Budget Manual Loading AR15 Line Proposal For Bear Creek Arsenal.

[arakboss]

I am going to try and convince Bear Creek Arsenal to start a manual loading AR rifle line based on their side charging uppers. I want this line of rifles to be 50 State legal based on current restrictions.

These are some of the features or lack of, that I would like to see.

Standard lower receivers marked "multi cal" "straight pull bolt action"

Selector switch marking Safe, Manual.

No gas port hole in barrel.

No gas tube through-hole in upper.

Larger side charging handle.

Ball bearings to replace gas key on BCG.

These features should make this rifle 50 State legal?

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[arakboss]

Here is an Aussie version of what I have in mind. This one is not a budget rifle.

 

[arakboss]

Another Aussie version, I am beginning to think nothing is budget in AU.

 

[kmk1012]

I could get on board with a pump action, only because I like pump actions.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

These are popular in England, none of the ones I have looked at fit the definition of 'budget'.
I see a market for extended and angled "bolt handles"

 

[Will_White]

I am going to try and convince Bear Creek Arsenal to start a manual loading AR rifle line based on their side charging uppers. I want this line of rifles to be 50 State legal based on current restrictions.

These are some of the features or lack of, that I would like to see.

Standard lower receivers marked "multi cal" "straight pull bolt action"

Selector switch marking Safe, Manual.

No gas port hole in barrel.

No gas tube through-hole in upper.

Larger side charging handle.

Ball bearings to replace gas key on BCG.

These features should make this rifle 50 State legal?

Really all it needs is no gas port, and an extended side charging handle.

If there's no gas port nothing after the gas port matters. Bearings would be nice but not needed the action is plenty smooth without them and this is for a low budget.

 

[arakboss]

Really all it needs is no gas port, and an extended side charging handle.

If there's no gas port nothing after the gas port matters. Bearings would be nice but not needed the action is plenty smooth without them and this is for a low budget.

My desire for additional features or lack of semi features was to help overcome hesitation by FFLs who may be resistant to transferring them in ban states. Some of the "Assault Weapon" bans are not very black and white when it comes to convertibility, is that a word. The less convertible the rifle appears the greater the chance of an FFL transferring it. As long as the lower is mil-spec a buyer could gather other parts for semi conversion when in free state.

 

[Will_White]

My desire for additional features or lack of semi features was to help overcome hesitation by FFLs who may be resistant to transferring them in ban states. Some of the "Assault Weapon" bans are not very black and white when it comes to convertibility, is that a word. The less convertible the rifle appears the greater the chance of an FFL transferring it. As long as the lower is mil-spec a buyer could gather other parts for semi conversion when in free state.

Looking at it from BCAs stand point the more off the shelf parts the better, I don't think any FFL would have an issue transferring a manually operated AR that used a standard bolt and upper, if it didn't have a gas port in the barrel. For ease of manufacture and standardization of parts maybe putting a 9mm gas key instead would be better but not legally required. You have to think that in these ban states the market is essentially how do we disrespect the spirit of the law as much as possible without breaking the letter of the law.

 

[arakboss]

Looking at it from BCAs stand point the more off the shelf parts the better, I don't think any FFL would have an issue transferring a manually operated AR that used a standard bolt and upper, if it didn't have a gas port in the barrel. For ease of manufacture and standardization of parts maybe putting a 9mm gas key instead would be better but not legally required.

9mm gas key would be another great idea. It remains to be seen how FFLs will respond to something like this. Given that countries like UK and AU have access to them, with even stricter bans, it should be a reasonable sell in ban states.

 

[arakboss]

9mm gas key would be another great idea. It remains to be seen how FFLs will respond to something like this. Given that countries like UK and AU have access to them, with even stricter bans, it should be a reasonable sell in ban states.

I could test FFLs in Oregon to see if they would transfer one of my manual loading home builds to a WA resident?

 

[arakboss]

Looking at it from BCAs stand point the more off the shelf parts the better, I don't think any FFL would have an issue transferring a manually operated AR that used a standard bolt and upper, if it didn't have a gas port in the barrel. For ease of manufacture and standardization of parts maybe putting a 9mm gas key instead would be better but not legally required. You have to think that in these ban states the market is essentially how do we disrespect the spirit of the law as much as possible without breaking the letter of the law.

Since BCA manufactures their own barrels and upper receivers in house, it should be easy for them to delete gas port during barrel manf and gas tube hole in upper receiver too.

 

[TTSX]

Unless the lower was completely incompatible with semi AR parts, it wouldn't matter how you marked it. I have a stripped lower marked safe/fire/burst and "government only" from PSA as well as one that says FUJB. Just because a lower would say it's "manual" doesn't mean it works that way. I'm also not sure I see any market for this product at all unless laws get much, much more restrictive because it sounds like you're trying to sell a bolt gun that looks like an AR. Or a workaround to getting a "real" lower without the "real" paperwork.

 

[Will_White]

You're over thinking it, straight pull conversions already exist like the kalikey, it replaces the charging handle and gas key and that's it you don't even have to get rid of the gas system, switch to a standard BCG and you're back to semi-auto.

AR-15 Kali Key ERGO + BCG Bundle - Kali Key

AR-15 Kali Key ERGO Bolt-Action System (B.A.S.)+ BCG Bundle IN-STOCK. SAME DAY SHIPPING IF ORDERED BY 2pm PST. AR-15 Kali Key ERGO B.A.S. + BCG = Bundle and Save! The only solution of its kind on the market: This bundle comes complete with BCG (Black Nitride with MPI 5.56 Bolt) and Kali Key...

kalikey.com

 

[arakboss]

Unless the lower was completely incompatible with semi AR parts, it wouldn't matter how you marked it. I have a stripped lower marked safe/fire/burst and "government only" from PSA as well as one that says FUJB. Just because a lower would say it's "manual" doesn't mean it works that way. I'm also not sure I see any market for this product at all unless laws get much, much more restrictive because it sounds like you're trying to sell a bolt gun that looks like an AR. Or a workaround to getting a "real" lower without the "real" paperwork.

There are or will be some areas where an 18-20 year old can buy a manual loading AR but not a semi-auto version. They can not buy lowers separately from an FFL due to Fed age requirement. There are other reasons someone may want one. I don't expect there to be a big market but the entry cost for BCA would be very low to market this type of line.

 

[arakboss]

You're over thinking it, straight pull conversions already exist like the kalikey, it replaces the charging handle and gas key and that's it you don't even have to get rid of the gas system, switch to a standard BCG and you're back to semi-auto.

AR-15 Kali Key ERGO + BCG Bundle - Kali Key

AR-15 Kali Key ERGO Bolt-Action System (B.A.S.)+ BCG Bundle IN-STOCK. SAME DAY SHIPPING IF ORDERED BY 2pm PST. AR-15 Kali Key ERGO B.A.S. + BCG = Bundle and Save! The only solution of its kind on the market: This bundle comes complete with BCG (Black Nitride with MPI 5.56 Bolt) and Kali Key...

kalikey.com

Do you have a link to a company selling a rifle fitted with a kali key in all 50 States?

 

[arakboss]

Unless the lower was completely incompatible with semi AR parts, it wouldn't matter how you marked it. I have a stripped lower marked safe/fire/burst and "government only" from PSA as well as one that says FUJB. Just because a lower would say it's "manual" doesn't mean it works that way. I'm also not sure I see any market for this product at all unless laws get much, much more restrictive because it sounds like you're trying to sell a bolt gun that looks like an AR. Or a workaround to getting a "real" lower without the "real" paperwork.

BCA sells other products that would seem to have a limited market. 22-250 AR10 upper and 22wmr uppers. They had 243 ar10 uppers for awhile but I think they ditched those.

 

[Will_White]

Unless the lower was completely incompatible with semi AR parts, it wouldn't matter how you marked it. I have a stripped lower marked safe/fire/burst and "government only" from PSA as well as one that says FUJB. Just because a lower would say it's "manual" doesn't mean it works that way. I'm also not sure I see any market for this product at all unless laws get much, much more restrictive because it sounds like you're trying to sell a bolt gun that looks like an AR. Or a workaround to getting a "real" lower without the "real" paperwork.

It's not the lower that's an issue for the existing laws it's the action of the firearm, you can have half a dozen lowers with stocks and a pistol upper in the same safe, as long as you also have a rifle upper. Similarly you can have a bone standard lower if it's manually operated it doesn't matter if you could put a semi upper on if it's a bolt action it's a bolt action in the eyes of the existing laws.

There is an advantage to manual operation, you can remove the tail off the bolt and put on a folding stock or make a pistol without the tube hanging off.

Do you have a link to a company selling a rifle fitted with a kali key in all 50 States?

I don't know of anyone that sells complete rifles web a kali key equipped but Kali Key sells to all states and hasn't gotten a C&D. Unitah Precision sells to all 50 states but their system is different, it uses a standard lower but more traditional turn bolt action. I'm not sure how that's relevant, something either is manually operated or it's not. AW bans only apply to Semi-Autos.

 

[arakboss]

It's not the lower that's an issue for the existing laws it's the action of the firearm, you can have half a dozen lowers with stocks and a pistol upper in the same safe, as long as you also have a rifle upper. Similarly you can have a bone standard lower if it's manually operated it doesn't matter if you could put a semi upper on if it's a bolt action it's a bolt action in the eyes of the existing laws.

There is an advantage to manual operation, you can remove the tail off the bolt and put on a folding stock or make a pistol without the tube hanging off.
View attachment 1223010


I don't know of anyone that sells complete rifles web a kali key equipped but Kali Key sells to all states and hasn't gotten a C&D. Unitah Precision sells to all 50 states but their system is different, it uses a standard lower but more traditional turn bolt action. I'm not sure how that's relevant, something either is manually operated or it's not. AW bans only apply to Semi-Autos.

The idea is that if you live in a ban state and can only purchase a manual loading version, your current choices are very limited and expensive. If your age and State allows you to buy a lower separately, than you have lots of options. The rest of buyers could be a gained customer for BCA.

 

[arakboss]

It's not the lower that's an issue for the existing laws it's the action of the firearm, you can have half a dozen lowers with stocks and a pistol upper in the same safe, as long as you also have a rifle upper. Similarly you can have a bone standard lower if it's manually operated it doesn't matter if you could put a semi upper on if it's a bolt action it's a bolt action in the eyes of the existing laws.

There is an advantage to manual operation, you can remove the tail off the bolt and put on a folding stock or make a pistol without the tube hanging off.
View attachment 1223010


I don't know of anyone that sells complete rifles web a kali key equipped but Kali Key sells to all states and hasn't gotten a C&D. Unitah Precision sells to all 50 states but their system is different, it uses a standard lower but more traditional turn bolt action. I'm not sure how that's relevant, something either is manually operated or it's not. AW bans only apply to Semi-Autos.

The Unitah is a great option for ban states but the price.

 

[arakboss]

It's not the lower that's an issue for the existing laws it's the action of the firearm, you can have half a dozen lowers with stocks and a pistol upper in the same safe, as long as you also have a rifle upper. Similarly you can have a bone standard lower if it's manually operated it doesn't matter if you could put a semi upper on if it's a bolt action it's a bolt action in the eyes of the existing laws.

There is an advantage to manual operation, you can remove the tail off the bolt and put on a folding stock or make a pistol without the tube hanging off.
View attachment 1223010


I don't know of anyone that sells complete rifles web a kali key equipped but Kali Key sells to all states and hasn't gotten a C&D. Unitah Precision sells to all 50 states but their system is different, it uses a standard lower but more traditional turn bolt action. I'm not sure how that's relevant, something either is manually operated or it's not. AW bans only apply to Semi-Autos.

What is the bracket thing plugged into the charging handle hole? Is that your pistol?