Texas Shooting

[K-22]

First of all let me state unequivocally, that no one has more respect fo first responders than I do.
That being said, I would be very interested in knowing the quantity and quality of the training the first responders have had over the last 24-36 months.
Based on the most recent reports, I feel the responders may be missing some of the tools (quality training and education) that they need to perform their jobs at the highest levels.
Best,
Gary

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[American123]

What kind of training would you advise police to have to deal with a scenario that is "terrible and shocking," but statitically extremely rare compared to other criminal activity they face on a daily basis?

This isn't a police issue in my opinion, they aren't supermen. This is a political issue where politicians continue to demand teachers be bullet sponges for students instead of being able to return fire, which WOULD actually be a deterrent and likely save lives either reactively by killing these POS who try this, or proactively by these POS not trying it because they know people are armed.

 

[K-22]

What kind of training would you advise police to have to deal with a scenario that is "terrible and shocking," but statitically extremely rare compared to other criminal activity they face on a daily basis?

This isn't a police issue in my opinion, they aren't supermen. This is a political issue where politicians continue to demand teachers be bullet sponges for students instead of being able to return fire, which WOULD actually be a deterrent and likely save lives either reactively by killing these POS who try this, or proactively by these POS not trying it because they know people are armed.

Lacking information on their training, it would be presumptuous to respond to your question.
Best,
Gary

 

[American123]

Lacking information on their training, it would be presumptuous to respond to your question.
Best,
Gary

That's a dodge. I didn't ask about how they are already trained. I asked what kind of training YOU would advise they have.

 

[Member 53328]

What kind of training would you advise police to have to deal with a scenario that is "terrible and shocking," but statitically extremely rare compared to other criminal activity they face on a daily basis?

This isn't a police issue in my opinion, they aren't supermen. This is a political issue where politicians continue to demand teachers be bullet sponges for students instead of being able to return fire, which WOULD actually be a deterrent and likely save lives either reactively by killing these POS who try this, or proactively by these POS not trying it because they know people are armed.

If it's true that the shooter was in the building for 45min to an hour without being confronted then this is 100% a police issue. I don't know all the facts at this point but if I had a child at that school and the police just waited outside for a more "experienced" team to show up there would be hell to pay.

 

[American123]

If it's true that the shooter was in the building for 45min to an hour without being confronted then this is 100% a police issue. I don't know all the facts at this point but if I had a child at that school and the police just waited outside for a more "experienced" team to show up there would be hell to pay.

Here's what we know:

Police are people.

Here's something else we know:

People are fallible.

Police spend their average day dealing with drunks, punks, disorderly, domestic and traffic issues and drugs. It's rare for a policeman to be involved in a shooting incident, very rare. It's even more extremely rare for a police to be involved in a shooting incident where the criminal is armed with something that "outguns" the pistols they typically carry. It's even more extremely rare for police to be responding to an ongoing mass shooter event.

So again, my question remains, how would you advise police be trained to respond to a multiple times compounded extremely rare scenario so that it overcomes their instinct to possibly clam up and freeze and wait until they felt they had sufficient advantage to act?

They are not the Marines, they are not trained to run toward high rates of gunfire and kill the enemy with extreme prejudice.

Here's what I know - there's a lot of blame circling around and it all rests entirely on the person who made multiple decisions that culminated in murdering almost 20 people, including many children. Re-hashing how to respond better to a situation is fine, but at the end of the day it has already been ruled in court that police have no duty to protect people so acting like they do is pointless.

If we are going to throw around blame, throw it at politicians who continue to hamstring teachers and use laws to bar them from legally defending themselves.

 

[K-22]

That's a dodge. I didn't ask about how they are already trained. I asked what kind of training YOU would advise they have.

That's a dodge. I didn't ask about how they are already trained. I asked what kind of training YOU would advise they have.

Dodge?
Unlike some, I refrain from proffering my opinion until I have the facts of the matter at available.
Best,
Gary

 

[American123]

Dodge?
Unlike some, I refrain from proffering my opinion until I have the facts of the matter at available.
Best,
Gary

"Based on the most recent reports, I feel the responders may be missing some of the tools (quality training and education) that they need to perform their jobs at the highest levels."

You feel they may be missing something. So do tell, what do you feel they are missing?

 

[Member 53328]

"They are not the Marines, they are not trained to run toward high rates of gunfire and kill the enemy with extreme prejudice."

You're telling me that cops aren't trained to run toward gunfire during an ACTIVE shooter? That hasn't been my experience….

 

[American123]

"They are not the Marines, they are not trained to run toward high rates of gunfire and kill the enemy with extreme prejudice."

You're telling me that cops aren't trained to run toward gunfire during an ACTIVE shooter? That hasn't been my experience….

I'm saying that since most police experience predominately peaceful(ish) day to day jobs without severe violence. Getting them over the psychological hurdle to thrust themselves toward someone dishing out extreme violence will cause some people to clam up and wait for "more people" to make them feel kore comfortable.

I think that training and reality are two different things. Even if they have "training" it doesn't mean that when the chips are down that they will in fact perform that way.

This isn't a dig at cops, it's a dig at humans in general who respond to high stress situations in different ways and not all of them are the way they trained/planned.

The reason I reference the Marines is that they are very much trained to kill. That is their purpose, to kill the enemy and often at their own peril.

Police are seemingly trained to do their best to survive while enforcing the law in a relatively peaceful society where most people they interact with listen to them. This isn't to say that they don't put down violent people often enough, but most officers are not "that guy" to breach on an entrenched shooter.

Edit:

Mom Briefly Handcuffed For Urging Cops To Enter School, Then Rushed In To Save Her Kids: Report | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

Mom ran in and got her own kids while police were outside not breeching. This is what I am referring to. It's an attitude and values issue that training to be "law enforcement" may not change.

The mom valued her kids lives more than her own. She was willing to risk her own life to try and save theirs. The police by contrast were not willing to do that as haphazardly as she was. They did not value the children's lives more than their own. Eventually a team lead by some type of "higher trained" border guy breeched the building and took out the shooter. This reiterates my points I've made previously how most police are not "that guy."

 

[Member 53328]

I'm saying that since most police experience predominately peaceful(ish) day to day jobs without severe violence. Getting them over the psychological hurdle to thrust themselves toward someone dishing out extreme violence will cause some people to clam up and wait for "more people" to make them feel kore comfortable.

I think that training and reality are two different things. Even if they have "training" it doesn't mean that when the chips are down that they will in fact perform that way.

This isn't a dig at cops, it's a dig at humans in general who respond to high stress situations in different ways and not all of them are the way they trained/planned.

I love and respect LE but this is a problem. Whether it be the guy at parkland standing outside or these cops just waiting… something has to change. You swear an oath, if you are unwilling or unable to fulfill your commitment to the community you serve then you should go elsewhere.

There are amazing men and women who go to war daily for our communities. Thank goodness for the BP agent to put an end to the shooting. Like you I am not trying to dig at police. But training, scenarios, fitness, gear, etc. need to be drilled over and over until it's second nature.

Being a cop is not just a job. It's not just a paycheck. It's a responsibility.

I also understand that you don't know what you will truly do until you are faced with a scenario. But you can train to be as prepared as you possibly can be for the issue if it arises.

 

[American123]

I love and respect LE but this is a problem. Whether it be the guy at parkland standing outside or these cops just waiting… something has to change. You swear an oath, if you are unwilling or unable to fulfill your commitment to the community you serve then you should go elsewhere.

There are amazing men and women who go to war daily for our communities. Thank goodness for the BP agent to put an end to the shooting. Like you I am not trying to dig at police. But training, scenarios, fitness, gear, etc. need to be drilled over and over until it's second nature.

Being a cop is not just a job. It's not just a paycheck. It's a responsibility.

I also understand that you don't know what you will truly do until you are faced with a scenario. But you can train to be as prepared as you possibly can be for the issue if it arises.

That's the thing. How many people take the job mentally prepared to be in a scenario where they are facing high rates of gun fire aimed at their person?

It reminds me of the Army reserve folks who finally get called up after years of getting paid to train 1 weekend a month and two weeks a year and then are ideologically opposed to whatever reason they are being called up for because they weren't seriously considering that was a possibility.


Edit:
I don't know how to get cops trained to be the peacekeepers they are supposed to be on a daily basis and also be able to flip a switch and be that hard charging ground pounder for that 1-off scenario they will likely never see in their career. I think that's more of a personal attitude than a training thing.

 

[Member 53328]

That's the thing. How many people take the job mentally prepared to be in a scenario where they are facing high rates of gun fire aimed at their person?

It reminds me of the Army reserve folks who finally get called up after years of getting paid to train 1 weekend a month and two weeks a year and then are ideologically opposed to whatever reason they are being called up for because they weren't seriously considering that was a possibility.

I think we are basically expressing the same thing… just in a different way. But I agree with you. I think there needs to be a specific mentality in regards to certain scenarios when your LE.

 

[American123]

I think we are basically expressing the same thing… just in a different way. But I agree with you. I think there needs to be a specific mentality in regards to certain scenarios when your LE.

That would go against the push to have an inclusive and diverse police force which has been prioritized for years.

 

[Member 53328]

That would go against the push to have an inclusive and diverse police force which has been prioritized for years.

Oh the voters are definitely witnessing the consequences of their actions.

 

[American123]

Oh the voters are definitely witnessing the consequences of their actions.

That's the thing, they don't even know they are witnessing the consequences of their actions…

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

This was another Columbine/Parkland "Lets wait until it is safe to go in" situation.

 

[jjfitch]

That's the thing. How many people take the job mentally prepared to be in a scenario where they are facing high rates of gun fire aimed at their person?

It reminds me of the Army reserve folks who finally get called up after years of getting paid to train 1 weekend a month and two weeks a year and then are ideologically opposed to whatever reason they are being called up for because they weren't seriously considering that was a possibility.


Edit:
I don't know how to get cops trained to be the peacekeepers they are supposed to be on a daily basis and also be able to flip a switch and be that hard charging ground pounder for that 1-off scenario they will likely never see in their career. I think that's more of a personal attitude than a training thing.

1: The shooter shot his grandmother
2: She called 911
3: The shooter went directly to the school and was engaged by an SRO
4: The shooter entered the school through an unlocked door
5: Shots were heard from within the school (active shooter!)
6: Police made no effort to "take down" the shooter
7: On site LEO's didn't follow their own protocols for an active shooter claiming it was a hostage situation.

What a "5hit show"!

Full disclosure I'm a retired LEO!

But none of these facts matter to the liberal media, The View of RINOs!

Blame the gun! Dismantle the 2A and our God given right to self protection.

So begins the usurpation of our Bill of Rights and individual rights it guarantees!

Pray for our leaders to make this a LEO/school issue and not a 2A issue!

 

[STEELE]

What do schools in Israel do to protect their students?

 

[American123]

1: The shooter shot his grandmother
2: She called 911
3: The shooter went directly to the school and was engaged by an SRO
4: The shooter entered the school through an unlocked door
5: Shots were heard from within the school (active shooter!)
6: Police made no effort to "take down" the shooter
7: On site LEO's didn't follow their own protocols for an active shooter claiming it was a hostage situation.

What a "5hit show"!

Full disclosure I'm a retired LEO!

But none of these facts matter to the liberal media, The View of RINOs!

Blame the gun! Dismantle the 2A and our God given right to self protection.

So begins the usurpation of our Bill of Rights and individual rights it guarantees!

Pray for our leaders to make this a LEO/school issue and not a 2A issue!

How was the killer "engaged by the SRO" ?