AR-PCC

[lucusloc]

Ok, I am going to straight up admit I am being lazy here. I am pretty competent with AR-15 custom build work, I have a passing knowledge or AR-10 stuff, but I have never had the interest or time to look into the AR-PCC space. I figured I would ask about it here and see what people have to say before doing a deep dive on my own.

So starting with the most basic questions:
1. how standardized are AR-PCC lowers/uppers? I would imagine there is some, but probably worse than the AR-10 space?
2. are there a lot of proprietary models to be aware of?
3. does a standard (universal or proprietary) extend past cartridges? Can you swap a 9mm upper for a .45 upper, or are the mag wells largely caliber specific?
4. a cursory examinations leads me to believe they all run on Glock mags, are there other options out there?
5. what are some "you don't know you don't know" pitfalls getting into this space?
6. assuming I want a kit with the widest capabilities (most cartridge compatibility, greatest aftermarket support etc.) is there any brand/model/standard I should pick up to start with?

This whole line of questioning started off when I was pursing this forums sponsor and saw they had a 10mm AR-PCC, but I could not find anything on their site about further compatibility. If I decide to grab one am I just buying a gun or am I buying into a system. I am far more interested in buying into an extensible system, so pointers to that end are appreciated.

As a final note, I am not horribly interested in AR-15 PCC conversions. I think the tiny stick mag out of the rifle mag well looks silly and I am a self conscious, tiny egoed snob. If it looks silly I don't want it (unless you can convince me otherwise).

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[CamoDeafie]

@Alexx1401 could help out, he's a fan of PCCS if I'm thinking of the right member.

 

[Nosferatu]

If it looks silly I don't want it

Then you don't want one. The stupid handgun mag ones look like Hi-Point and Keltec tried a collaboration and eventually just said; "screw it, stick a Glock mag in there, who cares what the angle is".

 

[lucusloc]

Then you don't want one. The stupid handgun mag ones look like Hi-Point and Keltec tried a collaboration and eventually just said; "screw it, stick a Glock mag in there, who cares what the angle is".

I dunno, the BCA 10mm one looks pretty nifty. Also 10mm pews out of a 10 inch barrel are pretty gnarly. And Kel-Tec is pretty awesome, especially when they get to gen 2 or 3 of the product (you only get gen 1 of their products for bragging rights, not to have something that works). A lot of their stuff may not be all that practical, but that is a totally different argument. This is a hill I will die on.

 

[CamoDeafie]

10mm? Hard to beat HI Point 1095TS for cheap 10mm thrills.. also hard beat HI Point for being consistently one of the ugliest and heaviest guns out there

Although in the High Tower Armory bullpup stocks, they look a bit better... still wonky balance and not great triggers.

 

[Alexx1401]

Ok, I am going to straight up admit I am being lazy here. I am pretty competent with AR-15 custom build work, I have a passing knowledge or AR-10 stuff, but I have never had the interest or time to look into the AR-PCC space. I figured I would ask about it here and see what people have to say before doing a deep dive on my own.

So starting with the most basic questions:
1. how standardized are AR-PCC lowers/uppers? I would imagine there is some, but probably worse than the AR-10 space?
2. are there a lot of proprietary models to be aware of?
3. does a standard (universal or proprietary) extend past cartridges? Can you swap a 9mm upper for a .45 upper, or are the mag wells largely caliber specific?
4. a cursory examinations leads me to believe they all run on Glock mags, are there other options out there?
5. what are some "you don't know you don't know" pitfalls getting into this space?
6. assuming I want a kit with the widest capabilities (most cartridge compatibility, greatest aftermarket support etc.) is there any brand/model/standard I should pick up to start with?

This whole line of questioning started off when I was pursing this forums sponsor and saw they had a 10mm AR-PCC, but I could not find anything on their site about further compatibility. If I decide to grab one am I just buying a gun or am I buying into a system. I am far more interested in buying into an extensible system, so pointers to that end are appreciated.

As a final note, I am not horribly interested in AR-15 PCC conversions. I think the tiny stick mag out of the rifle mag well looks silly and I am a self conscious, tiny egoed snob. If it looks silly I don't want it (unless you can convince me otherwise).

I am a HUGE PCC fan boy. I am NOT any kind of expert on AR's but, have built a few in pistol caliber.
So from what I have seen so far:
Have an AR lower, all AR uppers just pin on. So yes you can have an AR lower and different caliber upper, IF, here is the big if, the lower has the mag well you need. So far the ones I built were 9mm Glock Mag lowers. You can buy adapters to turn a standard AR lower into one that will work with PCC uppers. I have one made by Stern that is supposed to be a good one. Just have not tried a build yet. So again there are AR lowers made to take a certain mag type, ie, Colt or Glock but you can make any AR lower work for this with the right parts.
I use Glock mags because I already had PCC's using them. Colt style is also popular and is different far as I can tell.
As for best? have no clue. I hear some saying one is better than others but from what I have seen any AR lower seems to work fine. If you buy one you can make a lot of different upper builds that will just pin onto the lower. The platform has been long called the "Erector Set" of guns. Those of us who were kids LONG ago understand what that means. There used to be a toy that allowed you to build all kinds of fun crap by that name and the AR is super easy to do this with.
Again there are a LOT of people here who know a LOT more about AR's than I. I did not start playing with builds until a couple years ago. Had owned a couple AR's long ago but had no idea just how easy the damn things were to build until I first tried my hand at it and was shocked at how easy it was.
As for the PCC uppers most are simple blow back instead of gas. Now some are making some nicer models that are different like Banshee. They are a whole different game and they are pricey but seem quite nice.

 

[Alexx1401]

10mm? Hard to beat HI Point 1095TS for cheap 10mm thrills.. also hard beat HI Point for being consistently one of the ugliest and heaviest guns out there

Although in the High Tower Armory bullpup stocks, they look a bit better... still wonky balance and not great triggers.

They have long been known as a ultra cheap PCC that just works. Many love to hate on them but, for those on a budget? The damn things just work. The proprietary mags are a real downside but, again the guns just work and have an amazing warranty. Company is known for bending over backwards to keep the customer happy.

 

[Alexx1401]

And Kel-Tec is pretty awesome, especially when they get to gen 2 or 3 of the product (you only get gen 1 of their products for bragging rights, not to have something that works). A lot of their stuff may not be all that practical, but that is a totally different argument. This is a hill I will die on.

This is another Co many seem to love to hate.
I first tried them decades back when my last 5 shooter .38 left with one kid striking out on her own. Went to buy another and sales guy talked me into trying the P-11. Price was so cheap I thought it had to be crap but he talked me into it. I still have it and still carry it. To this day it still impresses me that they can put 11 rounds of 9 in a package that light and small. Later when they announced the P-32 was coming I got on a waiting list for one. Took a month or so till my turn came up. I took it back to the range and by the time I came out to buy some more ammo got back on the waiting list for another. Still have those also. Sometimes use one for carry around the house.
Later bought an S2K in .40 and then one in 9mm for Wife. .40 was a beast to shoot as its so small and light. Finally re homed it but still have that early model 9mm and still impressed by it. Spent a lot of time riding in a laptop case, with a laptop in there too. No one gives it a second glance. Have no idea how many K rounds I have run through it. If it ever wears out I will be buying another of the new generations of it.

 

[solv3nt]

If you build your lower, make sure you use a FCG that's made for blow back operation or it will kill your trigger.

I have a Stern Defense mag well adapter so I can run Beretta 92 mags. It works great, but is almost $200.

Aero and Foxtrot Mike are probably the most popular AR9 manufacturers. I think the edge goes slightly to FM. If you want to spend more, go JP rifles.

If you're mixing and matching, make sure that both the upper and lower are Glock cut.



You should look at B&T.

 

[powermad]

I just used a regular lower and Endo mags.

 

[DirectDrive]

I like a purpose-built lower like this Angstadt :

Somehow they ease that "Glock grip angle" which I'm not a fan of.

I have a Quarter Circle 10 which has the purpose-built lower and mine is "Colt Pattern" and uses the modified Uzi steel mags.

You can buy parts from QC10 to build your own or buy a complete.
Several different "patterns" and chamberings available now.

 

[PiratePast40]

If you build your lower, make sure you use a FCG that's made for blow back operation or it will kill your trigger.

I have a Stern Defense mag well adapter so I can run Beretta 92 mags. It works great, but is almost $200.

Aero and Foxtrot Mike are probably the most popular AR9 manufacturers. I think the edge goes slightly to FM. If you want to spend more, go JP rifles.

If you're mixing and matching, make sure that both the upper and lower are Glock cut.

View attachment 1760227

You should look at B&T.

I went with FM and have been happy with my decision. I did try to go with a standard AR lower and a magwell adapter, but had quite a few problems. Bought the FM AR9 lower and it's working well. FM is in Boise and easy to work with if you have any problems. Don't know anything about Aero AR9's but have several of their AR lowers and have put some together for friends. Nothing bad to say about Aero at all.

 

[dmack]

They make different size pcc lowers. One fits 9 and 40. The 10 and 45 are larger, so my understanding is you can't put a 45 upper on a 9 lower.

Stern makes adapters for both. I have one to convert a regular AR lower to accept 9 and 40 glock mags. A friend has one to convert to S&W mp45 mags (they don't make a glock 45 model due to width problems). Both function well.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

If it were me I would opt for a roller delayed (or other delay such as radial delay) purpose-built pcc. Fe Mp5 clones from MKE are $1000 and are an absolute joy to shoot. No twang from the buffer, less recoil, much smaller platform due to telescopic or collapsible stock/brace (ie no buffer).

 

[Snip]

Bought an EPC upper and lower from Aero so I could build up what I wanted. I think they have the 10mm, but better check to make sure. Runs on Glock mags so it makes it easy.

 

[Nosferatu]

I dunno, the BCA 10mm one looks pretty nifty.

Does it use a Glock mag? If so, It's stupid. They probably double-down on the stupid with a 'brace'. Don't know who BCA is, so can't comment on that.

Also 10mm pews out of a 10 inch barrel are pretty gnarly.

I'm a big 10mm fan. Anything I'd be shooting at that requires a long barrel for more velocity out of a handgun, I'm taking my S&W 629 instead.

And Kel-Tec is pretty awesome, especially when they get to gen 2 or 3 of the product (you only get gen 1 of their products for bragging rights, not to have something that works). A lot of their stuff may not be all that practical, but that is a totally different argument. This is a hill I will die on.

Nonsensical gobbly-gook.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Does it use a Glock mag? If so, It's stupid. Don't know who BCA is, so can't comment on that.


I'm a big 10mm fan. Anything I'd be shooting at that requires a long barrel for more velocity out of a handgun, I'm taking my S&W 629 instead.


Nonsensical gobbly-gook.

Bear Creek Arsenal, maybe? Also a site supporter/vendor

 

[lucusloc]

Bear Creek Arsenal, maybe? Also a site supporter/vendor

Yeah, their little banner is at the top of every screen, and they are a sponsor for this specific section of the forum.

 

[lucusloc]

Nonsensical gobbly-gook.

Not sure what you consider nonsense, but Kel-Tec is well known for having innovative designs that lots of people end up loving. They are also pretty well known for having issues with their gen 1 products, most notoriously the KSG. But since they are known as an innovating company they pretty quickly sort things out and gen 2 + are pretty solid platforms. I have several of their rifles, including one I specifically have set up for my life to depend on.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I dunno, the BCA 10mm one looks pretty nifty. Also 10mm pews out of a 10 inch barrel are pretty gnarly. And Kel-Tec is pretty awesome, especially when they get to gen 2 or 3 of the product (you only get gen 1 of their products for bragging rights, not to have something that works). A lot of their stuff may not be all that practical, but that is a totally different argument. This is a hill I will die on.

Did you say "bragging rights" on a keltec? That's a joke right?