances are nearing the inhuman and some seem to be loosing their ability to speak normally and babble unintelligibly.
In conclusion I have yet to see any in the categories I described display any positive life behavior and simply will never get anything from me.

 

[P7M13]

Read my post. We minister as much as we can to all who come and we go out and find the. The church, this church, has always been a spiritual battleground. Bible says so. Secondly, a 65 year old church member had his life altered mentally and physically just steps from my encounter. His skull was crushed. He walks with a walker. Homeless guy got one year in jail and was a repeat offender. Same place different encounter HG named Eric. Yes, I know his name and have talked to him. HG Eric went off and chased one of our young men around the building. How charming to think the HG would welcome tea or coffee brought to his bedside. The city has Whitebird and Cahoots. We taxpayers have non police help with those who don't want a cup of coffee. Glad you have one good story. Next time take the person to the eatery and sit face to face while they eat. Just saying it works. I do it. They don't need my money. They need my help. Those that accept receive. Ask a drug counselor if you should hand a potential addict cash? Some will say of course. Majority say, no way.

@galvweld, thank you for the programs you have at your church. Thank you for carrying.
Rereading, I can understand better why you reacted the way you did. Also seems, your church may be in the traffic path of homeless nomads.
Since your congregation does do social service and outreach to the homeless, might you consider giving lessons to your people on situational awareness, reading the people you are helping and self defense when it goes wrong.

As to the sleeping individual, a horn is a rude awakening. In my younger years, I would have probably woken spouting invectives too.
As you are probably aware, our everyday language is a reflection of that which surrounds us.
Regarding homeless, I help them when it feels right, and IMO you can tell when someone is truly in need vs. a shyster. Otherwise, I would have let the sleeping individual lie. When they wake up, that's when I would observe them. The sad thing I have observed is the conflict between marginal wages and housing costs. There's a clerk at a Plaid Pantry who cannot afford their own place, and thus couch surf at different friend's places. I consider that homeless, and if the job doesn't go well, the person is not far from destitute. It happens.

 

[Joe13]

One of the few times I've given a few bucks was years ago to a young 20's kid based only on his sign.

It read:

"I bet you can't hit me with a quarter".

It was so different that I couldn't help but chuckle a bit.



There is also a large population of homeless teens and early 20's kids. Sadly life on the street is better then life at home with abusive parents. I generally give socks, stocking hats (all picked up on clearance for pennies) and bottles of water in the summer.

I don't have much leftover after paying my own bills but there are some I would give to if I had the resources, others not so much.

Is it a solution? Not at all, but it helps them survive another day I guess.

 

[mkwerx]

I am a caring and understanding person and will help nearly anyone if they truly needed it but all I typically see are shysters on the corners (some dressed better than I) with their standard 'homeless vet needs help' or the best so far was a guy and very pregnant girl on a center boulevard on a Main Street in Bend (very dangerous place) with the sign 'need help - baby soon' - what a great start - what's next ? Put a sign in the baby's hands that says 'newborn baby needs help' ? Then on the bottom rung are the dregs, the obvious meth addicts, alkys and the remaining degenerates. My point? I see very few that actually need help - and giving anything to them is only enabling. Don't get me wrong but 'doing it for God' sounds like a great excuse for being intimidated enough to actually hand over money.
I often read and hear 'flowery' stories of someone's encounter with a 'needy' person and they have a great conversation, how the person is genuinely needy due to some circumstances other than their own and money is handed over and the person goes and has a great meal and all is well - but no one seems to follow up and see what this person is doing the next day to improve their situation. I have a pretty good guess However......
It is my conclusion most 'homelessness' is self inflicted. I see the people with 'help needed' signs while 'help wanted' signs hanging on businesses are falling into tatters. So while aren't the presumably 'healthy' , and relatively 'normal' in appearance people holding signs not applying for the literally 100s of jobs that are going unfilled? (Heck even several at my company)
I think I have the answer for this also.....
As far as the others are concerned (the meth heads, mentally impaired, alkys etc) some of their appearances are nearing the inhuman and some seem to be loosing their ability to speak normally and babble unintelligibly.
In conclusion I have yet to see any in the categories I described display any positive life behavior and simply will never get anything from me.

I have engaged in conversation with many a homeless person while working, and your conclusion is spot on. More than a few admit they can't hold a steady job, most admit they prefer being high and bumming thru life than being clean and responsible. They do what they feel they need to scrape a few bucks fir the next hit, the next bottle, or the next handfull of pills. Its 100% a choice, and I have not had one ask for help getting directions to a shelter, a job, or any self sufficiency resources. They will ask for money, some ask for food or something to drink. I do not engage with sign holding louts, but occasionally random dudes living or sleeping or killing time in random parking lots, parks, or sidewalks.

Giving money is enabling the problem. I will occasionally share food, or a give em a bottle of water if I have any. As much as I despise being hassled by aggressive panhandlers, I do have a softer human side and occasionally let it show. The ones I feel for most are dogs that a lot of these louts kerp with them. A dog with no where shady to rest while the owner trots him out to panhandle chaps my arse.

I wish the cops would do more to enforce no panhandling ordinances, or trespassing in the right of way on a highway.

 

[11Charlie]

There is good and bad in everyone. Not all homeless can help themselves. I think you start off nice and go from there. It is pretty simple.

Always be nice until it is time to not be nice.

 

[galvweld]

To all who commented and liked, I say a heartfelt word of appreciation. Wisdom gained is not wasted. So you might understand a bit more. I was homeless. I was a drunk. I used drugs. I went to jail. Am a 67 year old mess so it is much easier for me to understand and be compassionate. The homeless traffic does come our way and I am thankful for it, truly. We just trained our people using the ALICE training conducted by Lane County Sheriffs office. One more personal encounter. HG Eric was attending, being welcomed, fed, counseled. I found him asleep at another door. Called his name. He rose up and immediately his face was contorted, drool and foam came out of his mouth, a most terrifying voice said, as he arched his back while on all fours, the voice said, "I am not Eric, I am Satan." Been a pastor 40 years from Alaska to Georgia. Have a Bachelor's Degree and 3 advanced Degrees. No offer of coffee or a hug or counseling would have changed the situation. Ask me in private how I disarmed the situation. HG Eric was in church last Sunday. Swing by and I will show you the guest card where he says he hears voices and thinks highly he is the devil. This isn't play ground talk or bar talk. Real stuff in the real world.

 

[makmayne]

I had to hop out my car while I was waiting for my "fast food" as the man approached my vehicle I informed him that if he comes any closer I will be forced to bubblegum him up. I had my ccw but didn't feel the need for it as the man was clearly not right and I have skills so I wasn't too concerned. But it reminded me that you can't fight crazy with crazy, I try to avoid any situation that results in violence, but at the same time sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I am blessed that all it took was stern words and not anything else

 

[Captain O]

To all who commented and liked, I say a heartfelt word of appreciation. Wisdom gained is not wasted. So you might understand a bit more. I was homeless. I was a drunk. I used drugs. I went to jail. Am a 67 year old mess so it is much easier for me to understand and be compassionate. The homeless traffic does come our way and I am thankful for it, truly. We just trained our people using the ALICE training conducted by Lane County Sheriffs office. One more personal encounter. HG Eric was attending, being welcomed, fed, counseled. I found him asleep at another door. Called his name. He rose up and immediately his face was contorted, drool and foam came out of his mouth, a most terrifying voice said, as he arched his back while on all fours, the voice said, "I am not Eric, I am Satan." Been a pastor 40 years from Alaska to Georgia. Have a Bachelor's Degree and 3 advanced Degrees. No offer of coffee or a hug or counseling would have changed the situation. Ask me in private how I disarmed the situation. HG Eric was in church last Sunday. Swing by and I will show you the guest card where he says he hears voices and thinks highly he is the devil. This isn't playground talk or bar talk. Real stuff in the real world.

This is truly sad, but there are some people that just refuse to correct their lives or enjoy living in filth, bedbugs as well as their own body by-products (body odor, grime). Some revel in it. For these, I feel no kindness or desire to help. They make their own bed in life.

As for the mentally ill, we shut down the Oregon Mental Hospital during the 1980's and we now regret doing so. These are, for the most part, the individuals responsible for 80%+ of the street assaults. The rest are generally driven by drugs, alcohol, and greed. We are now paying for the short-sighted approach to the severely disturbed.

The man of which you speak needs to be institutionalized, but there is no longer a place for him. Social services are important, but people need to realize that not everyone is going to carry them through life. They have to make an effort to contribute to their own survival. There's no "Santa Claus" outside of the Government dole. This is what the Democrat Party (a.k.a. The Left) relies upon to fortify their numbers.

Sadly, some cannot be saved. Welcome to the real world. There aren't any "quick fixes" just hard choices. Some are healthy enough to survive, some aren't. It sounds as if Eric may not survive much longer.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

I am a caring and understanding person and will help nearly anyone if they truly needed it but all I typically see are shysters on the corners (some dressed better than I) with their standard 'homeless vet needs help' or the best so far was a guy and very pregnant girl on a center boulevard on a Main Street in Bend (very dangerous place) with the sign 'need help - baby soon' - what a great start - what's next ? Put a sign in the baby's hands that says 'newborn baby needs help' ? Then on the bottom rung are the dregs, the obvious meth addicts, alkys and the remaining degenerates. My point? I see very few that actually need help - and giving anything to them is only enabling. Don't get me wrong but 'doing it for God' sounds like a great excuse for being intimidated enough to actually hand over money.
I often read and hear 'flowery' stories of someone's encounter with a 'needy' person and they have a great conversation, how the person is genuinely needy due to some circumstances other than their own and money is handed over and the person goes and has a great meal and all is well - but no one seems to follow up and see what this person is doing the next day to improve their situation. I have a pretty good guess However......
It is my conclusion most 'homelessness' is self inflicted. I see the people with 'help needed' signs while 'help wanted' signs hanging on businesses are falling into tatters. So while aren't the presumably 'healthy' , and relatively 'normal' in appearance people holding signs not applying for the literally 100s of jobs that are going unfilled? (Heck even several at my company)
I think I have the answer for this also.....
As far as the others are concerned (the meth heads, mentally impaired, alkys etc) some of their appearances are nearing the inhuman and some seem to be loosing their ability to speak normally and babble unintelligibly.
In conclusion I have yet to see any in the categories I described display any positive life behavior and simply will never get anything from me.

What you are seeing is another result of a lack of mental health care facilities. That is, another result besides mass shootings. In about 1970 we closed our mental hospitals and turned the patients out on the streets. We saved a ton of money for the conservatives, and we made a lot of social justice crusaders feel lots better about the dignity and rights of the mentally ill. But there was an unforeseen cost for that. Homelessness and particularly gruesome crimes skyrocketed.

This is why I have zero patience with the anti-gun crowd hijacking the conversation when it comes to mass shootings and what to do about them. We can't even begin to talk about the roles played by mental illness and hopelessness, and remedies for those situations without being accused of being murderous, nazi, gun nuts. There are solutions out there that would work, but we can't implement them because we're too busy arguing with people like Penny Okamoto and Diane Feinstein about guns. You cannot reason with these people because fear of guns is a mental illness, and a religion.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

As for the mentally ill, we shut down the Oregon Mental Hospital during the 1980's and we now regret doing so. These are, for the most part, the individuals responsible for 80%+ of the street assaults. The rest are generally driven by drugs, alcohol, and greed. We are now paying for the short-sighted approach to the severely disturbed.

Exactly why we have most of the homeless, and nearly all of the mass shootings.

 

[makmayne]

OP quoted "The devil goes to church too"

May want to consider the devil preaches at church too; Joel Osteen, Keneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Rick Warren...all sell outs, and these are just a fraction of the visible ones. A large church out in Happy Valley just had their pastor of many years, leave so him and his wife could focus on their multi-level marketing and John Maxwell leadership scam courses.

But...we can know a tree by its fruit

Church is in the heart

 

[galvweld]

Update on HG homeless guy named Eric. In church Sunday. Stayed start to finish. Indicated in writing plans to attend a church wide picnic 6 June. I called Eric by name and receive a smile and handshake. There you go.

Other HG seems to be been a man of integrity. Custodians notified me of a broken window. Could be some other stalwart, but the window was right next to the spot the HG pitched a tantrum. Nonetheless we are still open for business and I carried all day while at church. That is a first to be with the people and exercising my 2nd Amendment of a blessed Memorial Day weekend. Thank God for soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen.