Texas Shooting

[jjfitch]

American123

Seattle
"Numbers are facts… personal observations are anecdotal when referencing 3/10000 of a group. I'm kind of wondering at this point if you even know what those numbers represent since you seemed to casually dismiss them as if they meant nothing and were taken aback that I suggested your deductions based on such a limited set of data were faulty. If you were personally offended by my statements that would fall into the category of "facts don't care about your feelings."

The numbers I recognize are the numbers of teachers and the national teacher's union that want to defund the police and dismantle the Bill of Rights!

"The law is what determines what legally is allowed to happens at schools, not the marxist teacher groups, not the bloated administration or school board.

It is an RCW (revised code of Washington) that applies a gun free zone at schools in Washington state. If lawmakers changed that law, teachers/admins could carry at schools."

I will submit that the liberal teachers and unions were a factor in getting the RCW submitted and approved!

"It is true, the education system is rampant with socialists/marxists and liberals (that was redundant), but they are not 100% of teachers.
If it was made legal to carry on school grounds you'd see immediately some teachers doing that, and over time you'd see more teachers become more acclimated to the idea and do that as well."

Of course that's a stat I can get behind!

"FYI, indoctrination occurs at private schools as well, it can occur in any school because individual teachers can and often supplement their lessons with material that they want their students to learn outside of the regular curriculum. This can be used for "good" or "bad." For example, I have a friend whose child attended a local charter school during the covid/zoom school time period, and according to my friend, this teacher spent the first several weeks talking about her tranny life and her top surgery that she had done but that the bottom surgery was more expensive and she had to save for that."

Yup, our grandkids were indoctrinated in the Christian faith at their private school. Pick accordingly!


" Comparatively, I like to teach students about personal finance, applying logic and deductive reasoning, and the bill of rights/constitution even though none of that is specifically in the curriculum either."

Yup, I'm an American History nerd and agree! Especially about the Constitution and Bill of Rights!

What I saw in attempting to get fast tracked into teaching when to program was offered to retiring executives was very disappointing. For the most part, teachers have been to grade school. junior high school, high school, and 2-4 years of higher learning to get certified. These same people have
very little in the ways of life skills or experiences that weren't spoon fed to them. Therefore lacking the critical thinking skills that you mentioned.

Unfortunately, as a nation, we are at a cross roads and may have to choose between restrictive gun ownership and hardening schools to appease the left I'm sure some crazy crap is coming that we haven't thought of. If compromise means arming teachers I'm all for it.

I'm not going to hold my breath despite your stats! As they say "the proof is in the puddin"!

 

[penny2017]

I wonder if "flash bangs" would've helped? I know this is hindsight but what if each squad car carried a couple of them.
I just read an article about arming teachers and the majority of teachers don't want to carry a firearm.

 

[Flopsweat]

I wonder if "flash bangs" would've helped? I know this is hindsight but what if each squad car carried a couple of them.
I just read an article about arming teachers and the majority of teachers don't want to carry a firearm.

Training, Tactics and Testicles.

 

[American123]

American123

Seattle
"Numbers are facts… personal observations are anecdotal when referencing 3/10000 of a group. I'm kind of wondering at this point if you even know what those numbers represent since you seemed to casually dismiss them as if they meant nothing and were taken aback that I suggested your deductions based on such a limited set of data were faulty. If you were personally offended by my statements that would fall into the category of "facts don't care about your feelings."

The numbers I recognize are the numbers of teachers and the national teacher's union that want to defund the police and dismantle the Bill of Rights!

"The law is what determines what legally is allowed to happens at schools, not the marxist teacher groups, not the bloated administration or school board.

It is an RCW (revised code of Washington) that applies a gun free zone at schools in Washington state. If lawmakers changed that law, teachers/admins could carry at schools."

I will submit that the liberal teachers and unions were a factor in getting the RCW submitted and approved!

"It is true, the education system is rampant with socialists/marxists and liberals (that was redundant), but they are not 100% of teachers.
If it was made legal to carry on school grounds you'd see immediately some teachers doing that, and over time you'd see more teachers become more acclimated to the idea and do that as well."

Of course that's a stat I can get behind!

"FYI, indoctrination occurs at private schools as well, it can occur in any school because individual teachers can and often supplement their lessons with material that they want their students to learn outside of the regular curriculum. This can be used for "good" or "bad." For example, I have a friend whose child attended a local charter school during the covid/zoom school time period, and according to my friend, this teacher spent the first several weeks talking about her tranny life and her top surgery that she had done but that the bottom surgery was more expensive and she had to save for that."

Yup, our grandkids were indoctrinated in the Christian faith at their private school. Pick accordingly!


" Comparatively, I like to teach students about personal finance, applying logic and deductive reasoning, and the bill of rights/constitution even though none of that is specifically in the curriculum either."

Yup, I'm an American History nerd and agree! Especially about the Constitution and Bill of Rights!

What I saw in attempting to get fast tracked into teaching when to program was offered to retiring executives was very disappointing. For the most part, teachers have been to grade school. junior high school, high school, and 2-4 years of higher learning to get certified. These same people have
very little in the ways of life skills or experiences that weren't spoon fed to them. Therefore lacking the critical thinking skills that you mentioned.

Unfortunately, as a nation, we are at a cross roads and may have to choose between restrictive gun ownership and hardening schools to appease the left I'm sure some crazy crap is coming that we haven't thought of. If compromise means arming teachers I'm all for it.

I'm not going to hold my breath despite your stats! As they say "the proof is in the puddin"!

I read your response, to re-articulate my position, I think teachers should have the option to carry. If there needs to be additional trainings or protocols to make that a reality so be it, for example, if they could pass whatever you had to pass to be a cop, I'm not seeing a valid argument why they wouldn't be able to at that point.

If your viewpoint is different than that, that teachers should not be able to carry, I would encourage you to evaluate which of our arguments promotes liberty.

 

[Flopsweat]

I read your response, to re-articulate my position, I think teachers should have the option to carry. If there needs to be additional trainings or protocols to make that a reality so be it, for example, if they could pass whatever you had to pass to be a cop, I'm not seeing a valid argument why they wouldn't be able to at that point.

If your viewpoint is different than that, that teachers should not be able to carry, I would encourage you to evaluate which of our arguments promotes liberty.

They can't all be incapable.

 

[American123]

I wonder if "flash bangs" would've helped? I know this is hindsight but what if each squad car carried a couple of them.
I just read an article about arming teachers and the majority of teachers don't want to carry a firearm.

It doesn't matter if a majority of those who responded, wanted to or not. What matters is that if it were an option, some would, and those some could make a difference.

 

[American123]

They can't all be incapable.

Exactly - that's my point. The stereotypical viewpoint of a teacher is some white, middle aged liberal woman. It's true, there are lots of those, but there are also teachers that are already very capable with firearms. You just won't see them in the news because why would they blast that information and put a target on their back for the extremely left leaning education system.

And you know what, even middle aged women can pull a trigger and be taught to hit a 8 inch pie plate at 20 feet if they want to be, so the notion that teachers are incapable of being their own first responders is asinine.

The two women who were shot dead trying to shield the students in Texas, I bet if they could come back to life and answer the question, "would you have liked to be able to shoot that guy instead of being a meat shield?" They would likely say, "yes."

 

[jjfitch]

I read your response, to re-articulate my position, I think teachers should have the option to carry. If there needs to be additional trainings or protocols to make that a reality so be it, for example, if they could pass whatever you had to pass to be a cop, I'm not seeing a valid argument why they wouldn't be able to at that point.

If your viewpoint is different than that, that teachers should not be able to carry, I would encourage you to evaluate which of our arguments promotes liberty.

The 2A is the only gun control we need. I support the notion that teachers could be armed based on the 2A but dis mangling the 2A is incompatible with teachers being armed. But they'll figure a way to have it both ways!

 

[Bobbygun]

Exactly - that's my point. The stereotypical viewpoint of a teacher is some white, middle aged liberal woman. It's true, there are lots of those, but there are also teachers that are already very capable with firearms. You just won't see them in the news because why would they blast that information and put a target on their back for the extremely left leaning education system.

I have to plead guilty here on the "stereotypical viewpoint". One of my wife's co-workers epitomized that viewpoint and I ASSUMED she would be in favor of a gun free school zone and against owning semi-auto firearms. While discussing this thread with my wife, she told me "Oh no, not ________. She has her CHL."
I guess you just can't tell who might be pro-gun. I was waaaaaay off base on this person. There may be more allies out there than we realize.

 

[arakboss]

The shooter is obviously responsible but sometimes other factors can be responsible. Let's say your husband forgets to shut the garage door one night and thieves clean out your garage. Sure the thieves are responsible but did the fact that the door was left wide open make it more likely that your stuff was stolen? I would say yes. There always seems to be plenty of blame to go around.

 

[Will_White]

I have to plead guilty here on the "stereotypical viewpoint". One of my wife's co-workers epitomized that viewpoint and I ASSUMED she would be in favor of a gun free school zone and against owning semi-auto firearms. While discussing this thread with my wife, she told me "Oh no, not ________. She has her CHL."
I guess you just can't tell who might be pro-gun. I was waaaaaay off base on this person. There may be more allies out there than we realize.

If we don't alienate them.

 

[jjfitch]

I have to plead guilty here on the "stereotypical viewpoint". One of my wife's co-workers epitomized that viewpoint and I ASSUMED she would be in favor of a gun free school zone and against owning semi-auto firearms. While discussing this thread with my wife, she told me "Oh no, not ________. She has her CHL."
I guess you just can't tell who might be pro-gun. I was waaaaaay off base on this person. There may be more allies out there than we realize.

Don't be fooled by the fact a person has a CHL that they are automatically pro 2A. There is a national association of police cheifs that want you to turn in your guns!

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

I read your response, to re-articulate my position, I think teachers should have the option to carry. If there needs to be additional trainings or protocols to make that a reality so be it, for example, if they could pass whatever you had to pass to be a cop, I'm not seeing a valid argument why they wouldn't be able to at that point.

If your viewpoint is different than that, that teachers should not be able to carry, I would encourage you to evaluate which of our arguments promotes liberty.

I would think we would need an agreed upon definition of "liberty" before we could do that and I am just as sure that almost everyone would start that conversation believing that their definition was the correct one

 

[jjfitch]

I would think we would need an agreed upon definition of "liberty" before we could do that and I am just as sure that almost everyone would start that conversation believing that their definition was the correct one

Our basic liberties are enumerated in the Bill of Rights. Just like the Constitution allows the central government certain things.

 

[American123]

I would think we would need an agreed upon definition of "liberty" before we could do that and I am just as sure that almost everyone would start that conversation believing that their definition was the correct one

Freedom to have additional options even if other people disagree - how about that as a starting point.

 

[Member 3687]

He got the money from his job at Wendy's

Many folks do not remember that if the Wendy's was closed or his hours where cut due to covid his un-employment would or at least could get him 300 more a week from the FEDS.

My friends kid was working 2 days a week at a local burger shop and got laid off for a short bit and they made more money from un-employment per week than he did in two weeks of working.

The fed money alone could have gotten him 1200 extra a month plus state un-employment just for getting his hours cut.

 

[arakboss]

Oh, and just spitballing here, we could adequately fund schools so classrooms weren't overcrowded (maybe even transition to a to hybrid inperson/remote learning that more closely reflects the work reality of the future), we could make sure students and teachers had all the supplies they needed and teachers/administrators/counselors had the tools time and and resources to actually help students that are experiencing any sort of crisis

I recall an article I read once by I think Massad Ayoob that discussed a police training program that asked officers "How many firearms are on each and every call you respond to?" The answer is "At least one" The numbers vary year to year, and training and security holster have helped reduce the numbers, but over time between 5% to 20% of officers killed by firearms each year are killed by their own or their partners firearm. If trained police officers with the best equipment can't do better than that, why on God's Green Earth would you think a minimally trained teacher would stand even the slightest chance?

For all the (rightful!) griefs our side gives Dem's for doing things based on 'feels' without actually addressing the actual causes of the problem, arming teachers is an appalling "I did nothing and now I'm all out of ideas" solution.

Yes more classrooms means your kid might have less chance of being one of the ones that get shot up. If the kids are like fish in a barrel (they are), then spreading them out should slow the rate of the massacre.

BTW, why did the kids fail to use their buckets of rocks to fight back?

 

[Member 3687]

Don't be fooled by the fact a person has a CHL that they are automatically pro 2A. There is a national association of police cheifs that want you to turn in your guns!

In our area most law enforcement do not have CHL/CWL.

Yes they can carry because of police ID but not buy a gun with out a back ground check as their police ID does not meet the background needs of NICS or the state. So from working in guns most folks with a valid CHL/CWL are pro 2A and that is why they did the extra step to get them.

Most Police Chiefs are appointed and not voted in by the people so they are politicians and have political agendas.

This is just my experience from dealing with the 2A public.

 

[Alexx1401]

Exactly - that's my point. The stereotypical viewpoint of a teacher is some white, middle aged liberal woman. It's true, there are lots of those, but there are also teachers that are already very capable with firearms. You just won't see them in the news because why would they blast that information and put a target on their back for the extremely left leaning education system.

And you know what, even middle aged women can pull a trigger and be taught to hit a 8 inch pie plate at 20 feet if they want to be, so the notion that teachers are incapable of being their own first responders is asinine.

The two women who were shot dead trying to shield the students in Texas, I bet if they could come back to life and answer the question, "would you have liked to be able to shoot that guy instead of being a meat shield?" They would likely say, "yes."

One constant with these "mass shootings". MANY of them survivors have mentioned teachers who died trying to shield students. Of course sadly those who died this way had nothing but their own life to use. Would be nice if those brave enough to be a bullet stop for some scum were able to have and know how to fight back. Keep hearing of armed Police who stand outside because they were told to do nothing while unarmed teachers soaked up rounds to protect kids. Give some of those brave ones a chance to use more than their own body to stop the scum.

 

[Alexx1401]

Many folks do not remember that if the Wendy's was closed or his hours where cut due to covid his un-employment would or at least could get him 300 more a week from the FEDS.

My friends kid was working 2 days a week at a local burger shop and got laid off for a short bit and they made more money from un-employment per week than he did in two weeks of working.

The fed money alone could have gotten him 1200 extra a month plus state un-employment just for getting his hours cut.

I had forgotten that even though I should remember. Since Wife and I worked during this whole hoax lock down. We worked some unreal hours due to how hard to it was to compete for workers. The gov was paying so well to sit home and do nothing that offering a job was a hard sell alright.