AR-PCC

[bradsteen]

The main issue with AR PCCs in my opinion is that stupid buffer tube - it adds a ton of unnecessary length to what should be a compact platform, so I definitely would recommend exploring bufferless options.

Another thing to consider is most PCCs are straight blowback, so you have a heavy reciprocating mass of metal slamming back and forth. It's not a huge problem, but definitely noticeable when you shoot, and the bigger the caliber, the more you notice it. If you want a really enjoyable shooting experience I would look into delayed roller lock systems, though I haven't seen them for anything besides 9mm.

When you say you want a "system", I assume you are referring to interchangeable uppers of various calibers and lengths, and the ability to convert from one mag type to another. As stated above you're basically limited to 9mm/40/357 or 45/10mm. I don't know of any AR-based system that allows jumping between those two except running a standard AR lower with magwell adapters for different calibers - that would allow you to go from 9 to 45, but would definitely not have the cool, sleek look you're after.

I would recommend sticking within a single caliber to ensure consistency and reliability - converting from one mag to another can be iffy already from a reliability standpoint, so I would avoid adding additional complexity into it by having to manage differences in caliber.

Your next question is what mags you want it to run. 9mm obviously has the broadest variety of mags available. I like the interchangeability of Glock mags because I have Glock pistols, but they have ones out there for Sig, M&P, Beretta, etc. if you're looking for more traditional curved mags they do make lowers that take CZ Scorpion or MP5 mags. I don't have any experience with them so I can't say how they run, but I know they're out there.

In 45 and 10mm the options are slimmer. If you're thinking about 10mm, it's probably safe to assume you're going to be running Glock 20 mags. In 45 there are a few pistol and SMG options - Glock 21,1911, M&P, Grease Gun, and UMP / USC are all out there, plus others I'm sure.

Hope this helps, looking forward to seeing what you choose!

 

[Nosferatu]

Not sure what you consider nonsense, but Kel-Tec is well known for having innovative designs that lots of people end up loving. They are also pretty well known for having issues with their gen 1 products, most notoriously the KSG. But since they are known as an innovating company they pretty quickly sort things out and gen 2 + are pretty solid platforms. I have several of their rifles, including one I specifically have set up for my life to depend on.

Settle down, you're getting all worked up over a mostly throwaway joke regarding the aesthetics of a company not known for hiring Italians to design their offerings.

You're the one who initially stated "If it looks silly I don't want it." Seems like you didn't mean it. I'm not here to "convince you otherwise". I could give a bubblegum. Beauty is in the eyes of the beerholder.

 

[Nosferatu]

The main issue with AR PCCs in my opinion is that stupid buffer tube - it adds a ton of unnecessary length to what should be a compact platform, so I definitely would recommend exploring bufferless options.

Yep, one of the things I like most about my MPX-K; the stock folds flat and the whole gun fits in a 15" laptop bag.

 

[KennVFRidr]

Ok, I am going to straight up admit I am being lazy here. I am pretty competent with AR-15 custom build work, I have a passing knowledge or AR-10 stuff, but I have never had the interest or time to look into the AR-PCC space. I figured I would ask about it here and see what people have to say before doing a deep dive on my own.

So starting with the most basic questions:

4. a cursory examinations leads me to believe they all run on Glock mags, are there other options out there?

As a final note, I am not horribly interested in AR-15 PCC conversions. I think the tiny stick mag out of the rifle mag well looks silly and I am a self conscious, tiny egoed snob. If it looks silly I don't want it (unless you can convince me otherwise).

A bit more info...

Olympic Arms made a 10mm upper for a standard AR lower using either their old design mag well adapter and I think Grease Gun mags, or their newer 18 round proprietary (polymer?) magazine. (you might find one somewhere but Olympic Arms is still gone I believe) It is a blowback design, and I have mine running on an Angstadt Arms 1045 Glock mag lower...because I don't care for the large proprietary Oly Arms magazine.

For builders Angstadt Arms has their 0940 for 9mm & .40 caliber, or their 1045 for 10mm & .45 caliber upper/lower receiver sets. As a 10mm fan, I snagged the 1045 set... https://angstadtarms.com/product/1045-receiver-set-for-glock/. ...and had a 10mm DI SBR upper built for me.

The magazines for comparison sake are: left to right Oly Arms 18 round, standard 30 round, standard 20 round, and 20 round Glock 20.

 

[lucusloc]

Ok, I found a good deal on a CMMG Banshee Mk10. Now I am trying to find out if that lower will fit their .45 upper, or if the magwells are not the same. Their Banshee platform is not uniform, so I already know that just because it says it is a Banshee upper it will not fit every Banshee lower. I am just trying to sort out if the .45 and 10mm uppers are compatible with the same lower. I have already emailed their support, but it has been a week with no answer. Time to find out if anyone over here knows anything.

I went with the CMMG because it does seem like they are easier on brass than pure blowback carbines. I do reload when I have the time, so something taht will extend the life of the brass is appreciated. I am aware of the case bulge issue, so I will be trying out different brands of brass to figure out which ones can handle the lesser chamber support.

The one I got is already registered as an SBR, so it will be in transfer limbo for who knows how long. This means I have plenty of time to sort all this out. If I do not figure it out before then I will post an update when my rifle gets out of jail.

 

[Valley-Shooter]

If you want some good info about PCC, I suggest you look at Reddit AR9 forum. Lots of info over there and no negative comments. Just people wanting to build and learn how to make the carbines work.

 

[edzz]

Ok, I found a good deal on a CMMG Banshee Mk10. Now I am trying to find out if that lower will fit their .45 upper, or if the magwells are not the same. Their Banshee platform is not uniform, so I already know that just because it says it is a Banshee upper it will not fit every Banshee lower. I am just trying to sort out if the .45 and 10mm uppers are compatible with the same lower. I have already emailed their support, but it has been a week with no answer. Time to find out if anyone over here knows anything.

I went with the CMMG because it does seem like they are easier on brass than pure blowback carbines. I do reload when I have the time, so something taht will extend the life of the brass is appreciated. I am aware of the case bulge issue, so I will be trying out different brands of brass to figure out which ones can handle the lesser chamber support.

The one I got is already registered as an SBR, so it will be in transfer limbo for who knows how long. This means I have plenty of time to sort all this out. If I do not figure it out before then I will post an update when my rifle gets out of jail.

This link from CMMG may answer your question
compatible?

 

[lucusloc]

This link from CMMG may answer your question
compatible?

That indeed is the information I was looking for. They should put that in their FAQ section instead of on the blog. No wonder I could not find it. It seems I will need to pick up one of their complete .45 offerings at some later date.

 

[edzz]

That indeed is the information I was looking for. They should put that in their FAQ section instead of on the blog. No wonder I could not find it. It seems I will need to pick up one of their complete .45 offerings at some later date.

I'm sorry my post didn't provide the answer you were looking for, however I guess it provided the info you needed.

Their web site creates more questions than it answers.

 

[lucusloc]

I'm sorry my post didn't provide the answer you were looking for, however I guess it provided the info you needed.

Their web site creates more questions than it answers.

No worries, I blame the messenger and am good at holding grudges. Everything should work itself out and be fine in the end ;-)

It is a bit disappointing there does not seem to be any golden solutions for people looking for a really good, extensible PCC solution that can do a bit of everything. I would have loved to find an AR-15 or even AR-10 levels of compatibility and cross-cartridge support, but I guess the AR-PCC space is a few decades behind those other systems. I will keep my eye out and just enjoy these as a gun, not an entire platform.

In my forays into PCC space I have also cast my eye on the older historical arms. I knew about the Camp Carbine guns, for example, but I never really knew I wanted one before I started looking into it. Granted, I am not sure what I would do with one, but I bet it would be a blast for plinking if nothing else. I have been pretty dismissive of PCCs in the past, because there is not much they can do that something else can't do better. I have owned a few of the modern, stand-alone variants before and just never really felt they did anything for me. But I think I am coming around to them as just their own thing. They don't need to be the best at anything, they just have to be fun. Pews for the Pews sake, if you will. But I think we are moving way into the realm of philosophy here, which is a pretty good case of thread drift. . .