Am I the only one who things that flashlights on weapons are counterproductive?

[lucusloc]

I'm shooting at the light

From where? If we are within in-house distances I can see you better than you can see me. My shots will be faster and more accurate because I can see. Seriously, go grab some air-soft guns, mount a light to one and no light to another and see who has the advantage inside a house. Make sure you are running a realistic scenario, so at least one person should have the "no camping" rule applied. I think you will find a defender with a light is a might hard target to engage from the dark.

Again, yes, if this were maneuver warfare out in the woods or some urban environment a light can be a really bad idea in those circumstances. The enemy can see you, but the ranges are too great for the light to effectively reveal them. That's bad. If I ever put together a "militia kit" for Civil War II I will probably omit the light.

But for home defense kit? Yeah, a light is a mush-have tool. I get if someone does not have a weapon mounted light, maybe their plan is to turn on their nightstand light and bunker down behind the bed while they cover the bedroom door. But they are still going to need a light just for situational awareness. And that wall mounted light is going to be orders of magnitude less flexible than a mounted light which you can take with you if you need to move for some reason. If you have the option/budget to get a WML why would you not? I still want to know "how are you going to ID your target?"

 

[CamoDeafie]

Just have a directional FAA approved strobe aimed at the doors!

 

[DB is Here]

Having a light as in seeing what you're about to engage in the dark makes a lot of sense to me. Running with it on full time wouldn't make sense either.

If you've had to clear a room in the dark, I think your advice would lean towards having a tool to illuminate the potential threat.

Getting backlit in a doorway or hallway is the real problem.

 

[lucusloc]

Having a light as in seeing what you're about to engage in the dark makes a lot of sense to me. Running with it on full time wouldn't make sense either.

If you've had to clear a room in the dark, I think your advice would lean towards having a tool to illuminate the potential threat.

Getting backlit in a doorway or hallway is the real problem.

I am not sure why you would be "running" anything in a home defense scenario. That turns a really strong position (hunkered down and defending one spot) into a really hard position (trying to solo-clear a structure). At most my plan would be to move just enough to gather up everyone important to me and bunker down in the most defensible position we have, then call for backup while making sure hostiles know that no quarter will be given if they advance.

I am most definitely not going hunting, because that gives them the advantage (assuming they are actually spoiling for a fight, which would be. . . quite unusual to say the least).

I will sit there and let a team come clear the house if necessary (of course being sure to establish protocols for meeting said team when they arrive, by coordinating with dispatch about contact procedures. Call your local LEO if you have questions beforehand for what their protocols are for that.)

 

[arakboss]

You mean to tell me after all these years that perps don't freeze when you shine a light on them?

 

[Camelfilter]

Flashlights on weapons especially defensive weapons. . Rifles, pistols, shotguns. To me they seem counterproductive. Here I am , shoot at me. I wont use them. Just me?

No, not just you & that's fine!

However, everyone is different & everyone's home's/families & such are also different.

What works best for some, doesn't for others.

I'm in the WML camp, because they work for us. Are WML's mounted on everything we could & would use? No. They are mounted on a few "more likely" to be used tho...

 

[lucusloc]

No, not just you & that's fine!

However, everyone is different & everyone's home's/families & such are also different.

What works best for some, doesn't for others.

I'm in the WML camp, because they work for us. Are WML's mounted on everything we could & would use? No. They are mounted on a few "more likely" to be used tho...

I agree that everyone gets to run what they want, and that it is a personal choice. There is more to consider than just what is optimal. Things like cost come into play, as well as what your personal plan is.

What I take umbrage with is people spreading the misinformation that a WML is not a huge advantage in a home defense scenario. It really is. Comments like "I will just shoot at the light" bely an ignorance of the topic that should not stand. You will not "just shoot the light" because if you are coming into any decent WML from a dark room your whole world is now light. You are not using your sights because you cannot see your sights. At best you are going to pop off a few rounds in the general direction of the light, and that is assuming you do not have a photic reflex (like raising your hand or the hilarious photic sneeze) that delays an immediate relation. Meanwhile the guy with the light is playing the "aim small miss small" game because they have perfect visibility of the situation, what with not being directly in the beam and all. I am not taking bets who will usually come out on top of that situation because the answer should be obvious.

Yes, as discussed there are indeed times when a light is a huge disadvantage. But home defense is not one of those situations. Assuming that just because a light is bad in some situations does not mean it is bad in the situation most applicable to most everyone here.

It is not hard gain this experience for yourself either. All it takes is a few buddies willing to play nighttime air-soft shoothouse with you. It really is fun and lets you definitively prove for yourself if your preconceived notions hold any water at all.

 

[DirectDrive]

There's a LEO on another forum that uses a flashlight in his off hand.
One night a perp shot that flashlight out of his hand.
So there you go.

On a two-way range, don't put any vital meat behind your light.

 

[Xaevian]

Here we go again...

Some people prefer pointing their WML and also their guns those are attached to at things they haven't identified.

That doesn't work for me since I prefer to defend my house with more personal weapons like a combat axe even though I have plenty of firearms. I save those for bears. Wonder which is the best caliber for bear home defense?

Discuss.

 

[lucusloc]

Tnere's a LEO on another forum that uses a flashlight in his off hand.
One night a perp shot that flashlight out of his hand.
So there you go.

So much not answered in that comment. What kind of light? An actual WML grade beam or a little AAA firefly light? What was the environment? Indoors? Outside? What was the range? Under 10 feet, more than 30 yards?

If this was a suspect hunt I am assuming this is an outdoor scenario where ranges would exceed the effective range of the light, or offer angels that a super-bright light cannot fully cover. Those are indeed the exact situations where a light can be a liability. They are also not the type of situation you will find in most home defense scenarios, and so would not be applicable to such a discussion.

 

[Burt Gummer]

A weapon w/o a light, red dot/scope, grip tape, suppressor, long hanging mag, and a bunch of rails for other 'essentials' is just not for me.

 

[MTpockets]

I run the Clapper...

...attached to a quasar foyer lamp, and a LRAD 450XL that faces the door.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Here we go again...

Some people prefer pointing their WML and also their guns those are attached to at things they haven't identified.

That doesn't work for me since I prefer to defend my house with more personal weapons like a combat axe even though I have plenty of firearms. I save those for bears. Wonder which is the best caliber for bear home defense?

Discuss.

I have 2 rusty hammers in reach to repel boarders. If blunt force trauma don't getcha, maybe the tetanus will.

 

[Knobgoblin]

I run the Clapper...
View attachment 1836978
...attached to a quasar foyer lamp, and a LRAD 450XL that faces the door.

...get clapped muhfugga

 

[BrandonQuixote]

"It's your right to own a gun, but it's your responsibility not to shoot the wrong fuucking person".
If visual signature is your main argument, you better have a supressor and sub sonic ammo.
I'd argue positively identifying your target is crucial. Lights aren't just for night time, they work indoors too! They also have a psychological effect when they're shined in your eyes and you're yelled at. Ever been pulled over and the cops shine their spot light into your vehicle (and eyes). It's almost like seeing is the first step to anticipating and reacting.

 

[Nosferatu]

Have your wife or least favorite child hold the light.

 

[Capn Jack]

Here we go again...

Some people prefer pointing their WML and also their guns those are attached to at things they haven't identified.

That doesn't work for me since I prefer to defend my house with more personal weapons like a combat axe even though I have plenty of firearms. I save those for bears. Wonder which is the best caliber for bear home defense?

Discuss.

I would say that, "Bears" looking into.

 

[Alexx1401]

From where? If we are within in-house distances I can see you better than you can see me. My shots will be faster and more accurate because I can see. Seriously, go grab some air-soft guns, mount a light to one and no light to another and see who has the advantage inside a house. Make sure you are running a realistic scenario, so at least one person should have the "no camping" rule applied. I think you will find a defender with a light is a might hard target to engage from the dark.

Again, yes, if this were maneuver warfare out in the woods or some urban environment a light can be a really bad idea in those circumstances. The enemy can see you, but the ranges are too great for the light to effectively reveal them. That's bad. If I ever put together a "militia kit" for Civil War II I will probably omit the light.

But for home defense kit? Yeah, a light is a mush-have tool. I get if someone does not have a weapon mounted light, maybe their plan is to turn on their nightstand light and bunker down behind the bed while they cover the bedroom door. But they are still going to need a light just for situational awareness. And that wall mounted light is going to be orders of magnitude less flexible than a mounted light which you can take with you if you need to move for some reason. If you have the option/budget to get a WML why would you not? I still want to know "how are you going to ID your target?"

You will find it basically a waste of time to try to argue anything "sights" with many. All my life I have run across MANY who don't like laser, light, optic, ect. Saying that at "normal" defense range they don't even need sights. I have in my life seen a VERY few REALLY good shots who did not need sights. The normal thing I see with people who tell me this is when we get to a range they can't stay on paper. Paper that is not moving and is not shooting back. So to each his own.
I can't shoot well enough to want to trust myself with no sights. As eyes have aged I want all the help I can get. So I LOVE optics, laser's, and lights. LONG before weapon lights were a thing I used home made cobbled together mounts to put a flashlight on a long gun. Both for going after critters that were trying to get at our chickens and so that if dogs told me "something is out there", I could see what it was BEFORE firing at it in the dark. Now many don't like this and for me? Who cares. I have had this conversation a few times with a young co worker who just got his CC permit and a nice hand gun. I tell him to remember that if he uses his pistol he is going to be held accountable for every round that leaves that gun.

 

[DirectDrive]

So much not answered in that comment. What kind of light? An actual WML grade beam or a little AAA firefly light? What was the environment? Indoors? Outside? What was the range? Under 10 feet, more than 30 yards?

If this was a suspect hunt I am assuming this is an outdoor scenario where ranges would exceed the effective range of the light, or offer angels that a super-bright light cannot fully cover. Those are indeed the exact situations where a light can be a liability. They are also not the type of situation you will find in most home defense scenarios, and so would not be applicable to such a discussion.

There's enough there.
The message is, if you want the convenience of a WML there is risk if you are on a two-way range.
No two ways about it.

 

[Capn Jack]

If something goes, "Bump" in the night,
The three things I reach for are:
1. Glasses
2. Pistol with a mounted lazer
3. High intensity flashlight set on strobe.