Texas Shooting

[Flopsweat]

I didn't read all 140 posts, but I did search the thread for "tatum" so this video probably hasn't been posted in this thread. Officer Tatum has some interesting information here. The first 15 minutes of the video are very informative and then after a while he gets a bit repetitive. I've found him to be a pretty straightforward guy.

 

[Alexx1401]

I didn't read all 140 posts, but I did search the thread for "tatum" so this video probably hasn't been posted in this thread. Officer Tatum has some interesting information here. The first 15 minutes of the video are very informative and then after a while he gets a bit repetitive. I've found him to be a pretty straightforward guy.

Color me VERY skeptical. He kept saying they were dealing with a barricaded subject not an active shooter. Yet he keeps saying the guy was still shooting at the Cops. I listened to him talk in this circle for a while and gave up. Did not change my opinion of how this was handled.

 

[Flopsweat]

Color me VERY skeptical. He kept saying they were dealing with a barricaded subject not an active shooter. Yet he keeps saying the guy was still shooting at the Cops. I listened to him talk in this circle for a while and gave up. Did not change my opinion of how this was handled.

That's the difference. An active shooter is actively shooting at citizens. A barricaded subject has a barrier between himself and LE and can be shooting or not shooting at LE. Apparently, he shot the children early on, and then shot at LE sporadically while they gathered the tools necessary to breach the doors. If they're anything like our school security doors, you can't easily kick them in. You don't stand in a kill zone repeatedly kicking a door that's not going to open anyway.

None of this is to say that they did well. I don't think we know that at this point. It is however, starting to look like the news stories were (unsurprisingly) less than accurate.

 

[Alexx1401]

That's the difference. An active shooter is actively shooting at citizens. A barricaded subject has a barrier between himself and LE and can be shooting or not shooting at LE. Apparently, he shot the children early on, and then shot at LE sporadically while they gathered the tools necessary to breach the doors. If they're anything like our school security doors, you can't easily kick them in. You don't stand in a kill zone repeatedly kicking a door that's not going to open anyway.

None of this is to say that they did well. I don't think we know that at this point. It is however, starting to look like the news stories were (unsurprisingly) less than accurate.

If the LEO's are trying to say they new all the kids in those rooms were dead? Great, so in that case why risk going in. I would like to know how they know all the kids were dead so it was time to stand there for an hour waiting for him to run out of ammo. Sorry, I do not believe them.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

That's the difference. An active shooter is actively shooting at citizens. A barricaded subject has a barrier between himself and LE and can be shooting or not shooting at LE. Apparently, he shot the children early on, and then shot at LE sporadically while they gathered the tools necessary to breach the doors. If they're anything like our school security doors, you can't easily kick them in. You don't stand in a kill zone repeatedly kicking a door that's not going to open anyway.

None of this is to say that they did well. I don't think we know that at this point. It is however, starting to look like the news stories were (unsurprisingly) less than accurate.

My understanding from the official police report is that the POS bloated sack "commander" stopped the police who entered 2 minutes after the shooter (through the same door). He also stopped the 16 other police who followed. He also stopped the feds.

Also while the POS coward commander was holding everyone back, little girl called 911 several times including reporting that 9 kids were still alive.

 

[Flopsweat]

If the LEO's are trying to say they new all the kids in those rooms were dead? Great, so in that case why risk going in. I would like to know how they know all the kids were dead so it was time to stand there for an hour waiting for him to run out of ammo. Sorry, I do not believe them.

Where did you see that? I missed that.

 

[Flopsweat]

My understanding from the official police report is that the POS bloated sack "commander" stopped the police who entered 2 minutes after the shooter (through the same door). He also stopped the 14 others who followed. He also stopped the feds.

Also while the POS coward commander was holding everyone back, little girl called 911 several times including reporting that 9 kids were still alive.

Tatum is saying that's not true. He's not prone to lying. I'm saying here's his viewpoint. I don't personally know who's telling the truth, and I don't expect to know for several months, if ever.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Tatum is saying that's not true. He's not prone to lying. I'm saying here's his viewpoint. I don't personally know who's telling the truth, and I don't expect to know for several months, if ever.

I call BS on that. Why would police lie about there own officers screwing up royally. That makes zero sense. If they were going to lie they would say the opposite or make up excuses/spin it. I have no idea who this Tatum person is.

 

[Alexx1401]

Where did you see that? I missed that.

The difference to me between "active shooter" and "barricaded shooter"

"An active shooter is actively shooting at citizens. A barricaded subject has a barrier between himself and LE and can be shooting or not shooting at LE. Apparently, he shot the children early on, and then shot at LE sporadically while they gathered the tools necessary to breach the doors."

So they "thought" he had already shot the kids? Early on? If the LEO's are saying they somehow knew this? Fine. Since I doubt they did it to me is still horrific that they stood there and did nothing with the excuse they could not get past the locked door. I am VERY big on backing the blue but, this one leaves me feeling like a lot of Cops should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Flopsweat]

The difference to me between "active shooter" and "barricaded shooter"

"An active shooter is actively shooting at citizens. A barricaded subject has a barrier between himself and LE and can be shooting or not shooting at LE. Apparently, he shot the children early on, and then shot at LE sporadically while they gathered the tools necessary to breach the doors."

So they "thought" he had already shot the kids? Early on? If the LEO's are saying they somehow knew this? Fine. Since I doubt they did it to me is still horrific that they stood there and did nothing with the excuse they could not get past the locked door. I am VERY big on backing the blue but, this one leaves me feeling like a lot of Cops should be ashamed of themselves.

I never in there said that all of the kids were dead, nor that the LEOs thought that. I posted a video and said this is the guy's take on it. Watch the video if you want, or don't. You're always welcome to believe whatever you want but don't put words in my mouth. I have repeatedly said that I don't know what really happened here.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

This article gives a good breakdown of the timeline:

What we know, minute by minute, about how the Uvalde shooting and police response unfolded

State officials provided a timeline of the massacre and have corrected crucial details amid public demands for information on how authorities handled the situation.

www.texastribune.org

 

[ma96782]

A certain news media outlet......likes to advertise that their News is about telling the TRUTH.

Rrrrrright........and the narrative has changed. How many times?

Aloha, Mark

 

[jjfitch]

SHOTS FIRED ON THE PREMISIS OR WITHIN AN OCCUPIED SCHOOL MEANS THE FIRST RESOPNDERS HAVE A DUTY TO MAKE EVERY REASONABLE (within their training and ability) ATTEMPT TO ELIMINAE THE THREAT! PERIOD!!!

The fact that the on-site commander changed the scenario, he reversed all the training since Columbine After Action Report is an unspeakably, irresponsible mistake and I hope he is held accountable!

"The police response to Columbine was heavily criticized at the time, leading to a drastic change in active shooter incident response nationwide. Immediate action rapid deployment (IARD) tactics replaced scene containment, leading to departments training and equipping personnel for solo officer response."

(Immediate action rapid deployment (IARD) is a police tactic where first responders, typically regular officers, actively confront a developing high-risk crisis!)

I pray for the families and hope that first responders everywhere recognize their responsibility and get to use their IARD training and experience to do their job despite the lack of awareness of the onsite supervisor!

Yes, I'm a retired LEO!

 

[jjfitch]

I'm pretty pro LEO, but you gotta call a spade a spade, imcoptance and cowards.Little kids getting gun down, and you stand around with your fingers up your azz, pathetic. I watched that so called sheriff giving a update, I wonder who`s friend he is to get that job, ill stop now before my head explodes.

SHOTS FIRED ON THE PREMISIS OR WITHIN AN OCCUPIED SCHOOL MEANS THE FIRST RESOPNDERS HAVE A DUTY TO MAKE EVERY REASONABLE (within their training and ability) ATTEMPT TO ELIMINAE THE THREAT! PERIOD!!!

The fact that the on-site commander changed the scenario, and have the on site team stand down, reversed all the training since Columbine After Action Report is an unspeakably, irresponsible mistake and I hope he is held accountable!

"The police response to Columbine was heavily criticized at the time, leading to a drastic change in active shooter incident response nationwide. Immediate action rapid deployment (IARD) tactics replaced scene containment, leading to departments training and equipping personnel for solo officer response."

(Immediate action rapid deployment (IARD) is a police tactic where first responders, typically regular officers, actively confront a developing high-risk crisis!)

I pray for the families and hope that first responders everywhere recognize their responsibility and get to use their IARD training and experience to do their job despite the lack of awareness of the onsite supervisor!

Yes, I'm a retired LEO!

 

[ma96782]

Training and tactics changed after Columbine.

BUT, But, but......even then and now......no one was/is immune to answering to "the politics of the decisions." Taken or not taken.

Yup......
Monday morning quarterbacking seems to be always in vogue.

_______________
_______________

RE:

The "commander" was just elected to the city council days before so he knows he is on the police job for just a very short time. Did this play onto his weakness and cowardice I wonder?

Well/maybe he was already thinking about his.....

Re-election?

Aloha, Mark

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Well/maybe he was already thinking about his.....

Re-election?

Aloha, Mark

Not likely seeing as he had already won a seat on the city council

Uvalde Police Chief Who Made 'Wrong Call' on Shooting Joining City Council

Peter Arredondo was elected to the Uvalde City Council just three weeks before the mass shooting, after running on a platform of communication and outreach.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Bobbygun]

Not likely seeing as he had already won a seat on the city council

Uvalde Police Chief Who Made 'Wrong Call' on Shooting Joining City Council

Peter Arredondo was elected to the Uvalde City Council just three weeks before the mass shooting, after running on a platform of communication and outreach.

www.newsweek.com

No. I think he's right. The day those bubblegummers get elected, they start working on getting reelected (and very little good else).

 

[ma96782]

No. I think he's right. The day those bubblegummers get elected, they start working on getting reelected (and very little good else).

Aloha, Mark

 

[Josh89]

 

[jjfitch]

View attachment 1210186

SHOTS FIRED ON THE PREMISIS OR WITHIN AN OCCUPIED SCHOOL MEANS THE FIRST RESOPNDERS HAVE A DUTY TO MAKE EVERY REASONABLE (within their training and ability) ATTEMPT TO ELIMINAE THE THREAT! PERIOD!!!

The fact that the on-site commander changed the scenario, he reversed all the training since Columbine After Action Report is an unspeakably, irresponsible mistake and I hope he is held accountable!

"The police response to Columbine was heavily criticized at the time, leading to a drastic change in active shooter incident response nationwide. Immediate action rapid deployment (IARD) tactics replaced scene containment, leading to departments training and equipping personnel for solo officer response."

(Immediate action rapid deployment (IARD) is a police tactic where first responders, typically regular officers, actively confront a developing high-risk crisis!)

I pray for the families and hope that first responders everywhere recognize their responsibility and get to use their IARD training and experience to do their job despite the lack of awareness of the onsite supervisor!

Yes, I'm a retired LEO!